Vault or secure room

[JDL]

There was an actual case of improper storage where the defendant lost because the lock was insufficient. The problem was that the lock wasn't a proper lock, it was a privacy lock like you see on bathrooms, and not a lock with a key. I expect (but have no evidence to support) that the door itself was hollow core.




What did you do about the ceiling? Ventilation? I realize you weren't trying to make a safe-room, I'm more curious about cleaning fluids and farts and other stuff. Plus, HVAC helps with moisture.

That's not a lock it's a door knob that needs a paperclip to open. This guy must have been an idiot and deserved to lose
A lock is a lock not a paper clip hole door knob. People can be dopes.

 

[milktree]

That's not a lock it's a door knob that needs a paperclip to open. This guy must have been an idiot and deserved to lose
A lock is a lock not a paper clip hole door knob. People can be dopes.

I agree 100% My point is that there's precedent that a prosecutor could dig up to claim that your door wasn't good enough. Solid core exterior door with the hinges on the inside and a self locking handle and with expanded metal reinforced walls is more likely to keep you out of trouble than a hollow core interior door with a shitty bedroom lock.

 

[JDL]

In this state the intruptatation is anything they want it to be even if it solid steel and triple locked if they want to mess you up they will and then you have to prove it in court. They know they can just brake you down and put you in the poor house even if you win.

 

[quinnjalan]

A secure room is only as good as the walls and door. So 2x are out, unless it’s behind a hidden panel/bookcase etc. Corner of basement is best as it will have two outside walls that are concrete. The two other wall should also be concrete, so I suggest 9” cavity blocks filled with concrete. You will have to chase the floor and put in footings. However, the floor between you and the first floor is about as secure as a wet paper bag. You could cut out the floor in that area and use concrete beams. Now, that you just spent 15k on concrete go talk to the nice folks at Eastern Security for a vault door. Or, dig a hole next to your house. Insert a concrete tanks. All six side need to be concrete. Fill is on top of it and reseed. Cut a doorway in the basement wall and again go talk to Eastern. Either way you are spending a ton of money. Add a mini split for heat/ac if you have anything left over.

 

[paul73]

A secure room is only as good as the walls and door. So 2x are out, unless it’s behind a hidden panel/bookcase etc. Corner of basement is best as it will have two outside walls that are concrete. The two other wall should also be concrete, so I suggest 9” cavity blocks filled with concrete. You will have to chase the floor and put in footings. However, the floor between you and the first floor is about as secure as a wet paper bag. You could cut out the floor in that area and use concrete beams. Now, that you just spent 15k on concrete go talk to the nice folks at Eastern Security for a vault door. Or, dig a hole next to your house. Insert a concrete tanks. All six side need to be concrete. Fill is on top of it and reseed. Cut a doorway in the basement wall and again go talk to Eastern. Either way you are spending a ton of money. Add a mini split for heat/ac if you have anything left over.

i highly doubt if average thieves will progress into a full demolition exercise, even if it is a usual standard studs wall, but a proper steel enforced door - not a safe grade vault door, and a lock that is also enforced enough so you cannot just kick it in.
if police comes in - those bastards got both time and resources to demolish anything, sure, but thieves will not waste hours trying to get into some area cutting their way through the drywall. just need a solid door with steel core, good hinges and well enforced lock receptacle.

 

[Spartan65]

Figure out who bids for contracts to build police stations. Those are contractors who know how to make arms rooms and jail cells, presumably.

They might not be interested in residential work, but they might give you a lead.

Yeah as a guy who builds police stations for a living (sparky who’s wired many in the last ten years) I can tell you those rooms are no different than an office aside from an exhaust hood for cleaning guns.

They lock them up in lockers just like we do.

 

[Picton]

Yeah as a guy who builds police stations for a living (sparky who’s wired many in the last ten years) I can tell you those rooms are no different than an office aside from an exhaust hood for cleaning guns.

They lock them up in lockers just like we do.

I was thinking the OP wanted to put in a vault door...

 

[MLanava]

A secure room is only as good as the walls and door. So 2x are out, unless it’s behind a hidden panel/bookcase etc. Corner of basement is best as it will have two outside walls that are concrete. The two other wall should also be concrete, so I suggest 9” cavity blocks filled with concrete. You will have to chase the floor and put in footings. However, the floor between you and the first floor is about as secure as a wet paper bag. You could cut out the floor in that area and use concrete beams. Now, that you just spent 15k on concrete go talk to the nice folks at Eastern Security for a vault door. Or, dig a hole next to your house. Insert a concrete tanks. All six side need to be concrete. Fill is on top of it and reseed. Cut a doorway in the basement wall and again go talk to Eastern. Either way you are spending a ton of money. Add a mini split for heat/ac if you have anything left over.

It is corner of basement. I did contact ESS as they sold me 4 safes in the past. They said they sell the doors and recommended the browning 6 panel security door but no other advice on installation or what to do except to call a general contractor.

 

[quinnjalan]

It is corner of basement. I did contact ESS as they sold me 4 safes in the past. They said they sell the doors and recommended the browning 6 panel security door but no other advice on installation or what to do except to call a general contractor.

I was under the impression they installed vault doors. I guess from an architectural/design standpoint the architect/engineer/GC are ultimately responsible for design and ESS will only show up with the door. Speaking of the architect/engineer work I’ll be happy to talk to the architectural end and I have an engineer who could do the calculations on structure. This is not one of those jobs you want to 1/2 a$$.

 

[Mountain]

Most, if not all, home burglaries are quick, smash and grab events. Unless some tweakers know you have a collection of guns and are out of town on vacation, they are not going to spend the time to to break into a halfway-decently built safe, strong room, locked closet, whatever.
Any decent amount of deterent will save your stuff.

Unless you are a guy who brags to his buddies, and anybody else within earshot, that you have a collection of awesome guns.

OP is in Central Mass. If the collection is substantial it will be easy enough to find on that list that the .gov dropped on the internet. Such is the gift that our dear leaders have given.

 

[MLanava]

OP is in Central Mass. If the collection is substantial it will be easy enough to find on that list that the .gov dropped on the internet. Such is the gift that our dear leaders have given.

What list?

 

[Mountain]

What list?

Gotta run to work or I'd find the thread on it. Mass dropped a list of firearm registrations and transactions. It was supposed to be anonymous but there's a trick to reference the two lists and narrow down the search to individuals. It's not 100% but many can be found. They took down the lists but it was too late in case someone saved them (I did). I'll post the link later, but that jackass move by the state is another reason to harden up your firearms security. I upped the security for my house.

 

[MLanava]

Gotta run to work or I'd find the thread on it. Mass dropped a list of firearm registrations and transactions. It was supposed to be anonymous but there's a trick to reference the two lists and narrow down the search to individuals. It's not 100% but many can be found. They took down the lists but it was too late in case someone saved them (I did). I'll post the link later, but that jackass move by the state is another reason to harden up your firearms security. I upped the security for my house.

Interesting since I’ve tried getting records from the state with pathetic responses of what they have registered to me. Some stuff that goes to an ffl has no record of individuals not owning them anymore. And then in some cases ffl doesn’t exist anymore when they close etc. A lot of my paperwork was damaged and lost in my old house from water. A registry is useless if no one has accurate representation of what the registry actually is. Anyway sorry for off topic from my original question

 

[Picton]

Interesting since I’ve tried getting records from the state with pathetic responses of what they have registered to me. Some stuff that goes to an ffl has no record of individuals not owning them anymore. And then in some cases ffl doesn’t exist anymore when they close etc. A lot of my paperwork was damaged and lost in my old house from water. A registry is useless if no one has accurate representation of what the registry actually is if you're interested in freedom. Anyway sorry for off topic from my original question

FIFY.

I quit caring a whit about the MA "registry" the day I realized how wrong it is.

 

[AMV]

What did you do about the ceiling? Ventilation? I realize you weren't trying to make a safe-room, I'm more curious about cleaning fluids and farts and other stuff. Plus, HVAC helps with moisture.

I don’t have any water issues in my basement but but I do have a dehumidifier that runs a couple times a day, If I am using any serious cleaning chemicals I go to a more ventilated area. Without giving away too much. The ceiling is reinforced with steel, then 2x10, floor joists. 1” subfloor, 1 1/2” of concrete for radiant heat, 3/8 slate tile on top of the concrete.
Nothing is impenetrable, but it would take some time with multiple tools to get in.

 

[milktree]

I don’t have any water issues in my basement but but I do have a dehumidifier that runs a couple times a day, If I am using any serious cleaning chemicals I go to a more ventilated area. Without giving away too much. The ceiling is reinforced with steel, then 2x10, floor joists. 1” subfloor, 1 1/2” of concrete for radiant heat, 3/8 slate tile on top of the concrete.
Nothing is impenetrable, but it would take some time with multiple tools to get in.

Damn... that sounds pretty awesome. That's how I imagine doing it, too. (other than having some ventilation)

 

[chris_1001]

It sounds like it is in a basement, how is humidity?
Risk of flooding?
How often are you man handling your guns?
why not get more than one gun safe, maybe go smaller but you can segregate - guns used often/safe queens/collectible ...

In MA, you can have your rifles with a lock and be compliant. It is easy enough to put a lock on a door or replace the door with a vault door and have your rifles with trigger locks on a wall or in a closet. Finish the concrete all the way to the ceiling.

Most people will not know what is in that room.
Someone can kick a hole through a wall, but if they are doing that chances are they know you have something. Anyway, if you are somewhat serious, it wouldn't take much to reinforce the wall against a foot going through.

It won't be fire proof, but if you don't have rare collectibles or sentimental guns, insure them. Insurance is cheap, like $150/year for something like $50K. I need to check my policy, but it also covers reloading components and ammo.

I forget who it was maybe @fencer or @richc Sells a trigger lock that mounts to a wall, I didn't see one in person but I remember the thread and it seemed cool and convenient.

@richc

Has them.