USPSA @ New Bedford Sunday 7/26

[jkelly]

I bet the difference is 2/10ths of a sec, which is a lot. I'll put it on a timer tomorrow and see

What will your test include?

Respectfully,
jkelly

 

[MFP4073]

I'm not concerned as the prizes are the same for everybody at this match.

However, the principal issue is that not everybody was instructed to perform (or performed) the same action at the beginning of the stage. My squad was told we must start with toes touching the feet of the popper frame and we had to push it over at the start signal.

 

[Supermoto]

What will your test include?

Respectfully,
jkelly

I'll replicate the start with a target in about the same location as the target on the right side of the wall

5 draws after pushing the popper over,
5 draws with just touching the popper
5 draws with letting the popper fall

Average the time and see if there is any difference.

 

[jkelly]

I'll replicate the start with a target in about the same location as the target on the right side of the wall

5 draws after pushing the popper over,
5 draws with just touching the popper
5 draws with letting the popper fall

Average the time and see if there is any difference.

Sounds like a interesting test, please publish your data. You might want alternate the "popper release" used so there is no advantage of one over the other.

Only A hits count?

Respectfullty,
jkelly

 

[TY43215]

I'll test that also. I didn't read the WSB, so I'm not sure what was actually required. But we'll see which is faster

Designers were Steve, Neil, and Lori. Popper was supposed to be pushed over at start. That was what they had on the sheet. Toes on steel, push popper over. Either way, it was till a good stage and the shooter on our squad that slipped and shot the poppers seated gets the points for the best recovery. Wish I had that on video

 

[38supermatt]

Popper was supposed to be pushed over at start. That was what they had on the sheet. Toes on steel, push popper over.

Nope, the sheet did not say push it over, it said hands on the top of the popper, toes on the base. After Neal and Lori questioned if I knocked it over, I pointed out the stage description did not say i had to. I never heard them say I had to knock it over in the stage briefing, (they may have, and I just may have been distracted by all the excitement looking for Mike's run away reverse plug) I read the sheet which mentioned nothing of knocking it over. Lori and Neal walked over and read the write up after and saw that it did not mention knocking over the popper. It may have been their intention to have us do this, I don't know.
Any concern about the stage having been unfair for everyone because some didn't push the popper over is unfounded. I am going to assume that we all can read English, (since we are posting on here in English) and it was there for anyone to read it.
If someone didn't read the written stage write up, they shouldn't be complaining about fairness, they have only themselves to blame for not verifying everything they were told was correct by reading what was written down. When you don't have RO's who are stuck, dedicated to the same stage all day, you may have slightly differing stage briefings, so you should always take the 30 seconds to read what the designer took the time to write up. He or she took the time to write it for you.

 

[scottb]

I'd like to reiterate Matt's thoughts; The Written Stage Briefing (WSB) is the 'bible' for that stage. It specifies what a competitor can, and cannot, do (within USPSA rules of course). As a match we believe (and I do speak for everybody in this regard) that this is a USPSA match and we will follow USPSA rules to the best of our abilities; And that's where problems pop up. Because of last minute problems, time constraints, lack of knowledge, etc. we all make mistakes (heaven knows that defines my learning style). Obviously there was a communication problem on that stage but we (as a match) will learn from this and make all attempts to correct it in the future. I don't believe that the stage start was a deciding factor in the match thankfully. The best competitors won their respective divisions. Just be assured that things like this are oversights and not errors of deceit.

BTW - Thank you all for the discussion related to these, and any rules related issues. As much as it batters our collective egos, we can't improve unless we know were we are deficient. We also know that generally these are small things overall, but important to competitors, so they are important to us. Afterall, we're competitors too and we want the match run as fairly as possible.

 

[Supermoto]

Here are the results for today test
I shot the different starts one after the other, repeated 3 times
This was 1st shot to a steel target at the approx location of the 1st target I engaged on the stage


Push the popper over
1.32 1.37 1.26 1.30
avg= 1.31

Touching the popper
1.23 1.19 1.12 1.16
avg=1.17

Dropping the Popper
1.30 1.22 1.22 1.17
avg=1.22

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I'd like to reiterate Matt's thoughts; The Written Stage Briefing (WSB) is the 'bible' for that stage. It specifies what a competitor can, and cannot, do (within USPSA rules of course).

Under the rules, the written stage briefing must be posted at the stage (3.2.1) and read verbatim to each squad (3.2.2). If an individual, acting in an official match capacity, gives an instruction that is inconsistent with the written stage description and this impacts competitor performance, I would expect it to be range equipment failure.

Errors will happen from time to time - what matters is not perfection, but the pursuit of excellence. I don't mind if a club makes a mistake, learns, and moves on. This sort of thing only becomes a serious problem when people are unwilling to admit mistakes, learn, and improve.

It was a well run match with great stages, and well worth the drive.

 

[Dan Hurley]

Wow, a lot of effort analyzing a start procedure that might add 0.15 seconds to the stage and dissecting some poor person's write-up for a monthly match. Keep this up and I'm bringing Jac-Jac back from the grave. It might take a bunch of voodoo, but I just got this really good instructional book ...

 

[Dan S]

Wow, a lot of effort analyzing a start procedure that might add 0.15 seconds to the stage and dissecting some poor person's write-up for a monthly match. Keep this up and I'm bringing Jac-Jac back from the grave. It might take a bunch of voodoo, but I just got this really good instructional book ...

I think you need chicken wing bones, and a racoon skull.