Very few electronics and I have an old Nokia flip phone. No smart phones for me. I don't shop at Harbor Freight and don't buy tools at Lowes or Home Depot ( Snap On and De Walt from the local hardware store). And yes, any American company, that does business with China is by definition a communist sympathizer because the country is run by the communist party. The point is that when there are US Made alternatives why buy from the communists and Leupold is a VERY GOOD alternative.
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Vortex Awarded OTA for Army’s Next Gen Squad Weapon Fire Control
- Thread starter Rockrivr1
- Start date
Very few electronics and I have an old Nokia flip phone. No smart phones for me. I don't shop at Harbor Freight and don't buy tools at Lowes or Home Depot ( Snap On and De Walt from the local hardware store). And yes, any American company, that does business with China is by definition a communist sympathizer because the country is run by the communist party. The point is that when there are US Made alternatives why buy from the communists and Leupold is a VERY GOOD alternative.
NO, because the commies are paying him and he is helping the American economy rather than us paying the commies for their junk.
Same boat with the industry pricing also looking at 3x18-20 range looking to spend 1000 tops but increasing my price a few hundred puts me in the leupold 3-18 originally I was looking SWFA 3-15 which is out of stock waiting on the LOW factory in Japan to ship, Meopta Optika6 waiting for their Czech factory to go back to work and ship and no real deal with Bushnell I can find it cheaper from camera land than the discount they give me for the LRTS 3-18. Bushnell around 750 Meopta around 5 SWFA around 5 when they do the Tax Day Sale. The Burris XTR iii is under a grand for the 3-18 the guys on Snipers hide like them but no other feedback same with the maven RS3 but no other feedback really other than a few hunting sites that got free ones to review them. I’d much rather have a rugged scope that tracks and won’t lose zero than one with top tier glass and features. Nightforce with the discount is still out of my range, isn’t the NX8 a 1-8? To many options I keep spinning my wheels
D
Deleted member 12999
I have a bunch of Vortex stuff. Guess Ill Die?
Isn’t a lot of the vortex popularity due to they give everyone and their mom “industry pricing” the program they run seems to be similar to Sitka, The “ I have a hunting Instagram page with 26 followers”. Here’s 40-50% off deal. I’ve never used the high end rifle scopes but I have had a few range finders and had to send them all back I’ve spent time behind the Razor spotting scope and Binos and viper Binos and the Razor line is decent but doesn’t fall into the price category they are in the Euro Glass still blows the doors off them same with some of the Japan Glass.
I didn’t find that at all, the Kowa 77&88 is up there with the Swaro ATX some Glass snobs say better my eyes like the Kowa 88 over the ATX 85 Swaro and 77 over the 65 ATX, and the ATX 95 rules the roost. Yes the lower end Kowa 600,660,82 may not keep up with the Razor but the 77&88 are in a different league
dcmdon
NES Member
Absolutely not. These guys spend $6k on a gun. Practice regularly with rounds that cost $2 each. Replace $600 barrels regularly and typically spend $5000 on a Vectronix laser range finder.
I doubt a $500 discount on a scope is going to sway someone to a non-competitive scope. (be aware that when industry pricing is compared to s discounter like Optics Planet, its not that great)
Haha yea that’s a bit different than every chooch in a flatbill with a hunting page, I know absolutely nothing about the competition side, just see how they are with hunting “influencers”. And your right even with industry pricing your only saving a few hundred of that from what eurooptics or camera land will sell for
Interesting
View attachment 350469
Vortex Awarded OTA for Army's Next Gen Squad Weapon Fire Control Prototype Program | Soldier Systems Daily
VORTEX OPTICS AWARDED OTA FOR THE US ARMY’S COMPETITIVELY SOLICITED NEXT GENERATION SQUAD WEAPON FIRE CONTROL (NGSW-FC) PROTOTYPE PROGRAM BARNEVELD, Wis. Fo ...soldiersystems.net
The tech would be awesome if it actually works. But that thing looks like a boat anchor.
Well, I don't know you, so I'll ask; how much experience do you have with Vortex optics? You wrote "Vortex is garbage I wouldn’t use one on my kids red Ryder.", so I assume you've had problems? What specifically? Have you used a Vortex Razor rifle scope?
I was talking about spotting scopes originally, so have you used a Vortex Razor HD Gen 2? If you think Vortex "is garbage", then you must think Kowa 821's are garbage since you didn't doubt that the Razor was clearer.
Rockrivr1
NES Member
Not sure where all the Vortex hate comes from. Have 3 Viper PST Gen II installed on rifles and was hitting steel at 1000 yards with one of them at a Granby match. To me that's all I could hope for in a scope.
It wouldn’t be hard to make it work. There are already scopes that integrate range finders and adjust illuminated dots for bullet drop. This would be ideal for squad and platoon machine guns. With very little effort they could not only have bullet drop marked, but also display programmable left and right limits. They could do that in a year of development, easily. Depending on integration efforts, they could then add augmented reality features such as highlighting known friendly or marked enemy positions.
No sir I have not my experience comes from a few rangefinders Binos and spotters I’ve never bought one of the rifle scopes but know a few guys that have had to send them back for issues but none were razors. When I was referring to Kowa I was talking about the 883 which is a 3,000$+ spotter the 821 is an 800 spotter it would be like comparing the Razor to the Diamondback. I would hope a 2,000$ vortex spotter outperformed a 800$ Kowa. When I read your post I didn’t see a model listed and thought you were referring to the flagship vortex(Razor) vs the flagship Kowa (883) which in that case there is no comparison.
And, the Kowa 82 series are $800 for the body only. Eyepieces are an additional $250-$500. So we're pretty much at the same price (I'll grant the Vortex is still a little higher$).
The Kowa 82 series has been the Gold Standard in Highpower Rifle circles for decades. It's still a great scope. My original point is that you can't claim an entire company (Vortex) is "garbage" and expect to be believed.
dcmdon
NES Member
Most of the big dollar scopes coming out these days are "tactical" style exposed knob scopes.
These are an incredibly stupid scope to get for 95% of hunters.
Most hunters, myself included, don't dial for distance. The whole point of many of these scopes is that the tracking is impeccable. Not just the traditional box test, but something called a "tall test". Some of these courses call for the shooter to crank up 40 MOA and then back and down, and back up.
The mechanical aspects of the scope become very important.
This is in contrast to the Japanese made Nikon scope on my deer rifle. Its crystal clear, but its got capped turrets. Mechanically speaking all it has to do is hold zero. Much less demanding than tracking accurately across100+ clicks and then back.
mav
NES Member
Just had a CPU fan/heatsink bracket fail which allowed the heatsink/fan to come off the CPU. Was causing my son’s desktop to randomly shut down due to overheating.
Simple plastic bracket with a hook and mounting points for screws into a motherboard. How cheap and piss poor engineering in materials and fabrication do you have to be to have what is likely a $.10 piece of plastic fail?
$1000 computer sidelined and unusable due to the failure of a part that costs $.10 wholesale/bulk and $4.00 retail... that is China
Screw China. I would sooner drop nukes on it than do business with that PoS country. I own 2 Eotechs and a Trijicon. No made in China there... When it comes time for a quality scope, I’ll look at Leupold and Nightforce.
mav
NES Member
Yep. A Lenovo, sold to a Chinese holding firm by IBM. Bought the computer before China released a modern day plague on the world that they built in a lab. Like I said, screw China. If and when it is possible, I’ll buy American. If not, then I’ll go European or Japanese, but I refuse to do business with China.
I have a friend that hassles me about for buying Vortex products. Haha he tells me a need to stop buying "cheap" optics. He makes six figures so it's easy for him to say. I refuse to pay $800 for a red dot, sorry. I'm not loaded. Civilian use, I don't see any issues with Vortex especially with their lifetime warranty. As for military use, I'm sure there are better options. I'm sure the glass doesn't compare to Leupold or some others, but I wouldn't count them out so fast.
you don’t need to spend anywhere near $800 on a USA made red dot. The leupold freedom rds has an Msrp of $389 street price is lower
Freedom Red Dot Sight (RDS) 1x34mm | Leupold
