Westminster R&G closed due to neighbor complaints

Rob Boudrie said:
As in "they though they would win and were therefore not interested in any negotiated compromise".

Everyone is interested in a "middle ground compromise" after their side loses.
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Honestly, **** them. They got what they deserve for being dickheads about this whole thing. It seems like they had multiple chances to negotiate a compromise but burned every bridge along the way. Time to make them pay by ratcheting up operations, imo.
 
amm5061 said:
Honestly, **** them. They got what they deserve for being dickheads about this whole thing. It seems like they had multiple chances to negotiate a compromise but burned every bridge along the way. Time to make them pay by ratcheting up operations, imo.
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*******
I guess they didn't want a compromise
 
There should be NO COMPROMISES on the part of the club. When you are 100% right, "compromising" means giving up your rights and getting NOTHING in return.

The club should definitely meet with the neighbors, but only in a court of law seeking damages for the club's costs/losses and a permanent restraining order on them!
 
Len-2A Training said:
There should be NO COMPROMISES on the part of the club. When you are 100% right, "compromising" means giving up your rights and getting NOTHING in return.

The club should definitely meet with the neighbors, but only in a court of law seeking damages for the club's costs/losses and a permanent restraining order on them!
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The time for compromise is when you are at a real risk of losing, and seek to minimize your exposure.

"Compromising" at this point would be like the DA agreeing to meet with a convict after the jury came in "guilty" to negotiate a plea.
 
Time for "round two" - Send a certified/return receipt letter to the developer and any listing real estate agent stating:

1. We exist, have a right to exist, and will continue to operate.
2. We request you inform all potential buyers of this as they may consider this a material factor in their decision

Also, modify the bylaw to have something like "5 years membership required to be eligible to run for office", and look out for abutters joining to effect change from within.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Time for "round two" - Send a certified/return receipt letter to the developer and any listing real estate agent stating:

1. We exist, have a right to exist, and will continue to operate.
2. We request you inform all potential buyers of this as they may consider this a material factor in their decision

Also, modify the bylaw to have something like "5 years membership required to be eligible to run for office", and look out for abutters joining to effect change from within.
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Excellent suggestions. I hope Club leadership is paying attention to the advice you and others have offered.
 
Len-2A Training said:
There should be NO COMPROMISES on the part of the club. When you are 100% right, "compromising" means giving up your rights and getting NOTHING in return.

The club should definitely meet with the neighbors, but only in a court of law seeking damages for the club's costs/losses and a permanent restraining order on them!
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******
I agree. I was talking about the neighbors, not the club. It appears the neighbors thought they could get the club to shut down and they failed.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
The time for compromise is when you are at a real risk of losing, and seek to minimize your exposure.

"Compromising" at this point would be like the DA agreeing to meet with a convict after the jury came in "guilty" to negotiate a plea.
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It's also worth noting that in the past the club has already "compromised" with locals, WRT the limiting of shooting activities between 10 am and Sunset. (I'm not sure if this stricture is still in place, it was when I was a member there, and it was explained to me that it was a concession the club made to keep the locals happy. )

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
It's also worth noting that in the past the club has already "compromised" with locals, WRT the limiting of shooting activities between 10 am and Sunset. (I'm not sure if this stricture is still in place, it was when I was a member there, and it was explained to me that it was a concession the club made to keep the locals happy. )

-Mike
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I believe that is only on Sundays now.
 
I highly doubt the decision was made in any interest in doing the "Right thing "
You have a board member, and neighbor who seems to be directly involved in a pending development.
I don't think that they expected the club to fight back as hard or garner the publicity it has.
I'm sure the last thing they want is the state breathing down their neck with ethics issues, open meeting violations and maybe watching closely for sketchy "Variances" and what not.
Roaches, they do hate the light.
The club does need to make sure to take measures to protect themselves from future asshattery .
Fences, posting and camera's would be a good start.
Posting and camera's for sure , even if it's a few game camera's to catch anyone digging in backstops for the bullets that will later be found on their property.
 
Glad to hear things are headed in the right direction and the members can shoot again. As others have said the club needs to make sure that these people are slapped down hard and that they can't pull this shit again.
 
Dadstoys said:
I highly doubt the decision was made in any interest in doing the "Right thing "
You have a board member, and neighbor who seems to be directly involved in a pending development.
I don't think that they expected the club to fight back as hard or garner the publicity it has.
I'm sure the last thing they want is the state breathing down their neck with ethics issues, open meeting violations and maybe watching closely for sketchy "Variances" and what not.
Roaches, they do hate the light.
The club does need to make sure to take measures to protect themselves from future asshattery .
Fences, posting and camera's would be a good start.
Posting and camera's for sure , even if it's a few game camera's to catch anyone digging in backstops for the bullets that will later be found on their property.
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Security cameras are a must for a gun club IMO. You cant go anywhere on my clubs ranges without being recorded. It's help solve a shit ton of "mysteries" and it definitely gets members to "behave". In the case if asshats neighbors ......they certainly wont be so likely to trespass with cameras everywhere.
 
Security cameras are a must for a gun club IMO. You cant go anywhere on my clubs ranges without being recorded. It's help solve a shit ton of "mysteries" and it definitely gets members to "behave". In the case if asshats neighbors ......they certainly wont be so likely to trespass with cameras everywhere.
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Which club?

I am in the process of adding cameras to the outdoor pistol ranges @ Hopkinton (already did the indoor pistol range and rifle range).
 
It's also worth noting that in the past the club has already "compromised" with locals, WRT the limiting of shooting activities between 10 am and Sunset
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Whenever limiting club activity for neighborly relations, it is important to document, document, document (certified letter to other parties).

A key part of documenting any limitation is something like "While this is our club's current policy, it is not a representation or contractual obligation that we will not alter out policies in the future, and the club explicitly retains the right to engage in all lawful activity." If you "agree" rather than "offer as a courtesy for now", the other side can come back later and start negotiations from your limited activities, not from what is allowed by law.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Which club?

I am in the process of adding cameras to the outdoor pistol ranges @ Hopkinton (already did the indoor pistol range and rifle range).
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Country pond fish and game.

Cameras caught a thief during a open to the public plate shoot (teenager stole someone's vaping pipe) and also caught who shot a big bore rifle on the indoor pistol range. They are very valuable.
 
whacko said:
Country pond fish and game.

Cameras caught a thief during a open to the public plate shoot (teenager stole someone's vaping pipe) and also caught who shot a big bore rifle on the indoor pistol range. They are very valuable.
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There was an incident at MA Rifle a few years ago where a camera caught someone stealing a gun from a range bag.
 
The club does have a game camera facing the backstop, I believe it was installed a year or so ago. Might be time to add a couple of more, maybe one facing towards the way Mr Fortin's house is.
 
whacko said:
Security cameras are a must for a gun club IMO. You cant go anywhere on my clubs ranges without being recorded. It's help solve a shit ton of "mysteries" and it definitely gets members to "behave". In the case if asshats neighbors ......they certainly wont be so likely to trespass with cameras everywhere.
Click to expand...

My club has cameras in and around the clubhouse, on most ranges and inside the various range houses. We have a very well regulated club and there have been no big mysteries as of yet. What few things such as a round into the ceiling (I honestly see no excuse for this) have been reported by the individual. We do need to move one camera as a shed roof was built and obstructs it from the rifle range now. I brought it up and I was the only one who noticed.
 
dhuze said:
My club has cameras in and around the clubhouse, on most ranges and inside the various range houses. We have a very well regulated club and there have been no big mysteries as of yet. What few things such as a round into the ceiling (I honestly see no excuse for this) have been reported by the individual. We do need to move one camera as a shed roof was built and obstructs it from the rifle range now. I brought it up and I was the only one who noticed.
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I suspect the addition of cameras to Westminster's property would be considered a non conforming expansion of the usage of the property and will spark a new round of lawsuits and harassment complaints.
 
Don't underestimate the impact of very obvious Fake cameras with signs near them that say "Smile you are being recorded". Hide the real cameras, put the fake ones out for impact.
 
NES Community, thank you so much for everything you have done to support our club.

I was a NES member when I first got into shooting then just didn't have time to keep up on everything so NES fell off my radar. Thanks to a specific member (not sure if they want to be named) - I'm back and enjoying the forum discussions again. A few pages back someone suggested cameras, great idea, I'd like to look into it more but know that funds are tight now. Can anyone make recommendations for a decent setup that won't break the bank? Did your clubs use professional installers or just figured it out on your own? Any and all suggestions are welcomed. Just for the record, I'm a member of the club, but not speaking on behalf of the club - I'm just looking for suggestions that I can go research on my own and present to our leadership at our next meeting. :eek:)

Thanks again for your support, ideas and donations.
Ron
 
RonW said:
NES Community, thank you so much for everything you have done to support our club.

I was a NES member when I first got into shooting then just didn't have time to keep up on everything so NES fell off my radar. Thanks to a specific member (not sure if they want to be named) - I'm back and enjoying the forum discussions again. A few pages back someone suggested cameras, great idea, I'd like to look into it more but know that funds are tight now. Can anyone make recommendations for a decent setup that won't break the bank? Did your clubs use professional installers or just figured it out on your own? Any and all suggestions are welcomed. Just for the record, I'm a member of the club, but not speaking on behalf of the club - I'm just looking for suggestions that I can go research on my own and present to our leadership at our next meeting. :eek:)

Thanks again for your support, ideas and donations.
Ron
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Ron,

Camera systems are dirt cheap these days, check BJ's/Sam's/Costco at least for ideas.

Mansfield F&G has an electronics wizard as a member and he wired everything up. The system was purchased off of Amazon

Braintree R&P is looking into options but will bid it out and pay big $$ for it. However, we have the money to enable this luxury. Also not trivial is that the outdoor ranges are probably 1/4mile+ from clubhouses.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Time for "round two" - Send a certified/return receipt letter to the developer and any listing real estate agent stating:

1. We exist, have a right to exist, and will continue to operate.
2. We request you inform all potential buyers of this as they may consider this a material factor in their decision

Also, modify the bylaw to have something like "5 years membership required to be eligible to run for office", and look out for abutters joining to effect change from within.
Click to expand...

I also hope with Westminster C.O.P. finds Mike Fortin not suitable for an LTC or FID based on his history of verbally assaulting club members and guests.
 
Also not trivial is that the outdoor ranges are probably 1/4mile+ from clubhouses.
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No problem. Just run single mode (9/125) fiber. We have 1000ft followed by 850ft runs at Hopkinton. I recommend the Netgear GS110TP 8 port POE + 2SFP switch (about $150) and Trendnet 1310nm 10km mini GBICs at each fiber endpoint for about $30 each. If you need longer than 10km, you get get 40km units for about $240 each, and I know some others that go up to 70km. Avoid multimode fiber for the kind of distance you are talking about (less signal loss). Terminating fiber in the field requires expensive equipment (I had little luck with low end DIY kits), so I got pre-tereminated fiber cables from www.lanshack.com.
 
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Camera systems are dirt cheap these days, check BJ's/Sam's/Costco at least for ideas.
Click to expand...
I prefer recording systems that run on generic PCs so I can maintain, upgrade, add storage, fix, replace, etc.

We use ACTi ($$$ for the cameras) at Hopkinton. A good choice that allows multiple vendor's cameras is BlueIris (software package for under $100).

As to dummy cameras - I don't like the idea of a club deceiving its members.
 

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