Drives me crazy that out of all the threads on this forum, you decide to inject your post into a military pictures thread.
Veterans like to reminisce about their service. Because we were young. Photos look at the past, not the present.
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Well, post some military pics.
- Thread starter 03roushs1
- Start date
Veterans like to reminisce about their service. Because we were young. Photos look at the past, not the present.
Christmas Day 2009 en route to Afghanistan on my first deployment.
@Mtn_Guy That reminds me of when I was the assistant demo guy for my squad.
What that really meant was I got to carry all the demo that the combat engineer attached to the platoon didn't want to carry.
Still, he did take the time to teach me some stuff and I got to tag along on some of the demo training that others didn't.
In particular, was this occasion in Uruguay (Nov. 1991) where we set up a 40lb cratering charge on top of a concrete block and then blew it up.
Before:
After:
Good times!
What that really meant was I got to carry all the demo that the combat engineer attached to the platoon didn't want to carry.
Still, he did take the time to teach me some stuff and I got to tag along on some of the demo training that others didn't.
In particular, was this occasion in Uruguay (Nov. 1991) where we set up a 40lb cratering charge on top of a concrete block and then blew it up.
Before:
After:
Good times!
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We called those "vats cans" and the picture reminds me of a story.
We were on a training operation doing platoon sized patrols and then linking up in the evening for company defensive ops/patrol base.
Each night the air wing (CH-46s) would fly in hot chow from the ships that were just offshore.
Breakfast and lunch were MREs.
We had run this cycle for several days.
During one evening, the platoon I was in took it's turn as the duty platoon.
Of course, as a new guy (boot LCpl on his first deployment), I was on every working party that came up.
When the helo came into the LZ, myself and a few others went out to the bird to grab the "vat cans" (Mermite Food Storage Containers) that the chow was delivered in.
Turns out that our position was the last stop for the helo.
The crew chief didn't help unload the vat cans, so I climbed up on the ramp to pass them down.
IIRC, there were 12-15 vat cans
After the helo left the LZ, we arranged the cans so that the company could cycle through and eat.
I opened the first one; it was filled with green beans.
"Put it over there" said one of the NCOs.
I opened the next one; it was filled with green beans.
No big deal, we are feeding a whole company of Marines, there's going to be 130+ portions of green beans.
The next vat can was opened; green beans.
The next, green beans.
Every single vat can was filled with green beans.
Once the Co. Gunny got wind of what had happened, he chewed my ass as if it was somehow my fault?
Those Marines that were hungry and liked green beans ate their fill that night.
Those who didn't like green beans went hungry (or ate one of their other MREs).
One of the other companies in the battalion ate a BUNCH of chili mac that night.
The next evening at a new location the mess hall SSgt was on the helo to supervise the disbursement of the food.
No mistakes that time!
Good times!
Each night the air wing (CH-46s) would fly in hot chow from the ships that were just offshore.
Breakfast and lunch were MREs.
We had run this cycle for several days.
During one evening, the platoon I was in took it's turn as the duty platoon.
Of course, as a new guy (boot LCpl on his first deployment), I was on every working party that came up.
When the helo came into the LZ, myself and a few others went out to the bird to grab the "vat cans" (Mermite Food Storage Containers) that the chow was delivered in.
Turns out that our position was the last stop for the helo.
The crew chief didn't help unload the vat cans, so I climbed up on the ramp to pass them down.
IIRC, there were 12-15 vat cans
After the helo left the LZ, we arranged the cans so that the company could cycle through and eat.
I opened the first one; it was filled with green beans.
"Put it over there" said one of the NCOs.
I opened the next one; it was filled with green beans.
No big deal, we are feeding a whole company of Marines, there's going to be 130+ portions of green beans.
The next vat can was opened; green beans.
The next, green beans.
Every single vat can was filled with green beans.
Once the Co. Gunny got wind of what had happened, he chewed my ass as if it was somehow my fault?
Those Marines that were hungry and liked green beans ate their fill that night.
Those who didn't like green beans went hungry (or ate one of their other MREs).
One of the other companies in the battalion ate a BUNCH of chili mac that night.
The next evening at a new location the mess hall SSgt was on the helo to supervise the disbursement of the food.
No mistakes that time!
Good times!
smokey-seven
NES Member
When in the military, whenever something looks good, you are about to get screwed.
This is my Mom's half brother. He was 22 when she was born. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor he dropped out of Rutgers to enlist. I have no idea what the Aircraft are. He was a Bomber Pilot in the Pacific theater and the Korean war. My Mom has his Medals somewhere. I'm not sure of his rank either? I think my Mom said he was a Major?
Attachments
Cap'n Mike
NES Member
Mermites is the name I remember as well.
Probably an Army thing.
...are those the same man?
Seems he was an Army Air Corps lieutenant in WWII, pictured in the cockpit of a trainer biplane, then a USAF buck sergeant sometime after 1956... That is a very, very, very odd rank progression. Must have had a break in service, and a long one, but still that's quite weird.
And I do not believe those are aviator wings in the lieutenant pic. The shot is blurry, but the center device looks like the wrong shape.
It's the same guy. In the pic in front of the prop he's on the left. To my knowledge he was in until 1964. My Grandmother told me he "Flew the Hump", which is the Himalayas, I think. My Grandfather and he were avid Duck Hunters. When my Uncle came home from Korea on leave, my Grandfather asked him if he wanted to go Duckin. He said he'll never Duck Hunt again, because he knows what it feels like to be a Duck.
I'm much more curious about how he lost his commission. I'd expect a break in service, but even so an actual aviator would never have been allowed to go back into the USAF without being a commissioned officer.
I do not think he was a pilot. I think he was most likely a flight engineer, though I've never heard of an officer being a flight engineer during WWII. Conversely, I've never heard of a pilot or a bombardier/navigator in the USAF NOT being an officer. The ranks very much fail to match your grandmother's story, I'm afraid.
I think, very strongly, that those are not pilot wings on the leftmost pic. His service record would say for sure, as would a shadow box with the actual badge in it. I'd be very, very curious to solve this mystery.
SteelShooter
NES Member
I think my brother was there
The center of the older picture wings (when commissioned) appears to be circular, which would mean an enlisted air crew.
But the newer picture wings (while an enlisted airman) appears to have a pointy bottom for the center, which is likely actual pilot wings
Stranger and stranger. Perhaps pilots during their training received aircrew wings until they got their pilot wings? Or perhaps he enlisted, was trained as an aircrewman and then switched over to receive a commission and become a pilot. So he hasn’t yet earned his pilot wings in that early picture.
Doesn’t explain going to E4 in the ‘50s though.
Edit: I did hear of some WWII battlefield commissions expiring after the war. Perhaps there was something similar with the temporary need for lots of pilots, since he apparently dropped out of college to join up.
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I think those stripes were E5 back then. Not that it really changes anything about the mystery.
I can see (I suppose) a prior engineer going to flight school, but typically those guys got their aviator wings and their bars at the same ceremony. I thought at first the wings in the WWII pic might be Observer wings instead of Aircrew, but I doubt that. I don't think they were giving those out anymore in WWII.
As for the pointy bottom on the USAF wings in the last pic, I think those are USAF aircrew/navigator wings. Those are pointy, but with a solid castle-turret thing across the bottom instead of stripes like a pilot.
So the only real mystery remaining, I suppose, is... why TF was he a lieutenant at all?
The Korean War aircrew wings still had a circular center. But I do think the navigator wings were shaped similarly to the pilots.
But good point about the bottom of that center section being solid.
Hmmm
That's post-Korea, that pic. He's got all the Korean War ribbons, and the USAF didn't finalize those ranks until 1956.
Stranger and stranger. E5 is VERY low for that man, in that pic.
Reminds me of my own grandfather. He got married to my grandmother (also a Marine) in 1944, and their wedding pic shows her as an E5 and him as an E2. Which is odd, because he'd joined up before Pearl Harbor and thus should have been at the very least an E4 by that time. Then there's also the pesky fact that his gravestone lists him as an E5...
I've asked my family members, and they don't have the mindset to reckon with that kind of discrepancy. I assume he got severe NJP at some point; he was definitely an E3 on Guadalcanal, and he must have kept advancing then done something to get him busted all the way back to E2. Nobody knows, at this point, which just shows the limits of "family lore" when dealing with stuff like this.
Elsewhere, I've posted about my grandpa-in-law, who brought a bunch of Nazi stuff back from ETO. His sons (non-military) all just assumed he'd "taken them off a dead German," and he never told them for all the reasons soldiers don't talk to civilians about their service. But once the man found out I was a veteran he felt comfortable telling me he'd merely traded for all that crap after the war, in Nuremberg.
I never trust Family Lore. With the best intentions in the world, it's often wrong. Meaning no offense AT ALL to @rudiewhitebwoy or his grandmother; they might simply not know, and be making stuff up to fill in gaps. I haven't even addressed the idea that this man was ever a Major... It's possible, but there are significant missing pieces.
E5 is LOW for that man after 1956.
Agreed. The enlisted aircrew is still a circle in the middle though. Not sure that ever changed. But I suppose the newer picture badge could be an officer aircrew badge.
My best guess is that he became an officer during WWII, without a degree since he dropped out. They made lots of exceptions during WWII. Then, post war the commission was rescinded because he didn’t have a degree. Maybe had a big break in service, or had some NJP and was the airman rank following Korea.
Also possible he made up to Major during WWII, before having the commission rescinded. People promoted fast during that war.
Definitely need a lot more info/pictures though.
Yes to all that.
But it still doesn't explain why a lieutenant is wearing an enlisted badge at any point.
ETA: I'm doing some research.
Apparently, this badge was also awarded to maintenance supervisors, technical inspectors, bombsight technicians, and folks like that. I could see those being officers during WWII. But I'm not sure I see them being majors. I also don't see how that explains him earning a DFC. I do think those kinds of support-type folks would have been likely to be enlisted by the '50s after a break in service, though E5 still seems low for that man's experience and time in service.
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Oh sure, if he initially went through an enlisted aircrew training before commissioning.
Prior enlisted officers in the Navy wear their enlisted qualification badges unless they get an officer equivalent, then it replaces. I’m guessing Air Force is similar.
Yeah, that's why I posted my edit. That must be what happened. I've never seen another photo of a WWII officer wearing those wings, and I've seen a LOT of pictures of WWII officers.
@rudiewhitebwoy , his medals are not 100% clear; you say they're still in the family, which would be useful. As best I can tell, they're the DFC, the Air Medal, the American Campaign Medal, the Asiatic Campaign Medal, the WWII Victory Medal, then the two Korean service medals at the end.
Nothing I see indicates he was an actual pilot, but obviously his service record would say for sure.
ETA: I'm now thinking those are Observer wings (not Aircrew wings), which would have reverted to the USAF badge he seems to be wearing in that last pic. Observers in WWII would have done things like take recon photos or operate radar sets in planes like the P61 or B29.
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Looks kosher to me....My fathers fighter pilot wings 74th Fighter Squadron, 23 Fighter Group ...China Hump India 43-45
lol
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