The military needs to change this.

[rogersmithiii]

I think we need to lobby for a major change to the way the military handles firearms.
I think that every service critter needs to be issued their own rifle. Officers should be issued their own rifle and pistol.

Those arms now belong to the soldier, and are kept loaded, and in ready condition at all times. No more walking around as a soldier unarmed, or unloaded. Basic training should insure that every soldier can safely handle weapons that are loaded at all times.

Here's the big change.

If and when the soldier is honorably discharged, they get to take those weapons home with them. A small token of thanks from a grateful country.

 

[rogersmithiii]

De John Farnam.

13 Dec 22



“Simple, clear purpose and principles give rise to intelligent behavior. Voluminous, complex ‘rules and regulations’ give rise to stupid behavior!”



Dee Hoch



From a fellow serviceman, who (like me) is long-since retired:



“I was stationed in Alaska in the late 1970s. Eskimo Scouts attached to our infantry battalion carried either Remington M700 bolt-action rifles or Winchester M70 bolt-actions. All were chambered for 30-06, and these Eskimos, accustomed to living in ‘bear country,’ preferred heavy bullets, such as Remington 220-grain ‘Core Lokt’



These unsung heroes of the tundra carried their hunting rifles with them everywhere, even on post (Fort Wainwright), inside the barracks, commissary, mess hall, and the PX. They were careful with them, but their rifles were never unloaded!



They did so in complete and contemptuous disregard for (silly) gun control ‘regulations,’ and it really annoyed a few of our always-indoors ‘desk-bound commandos,’ who, when they shrieked in horror at the thought, were instructed by our commanding officer to calm down, or report to a more ‘conventional’ duty-station further south!



Our Eskimo Scouts told me that they’re always armed with thirty-caliber rifles, because black bear, brown bear, polar bear, and grey wolves are everywhere and always hungry!



In addition, none of the above are impressed with rifles chambered for 5.56x45!



Our Eskimo Scouts were good soldiers and could be counted upon to follow orders, except for foolish, Pentagon-generated ‘regulations’ that when adhered to, led to avoidable deaths, courtesy of unforgiving Mother Nature”



Comment: Human “predators” infesting our world are also ubiquitous and constantly hungry, albeit a good deal less respectable than the ones mentioned above.



Yet, we’re told by sleazy leftists that personal impotence and helplessness are great virtues.



Going armed, as those Eskimos were, is thus a terrible sin, because the practice indicates that
you actually believe you are a free, sovereign citizen and thus have inalienable rights, among which is the right to life, when they sincerely want you to believe that you’re just their willing, expendable slave and have no rights at all!



“Free men bear arms”



Cooper



/John

DTI, Inc. · 1281 E Magnolia St · D339 · Fort Collins, CO 80524-4796 · USA​

 

[drgrant]

I think we need to lobby for a major change to the way the military handles firearms.
I think that every service critter needs to be issued their own rifle. Officers should be issued their own rifle and pistol.

Those arms now belong to the soldier, and are kept loaded, and in ready condition at all times. No more walking around as a soldier unarmed, or unloaded. Basic training should insure that every soldier can safely handle weapons that are loaded at all times.

Here's the big change.

If and when the soldier is honorably discharged, they get to take those weapons home with them. A small token of thanks from a grateful country.

File under : "I'll take things that will never happen for $1000, Alex"

 

[Dench]

File under : "I'll take things that will never happen for $1000, Alex"

Imagine the endless NDs. Holy shit.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

Lol.

No.

Those of us who cared, always had a mag or a ccw on us. The rest of us, i wouldn't trust. Ive had dudes actively planning to kill themselves or others in units with me too.

ETA: Id feel entirely comfortable in the biggest bear country with a full auto M4 and a mag of 855A1.

ETAA: Id feel more comfortable in the biggest bear country with no gun than i would in a crowded dfac where everyones rifle was loaded.

 

[rogersmithiii]

Imagine the endless NDs. Holy shit.

Maybe the military should train them properly.
Every Farnam class that I've attended has been run with a hot range, and there wasn't one ND ever.

Now I get that the average shoot attracts a lot of newbies, and Elmers, whose grasp of firearm safety is imaginary at best, but if you have trained people in a class or on a military base, it's far safer to run a hot range / base where the guns are always loaded, than it is to mess around with a ton of handling, loading, unloading, inspecting, etc.

 

[Dench]

Maybe the military should train them properly.
Every Farnam class that I've attended has been run with a hot range, and there wasn't one ND ever.

Now I get that the average shoot attracts a lot of newbies, and Elmers whose grasp of firearm safety is imaginary at best, but if you have trained people in a class, it's far more safe to run a hot range where the guns are always loaded, than it is to mess around with a ton of handling, loading, unloading, inspecting, etc.

I'm going to assume you've never been in the military. The military paradoxically does not have a gun culture and most people in the military have little interest in firearms outside of direct needed use for things like qualification. And even when they qual, most people are more concerned about having the clean the gun (as it's annoying) compared to actually getting some training in.

I've seen a ton of NDs and other crazy stuff including an M9 straight to the chest point blank. It's not what people on the outside think it is. It's sketchy as f***.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

Id rather kill some people ive been in the military with than guve them a loaded gun. For their own safety.

Arizona man arrested after 'negligent' gun discharge kills bystander

A 24-year-old man has been accused of negligent homicide after a stray bullet from their gun fatally struck someone in the face.

www.12news.com

This guy was in one of my units. Lolol

 

[drgrant]

Maybe the military should train them properly.
Every Farnam class that I've attended has been run with a hot range, and there wasn't one ND ever.

You're making the mistake of comparing two entirely different demographics of people. There are a lot of gun people in the military but its absurd to think that t here's even a majority that
take it that seriously other than by whatever they're forced to. Not to mention theres that whole back-ballast of the mega-shit-f***-ton MOSes that dont carry or touch guns as a part of their job, or literally would be a burden for nothing.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

I bet there werent to many Xirs in the ranks back in the 70s.

 

[Andy in NH]

A good start would be if they replaced the worthless drill movement of "inspection arms" with "immediate and remedial action" (SPORTS or whatever the current IA is).

Almost every conversation I had with former Drill Instructors regarding this resulted the same way as if I suggested rewriting the 10 Commandments.

Even better would be less close order drill and more immediate action drills.

 

[rogersmithiii]

I'm going to assume you've never been in the military. The military paradoxically does not have a gun culture and most people in the military have little interest in firearms outside of direct needed use for things like qualification. And even when they qual, most people are more concerned about having the clean the gun (as it's annoying) compared to actually getting some training in.

I've seen a ton of NDs and other crazy stuff including an M9 straight to the chest point blank. It's not what people on the outside think it is. It's sketchy as f***.

Farnam said that firearms skill among most police and military is horrifically lacking. Sad, but probably true.
God forbid that a cop or soldier is taught how to handle a weapon. Maybe they are too busy learning pronouns or critical race theory.

 

[rogersmithiii]

You're making the mistake of comparing two entirely different demographics of people. There are a lot of gun people in the military but its absurd to think that t here's even a majority that
take it that seriously other than by whatever they're forced to. Not to mention theres that whole back-ballast of the mega-shit-f***-ton MOSes that dont carry or touch guns as a part of their job, or literally would be a burden for nothing.

Precisely. Training and expectations needs to change.

 

[Dench]

Precisely. Training and expectations needs to change.

The military is going the wrong direction. I was in 20 years ago. Now? Its a nightmare from what I see and hear

 

[Picton]

Farnam said that firearms skill among most police and military is horrifically lacking. Sad, but probably true.
God forbid that a cop or soldier is taught how to handle a weapon. Maybe they are too busy learning pronouns or critical race theory.

Who the hell is Farnam?

Funniest thread I’ve read in awhile. Soldiers weren’t ”learning pronouns” back when I was in, and still I’d never trust all of them with a loaded weapon 24/7.

As for officers? In maneuver units, most of them don’t carry pistols. They are riflemen, too.

Tell me you’ve never been in a tactical unit without telling me you’ve never been in a tactical unit, why don’tcha.

 

[rogersmithiii]

Who the hell is Farnam?

Funniest thread I’ve read in awhile. Soldiers weren’t ”learning pronouns” back when I was in, and still I’d never trust all of them with a loaded weapon 24/7.

As for officers? In maneuver units, most of them don’t carry pistols. They are riflemen, too.

Tell me you’ve never been in a tactical unit without telling me you’ve never been in a tactical unit, why don’tcha.

Never served.

Farnam is John Farnam. He runs DTI. Google is your friend.

 

[Picton]

Never served.

Farnam is John Farnam. He runs DTI. Google is your friend.

Lol. Why would I care enough to google him? If he thinks arming Joe 24/7 is a great idea, he’s nobody I need to know about.

 

[rogersmithiii]

The military is going the wrong direction. I was in 20 years ago. Now? Its a nightmare from what I see and hear

Everything is a nightmare. Communists and their band of "useful idiots" have invaded K-12, university, corporations, the media, entertainment, religion, government and non-profits.

The Republicans have been staring at their belly buttons while this happened, and they are like deer in headlights.

 

[drgrant]

Precisely. Training and expectations needs to change.

You don';t get it though. You don't simply "make" people change their mindset by just basting them with some more training. they have to develop that on their own. If they're not coming in with a urge to develop that its not going to happen. Plus you have a mega shit ton of people in the military who literally don't need and shouldn't have a gun (not because of anti shit, just because its a burden, a distraction or even a safety hazard) while they are working, under most circumstances. If the argument is they should be armed because theyre not protected enough, then fix that problem instead, instead of a silly blanket policy which is doomed to failure.

 

[Artifact]

f*** NO

Snackbar beat me to the punch

 

[Andy in NH]

Lol. Why would I care enough to google him? If he thinks arming Joe 24/7 is a great idea, he’s nobody I need to know about.

John Farnam is a Vietnam Infantryman and probably the first firearms instructor to start the "road show" style of training.

He is still teaching.

He has a few quirky ideas ("zippering" to name another), but he does have a lot of other good tactics and techniques in my opinion.

 

[Andy in NH]

Somewhat related to the discussion is this video from John Hearne:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5qvl6P5r6g

 

[Picton]

John Farnam is a Vietnam Infantryman and probably the first firearms instructor to start the "road show" style of training.

He is still teaching.

He has a few quirky ideas ("zippering" to name another), but he does have a lot of other good tactics and techniques in my opinion.

Okay.

But if he thinks every swinging-dick Joe Snuffy can safely haul an M4 around post just because “Eskimo scouts” are safe with their FUDD guns, I’m not sure that logic makes any sense.

 

[42!]

Never served.

Farnam is John Farnam. He runs DTI. Google is your friend.

OK, I googled him and even looked at his DTI site. And other that running DTI and being a "Handgun Instructor" who the F is he. He writes some books based on his handgun instructing and all of a sudden he's an expert on the military? Sounds more like a cult leader that anything else.

Be careful who you follow, David Koresh was not the messiah and neither is this guy.

 

[Andy in NH]

Okay.

But if he thinks every swinging-dick Joe Snuffy can safely haul an M4 around post just because “Eskimo scouts” are safe with their FUDD guns, I’m not sure that logic makes any sense.

In his Eskimo post he never said anything about "Joe Snuffy".

The comments about the Eskimos are actually from one of his associates.

Even @rogersmithiii seemed to overlook that.

Farnam did encourage free, sovereign citizens to take up the practice of "going armed"

He even finished the post with: “Free men bear arms”.

All that said, like everyone else, the Eskimos have their own bell curve of performers.

The "Scouts" are probably at the far right end of it.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'm going to assume you've never been in the military. The military paradoxically does not have a gun culture and most people in the military have little interest in firearms outside of direct needed use for things like qualification. And even when they qual, most people are more concerned about having the clean the gun (as it's annoying) compared to actually getting some training in.

I've seen a ton of NDs and other crazy stuff including an M9 straight to the chest point blank. It's not what people on the outside think it is. It's sketchy as f***.

This sounds like a police qualification. I saw lots of very unsafe gun handling by officers on the range, in the station, etc. Lots of bullet-holes in PD walls and they try to cover them up by moving file cabinets or hanging pictures, etc. over the holes.

Farnam said that firearms skill among most police and military is horrifically lacking. Sad, but probably true.
God forbid that a cop or soldier is taught how to handle a weapon. Maybe they are too busy learning pronouns or critical race theory.

CRT and pronouns didn't exist in my time on the job, thankfully. And my first Chief was a burly Irish cop and a Marine Sgt (Veteran of WWII and Korea) who would never have stood for such nonsense.

 

[FPrice]

Defense Training International – Defense Training International, LLC

defense-training.com

 

[FPrice]

Much of what @rogermithiii, Mr Farnum, and Lt Col Cooper would like to see, unfortunately depends upon on population which is raised with old time values of freedom, duty, and personal responsibility.

Most of which is lacking in far too many people today.

 

[Andy in NH]

Much of what @rogermithiii, Mr Farnum, and Lt Col Cooper would like to see, unfortunately depends upon on population which is raised with old time values of freedom, duty, and personal responsibility.

Most of which is lacking in far too many people today.

It was Another Country back then.

 

[smokey-seven]

If and when the soldier is honorably discharged, they get to take those weapons home with them.

That's going to create some MG law problems.

Imagine the endless NDs. Holy shit.

Depends on the A%^holes you associate with on the range. I've carried long and hand guns for over 70 years and have not had ONE ND in that time. I've associated with countless qualified shooters over that period and have seen a grand total of 2 accidental discharges, both due to a failure of the weapon mechanicals. Neither one created a problem, both rounds went down range.