Weymouth LTC nightmare

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fencerforhire

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I was verbally approved for a class A with employment restrictions in Weymouth pending fingerprint check. Answered question 10 truthfully. Waited 35 days for my letter of acceptance. The firearms officer called me to say he was denying me because the fingerprint report said I was arrested for conspiracy to sell synthetic narcotics in Colorado in 1977 when I was 19.
I stated that while I recall being arrested for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, I was questioned and released with no formal charges and never had to appear in court! ( I was also apparently fingerprinted)
I had forgotten about the incident until that very phone call. The officer sent me a formal denial letter stating that I was denied because of the arrest and that I had lied on the application.
I contacted Colorado authorities and paid for my records proving my claims of innocence and mailed them to the firearms officer to clear my name. When I called him to see as to how proceed he stated that I perjured myself and would never get a permit. I stated my belief that I told the truth because question 10 clearly states to indicate all APPEARANCES BEFORE A COURT AS DEFENDANT FOR ANY CRIMINAL OFFENSES (excluding minor traffic offenses}. When I stated that I would appeal he said he would reserve his right to arrest me for perjury which he warned is a felony.
Its going to cost me thousands to fight this with no guarantees. Also, because of the denial, my name is flagged on background checks from here on out. All of this because of his interpretation of a crime I never committed, never went to court for, and one he never would have known about if the Colorado Police didn’t send my prints in for a crime I never committed 31 years ago when I was 19!
 
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Hopefully one of the lawyers on this forum will see your thread and you would be rather wise to adhere to their advice or retain their services. That situation sounds rather messy to be honest with you.

Good luck.
 
No weymouth is not red.The guy that hands them out is not a bad guy when I got mine.He also very rarely gives ALPs out.He told me that I needed a letter from my employer to get one.His name is BRIAN KING and the lawyers on this site know of him.From my conversation with him hes not going to be around to much longer he is going to retire soon.He was very polite with me but I hear he can be a prick sometimes.But you hear that about all cops once in a while.The thing is when he retires you could get someone worse!!!!Everybody down on the southshore is still jumping up and down with QUINCYs CHIEF CROWLEY stepping down.You would think it would get alot easier with that guy gone...
 
38specialD said:
No weymouth is not red.The guy that hands them out is not a bad guy when I got mine.He also very rarely gives ALPs out.He told me that I needed a letter from my employer to get one.His name is BRIAN KING and the lawyers on this site know of him.From my conversation with him hes not going to be around to much longer he is going to retire soon.He was very polite with me but I hear he can be a prick sometimes.But you hear that about all cops once in a while.The thing is when he retires you could get someone worse!!!!Everybody down on the southshore is still jumping up and down with QUINCYs CHIEF CROWLEY stepping down.You would think it would get alot easier with that guy gone...
Click to expand...

from what you describe, weymouth IS red
 
Weymouth is red. My brother inlaw had his ALP from quincy for over 10 years. MOved to Weymouth and was down graded. He was told first time applicants and new residents to weymouth will not get a ALP.
 
TOM-P said:
Weymouth is red. My brother inlaw had his ALP from quincy for over 10 years. MOved to Weymouth and was down graded. He was told first time applicants and new residents to weymouth will not get a ALP.
Click to expand...

and yet he got one in QUINCY???? what the eff?
 
My mistake.....I thought RED meant he would not give out LTCs period...If RED means he gives out LTC-CLASS-A with restrictions then WEYMOUTH is RED.Sorry my mistake...
 
"When I stated that I would appeal he said he would reserve his right to arrest me for perjury which he warned is a felony."

WOW!! That is a ridiculous statement for him to make.[rolleyes]

IF the paperwork from Colorado CLEARLY indicates that you were not arrested or charged with the crime I would suggest that you hire an attorney and excercise your right for appeal and not worry about a perjury charge.

Just curious though...How would you not have remembered being brought into a police station and fingerprinted on a drug offense??
 
I had focused on any court appearances, and I was totally clean in Colorado. I never
thought for a moment my prints would be on the national database, or I definitely
would have adressed it. Obviously a regrettable error on my part.
 
I was arrested, but after questioning and obviously being fingerprinted, I was released
and NEVER formally charged for any offense. That was the last I thought of it until that fateful phone call 31 YEARS later.
 
Call a lawyer. Cross-X and Scrivener are two that post here. Jesse Cohen is another I've heard about. You might want to join and contact GOAL and see what/who they might recommend.
 
fencerforhire said:
I was verbally approved for a class A with employment restrictions in Weymouth pending fingerprint check. Answered question 10 truthfully. Waited 35 days for my letter of acceptance. The firearms officer called me to say he was denying me because the fingerprint report said I was arrested for conspiracy to sell synthetic narcotics in Colorado in 1977 when I was 19.
I stated that while I recall being arrested for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, I was questioned and released with no formal charges and never had to appear in court! ( I was also apparently fingerprinted)
I had forgotten about the incident until that very phone call. The officer sent me a formal denial letter stating that I was denied because of the arrest and that I had lied on the application.
I contacted Colorado authorities and paid for my records proving my claims of innocence and mailed them to the firearms officer to clear my name. When I called him to see as to how proceed he stated that I perjured myself and would never get a permit. I stated my belief that I told the truth because question 10 clearly states to indicate all APPEARANCES BEFORE A COURT AS DEFENDANT FOR ANY CRIMINAL OFFENSES (excluding minor traffic offenses}. When I stated that I would appeal he said he would reserve his right to arrest me for perjury which he warned is a felony.
Its going to cost me thousands to fight this with no guarantees. Also, because of the denial, my name is flagged on background checks from here on out. All of this because of his interpretation of a crime I never committed, never went to court for, and one he never would have known about if the Colorado Police didn’t send my prints in for a crime I never committed 31 years ago when I was 19!
Click to expand...


Just curious, did you have an FID, LTC Class B or any other MA license before applying this time, or is this you first firearms application in MA?

Thanks
 
You really need to call a lawyer. If this guy is acting the way you describe he will not listen to you and you need someone who knows much more about this then us. A lawyer will know what to do, what your choices are and how to handle an LEO who think he is the law and not just a servant of it.

Of course the down side is it may cost you money, but sometimes a letter from a lawyer which should only cost $100 give or take might do the trick.

CALL A LAWYER!
 
Most, if not, other states question whether you have ever been denied a CCW permit when you apply. Now that you have, you can't get a CCW practically anywhere.

You need to lawyer up on this one.
 
Mikey said:
You really need to call a lawyer. If this guy is acting the way you describe he will not listen to you and you need someone who knows much more about this then us. A lawyer will know what to do, what your choices are and how to handle an LEO who think he is the law and not just a servant of it.

Of course the down side is it may cost you money, but sometimes a letter from a lawyer which should only cost $100 give or take might do the trick.

CALL A LAWYER!
Click to expand...

Isn't it only perjury if you KNOWINGLY lie? IIRC, the form asks if your statements are true to the best of your knowledge. In other words, the LEO can go eff himself for playing with you and misconstruing the law like that
 
At this point do not attempt to convince the LEO that he may be incorrect if his heels are dug into the ground.

Contact an attorney who is familiar with this type of situation.

Depending upon the circumstances surrounding the incident in Colorado there may also be the possibility that the issuing officer uses the "suitability" clause as a fall back.[frown]
 
I am sorry this happened to you. The get a lawyer advice is about the best you can do right now. You certainly aren't going to personally convince the issuing officer of anything at this point.

When I was getting ready to apply for my license, I consulted with an attorney and I still remember how hard he drilled one piece of information into me. He said remember back as hard and far as you can to every LEO contact you've ever had regardless of the disposition and bring it to their attention. He felt it would be bad if the PD found out anything I had not disclosed. When I pointed out that the question asks only about being a defendant in court, he pretty much said it doesn't matter what the question says.

So I did it and came up with a bunch of things dating back to around the age of 14. I listed all that on a separate piece of paper. On the question concerning being a defendant, I wrote, "See attached sheet".

I felt stupid writing all that little crap down, but I'm going to assume that it was good advice because I got my A.
 
Unfortunately, that refusal to grant a CCW permit problem is going to follow you around for the rest or your life, no matter what state you live in. It is best to appeal it now (during the normal appeals period). As part of the appeal, you may also wish to have your lawyer file to enjoin the police from attempting to apply for an arrest warrant due to that perjury claim. (I don’t know if this is permissible, but you may ask your lawyer.) Give them as big a black eye as possible; you have nothing to lose.

First thing, document everything you can about the communications between you and the police. Call a lawyer on Monday.
 
fencerforhire . . .

.

judge_bench.jpg
.
~ Ohhh, the pain! ~​


If it were I that was going through all this heartache, I’d think about collecting all the pertinent information and make an appointment with a lawyer that deals with this sort of thing. Many will give you a listen without charge or minimal charge.

I would ask the lawyer if he thought it reasonable to have him send the Chief a non-threatening letter stating all the difficulties that had transpired and state that you were abiding by the "letter of the law" and would he kindly peruse the information (about the arrest) and correct the “misunderstanding” with the permit officer before it has to be taken to litigation.

If the Chief is worth his salt he would realize the picayune nature of your being denied your permit and have a talk with the permit officer. The Chief should have this straightened out in short order, rather than have it dragged through the courts.

Just my two centavos worth. Oh, by the way, how’s that “Don’t Tread on Me” motto working out for you? [rolleyes]

Good luck in any case. Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!

.
 
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Perhaps finally

My appeal on the denial of my LTC-A ( 11/29/07) was resolved by negotiations with my lawyer and the counselor for the town of Weymouth at the urging of the Judge hearing the case.
I was required to submit another LTC application with the obligatory $100 fee
and interview again. I was approved with a " employment only restriction"
even though I thought i was cleared for no resrictions as applied for! Also, I must wait 6-8 weeks for final approval still!!!
I am told my only recourse is to appeal again (at considerable expense ).
I'm inclined to accept the restriction for know and reapply in a year or two (another $100),when hopefully there is a new CHOP and/or LEO, better to grab something rather than nothing in the fascist town of Weymouth...(still bitter)
 
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My appeal on the denial of my LTC-A ( 11/29/07) was resolved by negotiations with my lawyer and the counselor for the town of Weymouth at the urging of the Judge hearing the case.
I was required to submit another LTC application with the obligatory $100 fee
and interview again. I was approved with a " employment only restriction"
even though I thought i was cleared for no resrictions as applied for! Also, I must wait 6-8 weeks for final approval still!!!
I am told my only recourse is to appeal again (at considerable expense ).
I'm inclined to accept the restriction for know and reapply in a year or two (another $100),when hopefully there is a new CHOP and/or LEO, better to grab something rather than nothing in the fascist town of Weymouth...(still bitter)
 
Glad to hear you made some good progress...

One thing that has me scratching my head about all of this is the relative "ease" with which the CLEOs seem to cave in many instances once lawyers are involved (or if indeed the applicant is a lawyer in a RED town)?

Maybe its just anecdote vs poorly published statistics, but if they really had a leg to stand on and thought they had support in the courts, the law itself gives them pretty unchecked discretion... What's changing their mind?

To rephrase my confusion/question - why are the caving so quickly once pressed yet still denying people who don't show up with lawyers?

I guess more interestingly, what specific point of pressure are the lawyers applying that makes even disagreeable CLEOs come around?

I guess that's the secret sauce huh? Not going to get that for free... [wink]

Fortunately, I live in a town with a sane CLEO, but I understand that at some point in the future, that may not be the case without some progress on turning this state away from the rickety bridge with Ted at the wheel...
 
Half Cocked said:
Just curious though...How would you not have remembered being brought into a police station and fingerprinted on a drug offense??
Click to expand...


He was on drugs? [rofl]

Congrats on the getting it somewhat fixed, re-applying later on for ALP is the way to go, once that guy is gone.

They cave in once a lawyer shows up because the Chief can be personally sued if the reason for denial is not lawful, another words they must have proof of an act or unsuitability.

I have a fried that was denied because when he was 13 he was busted for having weed on him by the chief himself. That being a juvenile thing, was not supposed to have any bearing on his life now. He got his lawyer, got a court date, and the chief caved in, because he KNEW he was making his own rules. He did put a no-concealed restriction on it but he will do the same thing after a few years and he will apply for it again with no restrictions, with a letter from his lawyer.
 
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