ToddDubya
NES Member
It seems to me that if he fights this, it would behoove every other FFL in the state to help fund his defense. If and when a donation site becomes available, I'll shovel some dollars to it.
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Was: Mike from Titegroup enters not guilty plea - update: 5/9/14 - plead out
- Thread starter KilgoreTrout
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warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
Mike from Tite Group enters Not Guilty plea
I doubt most gun stores would help another out . There's at least one in mass that will rat you out .
I doubt most gun stores would help another out . There's at least one in mass that will rat you out .
I hope mike beats them! he did the transfer for my first 1911 I bought from a NES member years ago.
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Ehh, I'd hope that they still would stick together in battling the state of Assachusetts. And it's not like there's proximity like Collectors + Four Seasons to worry about. He's in Northborough, pretty much in the middle of nowhere. But you may be right.
Best wishes Mike. Unfortunately I think you are ****ed.
So far most people here are talking about taking the unconstitutionality approach. Which, short of reaching the the Fed. courts, really has no chance since it is the Fed. courts that ultimately settle issues of constitutionality.
So. What about attacking it from the angle of, The application and enforcement of the EOPS list is in direct, conflict with or violation of, a prior SCOTUS ruling? SCOTUS may not be too willing to jump on a criminal case based solely on constitutionality. But they might be willing to hear a case that is directly related to the interpretation and application of one of their prior decisions. Namely the one that says, "Firearms in common usage..."
The NY mag cap law that was recently suspended do to this ruling is going to die on the floor since it is IMPOSSIBLE that it doesn't violate the SCOTUS ruling. I think the EOPS list should be directly challenged on that basis alone. Based on some recent SCOTUS decisions, namely Heller and the one mentioned above, I think that if the SCOTUS did hear the case it would be the end of the EOPS list and the beginning of the end of any similar legislation in other states.
Of course IANAL, I know my username can be misleading that way![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
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If all else fails maybe we should start a "Church of the gun" and make firearm ownership a tenet of the religion. We could write the bylaws in such a way that they make owning large numbers of a wide variety of firearms an "expression of faith". Then we attack the laws on the grounds of religious persecution...
So far most people here are talking about taking the unconstitutionality approach. Which, short of reaching the the Fed. courts, really has no chance since it is the Fed. courts that ultimately settle issues of constitutionality.
So. What about attacking it from the angle of, The application and enforcement of the EOPS list is in direct, conflict with or violation of, a prior SCOTUS ruling? SCOTUS may not be too willing to jump on a criminal case based solely on constitutionality. But they might be willing to hear a case that is directly related to the interpretation and application of one of their prior decisions. Namely the one that says, "Firearms in common usage..."
The NY mag cap law that was recently suspended do to this ruling is going to die on the floor since it is IMPOSSIBLE that it doesn't violate the SCOTUS ruling. I think the EOPS list should be directly challenged on that basis alone. Based on some recent SCOTUS decisions, namely Heller and the one mentioned above, I think that if the SCOTUS did hear the case it would be the end of the EOPS list and the beginning of the end of any similar legislation in other states.
Of course IANAL, I know my username can be misleading that way
. If all else fails maybe we should start a "Church of the gun" and make firearm ownership a tenet of the religion. We could write the bylaws in such a way that they make owning large numbers of a wide variety of firearms an "expression of faith". Then we attack the laws on the grounds of religious persecution...
Ranger007
NES Member
KH56010
NES Member
Best wishes Mike. Unfortunately I think you are ****ed.
So far most people here are talking about taking the unconstitutionality approach. Which, short of reaching the the Fed. courts, really has no chance since it is the Fed. courts that ultimately settle issues of constitutionality.
So. What about attacking it from the angle of, The application and enforcement of the EOPS list is in direct, conflict with or violation of, a prior SCOTUS ruling? SCOTUS may not be too willing to jump on a criminal case based solely on constitutionality. But they might be willing to hear a case that is directly related to the interpretation and application of one of their prior decisions. Namely the one that says, "Firearms in common usage..."
The NY mag cap law that was recently suspended do to this ruling is going to die on the floor since it is IMPOSSIBLE that it doesn't violate the SCOTUS ruling. I think the EOPS list should be directly challenged on that basis alone. Based on some recent SCOTUS decisions, namely Heller and the one mentioned above, I think that if the SCOTUS did hear the case it would be the end of the EOPS list and the beginning of the end of any similar legislation in other states.
Of course IANAL, I know my username can be misleading that way
If all else fails maybe we should start a "Church of the gun" and make firearm ownership a tenet of the religion. We could write the bylaws in such a way that they make owning large numbers of a wide variety of firearms an "expression of faith". Then we attack the laws on the grounds of religious persecution...
I will take a drink at that communion!
Financial support is necessary but how important would a physical show of support by actually being at the courthouse to support him be? How would a judge handle 2000 people showing up to support Mike in court? Would that have an influence?
I may be confused but this case is not about weather or not the AG list is unconstitutional. It is about weather or not he sold guns that are illegal to be sold in this state. I think anyone who has ever been to his shop knows the answer to that question. I dont think it matters how much of your money he spends on a legal defense this case should be a slam dunk. If goal or comm2a would like to file something against the AGs list then I would happily donate to that.
Palladin
NES Member
Are you shittin'?? we can't get 2000 people from here to a Goal rally!!!
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
I'm all for helping out Mike, however, any $$ sent to his legal team will be utilized, very quickly. It's better to set up a third party fund, or send the $ direct to Mike.
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Two sides of the same coin. I never met this guy or entered his shop, but from reading the thread it sounds like he got jammed up for ignoring the EOPs roster (not the AG's "list" which is a completely different thing.) The EOPs roster bans MANY guns that are "in common use," and thus it would seem to be unconstitutional given the precedent set in Heller. In summary, the list is unconstitutional AND he's in trouble for ignoring the list.
Of course the MA courts aren't going to see it that way.
me too
Nobody in the Mass system cares. The law is no better than the men who enforce it and live under it. In Mass, that makes the law a pile of shit. The man who decided to bring the charges, the man who signed the warrant, the man who will prosecute it, the man who will judge that prosecution, the man who arrested him, the man who booked him, and the man who will close the cell door and walk away if it comes to it -- all of them will do so despite it being wrong and despite the law being unconstitutional. Every single one of them will tell themselves they are too small to change anything, that they are just following orders, or, no worse but just as bad, they will think they are doing good. Their desire for a paycheck and their fear of an alternative is all injustice requires to flourish.
![[sad]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/004.gif "Sad [sad]")
Tragic. Such a failed state in which we live.
I'm in for a donation and a protest in front of the courthouse.
I'm in for a donation and a protest in front of the courthouse.
Please keep in mind that donating to a legal fund run by lawyers is like throwing money down a black hole. They will take every dime and then some. Look at Zimmerman in Florida, over 2 million was raised and the lawyers have already gone through all of it. If a fundraising effort is done, it should be collected and managed by someone who isn't an interested principle. Or at the very least, the money sent directly to Mike and not let the amount collected known to the attorneys involved.
ccm75
NES Member
Thats what I was thinking - why not just send dontations right to Mike's home address in Northboro?
When the info comes out and assistance is needed we will figure out a way for Mike to get. There is no more to say on it, we are in a holding pattern.
No, they haven't been "ruled unconstitutional." It is your interpretation of Heller that they are unconstitutional, but no court has said that about the EOPS Roster or the AG's regs. And until or unless a court does, they remain in force.
When this all goes thru, and we can donate to Mike...I vote we step back for a bit, really think about how much money you're blowing on inflated ammo prices and pandering to the government scaring America, and take a month of that money and donate it to a cause that could A) save a fellow patriot B) make a much needed change in the MA gun laws, potentially in other areas of the country as well.
If you spend ___ bucks a month on ridiculous ammo prices...take a month off and donate it to this. He needs our help, and god knows the 2A needs our help. I'd do it for any one of you. What would you think if it was you in the hot seat? You'd hope NES would help you out....prove that NES is more than just a forum. We are a family here. Dysfunctional sure...but a family. Family doesn't abandon their own. Let's help a brother out.
If you spend ___ bucks a month on ridiculous ammo prices...take a month off and donate it to this. He needs our help, and god knows the 2A needs our help. I'd do it for any one of you. What would you think if it was you in the hot seat? You'd hope NES would help you out....prove that NES is more than just a forum. We are a family here. Dysfunctional sure...but a family. Family doesn't abandon their own. Let's help a brother out.
This, unfortunately.
As a former customer, I'd like to throw Mike a few bucks also. However, I'd also like to make sure that money is going to be judiciously used in such a way that first and foremost, helps Mike. It'd also be nice if this turned into some sort of test case, maybe with Comm2A seeing value in it. The latter might be far fetched but we can all hope.
Regardless, good luck Mike.
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