Warning: Do not approach police while carrying hairbrush

[Jose]

Now, if the police shot each shot twice...maybe ok, but 20 shots? Either they have really bad aim or I think that was excessive force.

I think you are not really qualified to judge what is or is not excessive force until you've been in a situation like this.

I haven't been, but I can empty a revolver into a target pretty fast in practice. With a huge adrenal dump, I have no doubt I could easily shoot to slide lock in something with 10 rounds in just a few seconds.

 

[Jose]

My favorite overshooting incident was when Florida police cornered a cop killer, fired 110 rounds, and hit him at least 68 times. The quote from the sheriff was "That's all the bullets we had or we would have shot him more."

As for this incident, four rounds per officer hardly seems excessive.

68/110 is pretty good shooting. When an idiot raises a gun to a posse of sheriff deputies in the south, the result is pretty predictable.

 

[vellnueve]

Don't get me wrong, especially for a cop killer, 68/110 is fully appropriate, but it does fall into the category of what some people would consider excessive.

 

[Snapshot]

I was taught how to shoot by cops.

First, it was hammered into me countless times: You are not shooting to kill, you are shooting to stop. Yeah, I don't see a difference either (except a PC one) but that's the line that they towed.

Second: If you have to fire once, keep firing until you are out. An officer involved shooting is an officer involved shooting no matter how many rounds were fired. If he's a big enough threat that you have to fire once, you want to make damn sure the threat is over.

The idea is simply: "I will go home to my wife and kid....whether I'm still employed or not!!"

 

[TomH]

Don't get me wrong, especially for a cop killer, 68/110 is fully appropriate, but it does fall into the category of what some people would consider excessive.

Why is a cop killer any more evil than another killer? And one bullet or 1,000, dead is dead. If you shoot to kill it shouldn't matter how many shots were used. I can see continuing to shoot after the person was confirmed dead to be excessive of course, thats just a waste of good ammo.

 

[Big Daddy 45acp]

Not taking sides, there is not enough information.

As far as the number of shots fired, I challenge anyone here to take a force on force class. Then report back on the exact number of rounds fired under stress.

Trust me, when you think you are going to die (even in a training scenario) you will most likely empty your gun. You shoot to stop the attack. 1 round or 50 rounds.

True, most cops don't or won't practice as much as they should, let alone take additional courses above and beyond what is required.
Hell, I even know one cop who leaves his gun at the station, because his wife won't let him have it in the house!

Members of this forum should know, better than most, that you cannot judge the facts of an incident just by the press reports.

 

[Jose]

Don't get me wrong, especially for a cop killer, 68/110 is fully appropriate, but it does fall into the category of what some people would consider excessive.

He was most likely dead after then first 15 or so, so anything after that can't be excessive. There is only one degree of dead.

 

[Ripach]

I even know one cop who leaves his gun at the station, because his wife won't let him have it in the house!

If your location was closer to Fall River I'd swear you were referring to my sister's husband.

In regard to the shooting, IMHO If you feel that your life is threatened 4 shots is pretty conservative, I know I for one am likely to discharge all 15 out of my carry piece.

 

[vellnueve]

Why is a cop killer any more evil than another killer? And one bullet or 1,000, dead is dead. If you shoot to kill it shouldn't matter how many shots were used. I can see continuing to shoot after the person was confirmed dead to be excessive of course, thats just a waste of good ammo.

Not that he is any more evil, it's just that shooting him up so badly that you can use him as a sponge is much more understandable from a PD point of view when you know the guy killed one of your fellow officers (I think it might have been two in that case).

He was most likely dead after then first 15 or so, so anything after that can't be excessive. There is only one degree of dead.

Good point. I guess you could call it "rotating your duty ammo"?

 

[Firetarr]

Wanted him to die of lead poisoning!

 

[BDDonovan]

Can you put that first line in English? I have no idea what you're trying to say. OK, I get the "They're so fun to watch" part, but what are "new your witnesses"?

"Know your witnesses"? No, that doesn't make sense.

New York Im' sorry

 

[Erebus]

Cop friend of mine said that when he went to the academy they said, "If he's worth shooting once he's worth shooting 4 or 5 times". I would imagine that they shot until they were sure the threat was ended. Probably when he fell. 4 rounds each would be a matter of a few seconds.

I also find it impossible to believe that 5 cops all decided to murder someone that night. The more I think about it, the more preposterous it seems.