UPDATE: Police RAID house of gun-toting St. Louis lawyer couple and confiscate the AR-15

[dcmdon]

Cops do this all the time.

Yup. And its wrong for them to do it.

**Edit** Just texted with my nephew who just got out of the academy last Sept. I'm not suggesting he's some kind of legal expert. But simply that this is a datapoint on how cops are trained. In his case at the CT State Police academy. His response was:

We were never taught to gain compliance by pointing our firearm at someone who’s not a life threat, non compliant subject a taser is fine.

You could prob get her with a reckless or threatening charge for brandishing the weapon at protestors, idk what the charges would be, they are different state to state.

Having it at low ready would have been fine, but she could have killed someone. She deserves to get charged but i don’t agree with having firearms seized.

Cops can not just point their firearms at people whenever they want to gain compliance

 

[dcmdon]

Lol depending on local laws them pointing the guns at those people could be legally meaningless given the circumstances. Every state is different. Finger on the trigger is certainly bad trigger discipline, but likely legally meaningless once you've pointed a gun at someone. I'm not aware of any situation in the US where "that" actually means something in legal terms.

The fact that they haven't been charged with a default array of bullshit yet speaks volumes, IMHO. It smells like "hey we are inventing shit to charge them with, pls hang on" the usual screwjob done in where moonbat judges or prosecutors are in play.

But yet the security on their property with slung ARs at low ready isn't a problem.

 

[Uzi2]

Yup. And its wrong for them to do it.

But THEY are never held accountable for doing it.....it is accepted behavior by both their peers and their superiors.

So when average joe does it, they should be no more subject to criticism or accountability than the hired guns "professionals" of government.

 

[Reptile]

Missouri couple’s gun rights defended in letter to AG Barr from 12 GOP lawmakers

Twelve Republican members of Congress have written to U.S. Attorney General William Barr, arguing in defense of the Second Amendment rights of a Missouri couple whose rifle and handgun are now in the possession of local authorities.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Junior314]

Pointing a gun with your finger on the trigger at people who do not present an imminent threat to your life could be charged a number of ways. Reckless endangerment comes first to mind, followed by threatening.

You keep saying that... people in the mob were threatening them and their property and were clapping pistol magazines at them.

What would the mob need to have done warrant threatening behavior?

 

[dcmdon]

But THEY are never held accountable for doing it.....it is accepted behavior by both their peers and their superiors.

So when average joe does it, they should be no more subject to criticism or accountability than the hired guns "professionals" of government.

Everyone should be held accountable.

One of the benefits of living in a liberal state is that the cops are kept on a pretty short leash. For the most part the politicians that run the towns consider cops to be a necessary evil. Another friend of mine who is a cop in a very liberal town told me that if he ever pointed his pistol at someone to gain compliance he'd be put on leave and sanctioned in some way.

People think that being put on paid leave is a vacation. Its not. Most cops salaries are not living wages. They make their money from overtime and detail work. Typically more than doubling their salary. They can't work OT and details while on leave. So it effectively cuts their pay in half.

 

[dcmdon]

You keep saying that... people in the mob were threatening them and their property and were clapping pistol magazines at them.

What would the mob need to have done warrant threatening behavior?

A gun held at low ready is pretty threatening and faster to bring into action than the way she was pointing it at people.

Back to the idea of pointing it at only things you intend to kill. Someone pointing a gun at them would have justified pointing it them. Multiple people (disparity of force) approaching them on their property could have justified it. Maybe that happened at some point before the video started rolling. But at the point we see there is no justification for anything beyond low ready.

 

[whatluck]

 

[Picton]

People think that being put on paid leave is a vacation. Its not. Most cops salaries are not living wages. They make their money from overtime and detail work. Typically more than doubling their salary. They can't work OT and details while on leave. So it effectively cuts their pay in half.

Spare me. An employee living beyond his means is not my problem. And speaking as a public employee who does plenty of unpaid work outside of contractual hours without bitching about it, my response is...

WAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

[Junior314]

A gun held at low ready is pretty threatening and faster to bring into action than the way she was pointing it at people.

Back to the idea of pointing it at only things you intend to kill. Someone pointing a gun at them would have justified pointing it them. Multiple people (disparity of force) approaching them on their property could have justified it. Maybe that happened at some point before the video started rolling. But at the point we see there is no justification for anything beyond low ready.

Nobody is arguing they know how to handle their weapons.

We will just agree to disagree about the threat that mob posed.

 

[Spicolii]

Pointing a gun with your finger on the trigger at people who do not present an imminent threat to your life could be charged a number of ways. Reckless endangerment comes first to mind, followed by threatening.

What are you like the club range officer or something? Enough with this already. If those people didn't want to get flagged they shouldn't have been there. It's their frickin property. Lack of fire arms capability is not a crime.

 

[fshalor]

Which end of it???

End? I was thinking sideways. With the stock extended.

 

[btnh6668]

Everyone should be held accountable.

One of the benefits of living in a liberal state is that the cops are kept on a pretty short leash. For the most part the politicians that run the towns consider cops to be a necessary evil. Another friend of mine who is a cop in a very liberal town told me that if he ever pointed his pistol at someone to gain compliance he'd be put on leave and sanctioned in some way.

People think that being put on paid leave is a vacation. Its not. Most cops salaries are not living wages. They make their money from overtime and detail work. Typically more than doubling their salary. They can't work OT and details while on leave. So it effectively cuts their pay in half.

All easily said when you are not the one who was in danger. Very easy to look after the fact and evaluate. This world has no shortage of monday morning quarterbacks.

 

[fshalor]

I would use explosives. I was trained as a TOW gunner during my brief stint in the Corps. I know what a HEAT warhead or even an IED can do to a police BEAR or BEARCAT. Done right, it will pulverized the vehicle and toast anyone inside.

The Ford ones have a veeeery exposed oil filter visible in the passenger side wheel well. Trivial to take it out with a crowbar or umbrella with a spike on the end of it.

Ya that was a fake AR? Really? Yeah.

Can't wait for the video footage to get leaked. I am actively reevaluating defensive plans. Need a better network.

This is still very much phase one of what we can expect to see.

 

[fshalor]

Cops do this all the time.

True. But they also have this little pesky thing called Qualified Immunity. QI is no joke. Except it is. On the constitution.

 

[1919FAN]

Time to bring back the NES open carry cookout.....

 

[drgrant]

But yet the security on their property with slung ARs at low ready isn't a problem.

Not the same situation as the original one, not even close- the return protesters stayed outside the perimeter.

 

[Baby Billy]

Yup. And its wrong for them to do it.

**Edit** Just texted with my nephew who just got out of the academy last Sept. I'm not suggesting he's some kind of legal expert. But simply that this is a datapoint on how cops are trained. In his case at the CT State Police academy. His response was:

We were never taught to gain compliance by pointing our firearm at someone who’s not a life threat, non compliant subject a taser is fine.

You could prob get her with a reckless or threatening charge for brandishing the weapon at protestors, idk what the charges would be, they are different state to state.

Having it at low ready would have been fine, but she could have killed someone. She deserves to get charged but i don’t agree with having firearms seized.

Cops can not just point their firearms at people whenever they want to gain compliance

Anyone could potentially kill someone. Let's charge them all.

 

[drgrant]

True. But they also have this little pesky thing called Qualified Immunity. QI is no joke. Except it is. On the constitution.

There's more than just that there's allowances in the laws usually for various amounts of intermediary force by police. "Arrest Powers" change a lot of things.... particularly when the arrest is justified legally....

 

[Uzi2]

This is nothing compared to what I expect we will see in the lead up to the elections.....and when trump gets re-elected the left is going to lose their marbles......

The left has long since lost their marbles, it's just a matter of how far they are willing to push things before they start getting shot dead in the streets by people who are completely sick and tired of their bullshit.

 

[milktree]

The group was already upon them...... having forced their way onto their property, threatening to kill them and burn their house down.

The angry trespassing mob at the McCloskey's WAS threatening their lives and threatening to burn their home.

You either haven't seen the guy's own words spoken on numerous news broadcasts or you are just being willfully ignorant about the situation.

The two of them were facing a mob that had already broken into private property and was visibly armed

I think I've watched all the videos, but I can't find any evidence of them being armed, or threatening to kill anyone, or threatening to burn the house down.

Am I being blind?

Can someone please point me to a video that shows these things? Ideally with a time indicator. ("At 4:15 the dude on the right has a gun", or "At 9:24 you can hear someone threatening to kill them")

If this was a black couple and those were klansmen would this have been handled the same way?

But it's not. That's a false equivalency. What if it was a Jewish couple and it had been Nazis? What if it were 1939 Germany? What if it were 1963 Alabama?

 

[Lucas McCain]

This is nothing compared to what I expect we will see in the lead up to the elections.....and when trump gets re-elected the left is going to lose their marbles......

Hopefully they will all go full retard and we can end this foolishness once and for all.

 

[dcmdon]

Cut the bullshit

The two of them were facing a mob that had already broken into private property and was visibly armed

Their actions were 100% justified.....could they use a bit of training/trigger discipline? Sure.....but the consensus is that the only reason their place wasnt ransacked and the only reason they were not assaulted by the mob was because they were armed

The mob was on the road. Yes a private road. But they were not on their property.

The fact that they were armed is irrelevant. just like its irrelevant to a cop if they make the bulge on your belt and can see that you are armed.

Trigger discipline/training is not something to gloss over. There is a huge difference between greeting a mob with a gun at low ready and continuously pointing it at them with your finger on the trigger.

All of my arguments are predicated on a couple of things that I believe to be true. If I'm wrong, then its different.

1) the group stayed on the street except for a stray person or two.
2) the armed members did not point their guns at the homeowners.

If the group as a whole started to advance on the homeowners, then the homeowners were justified.
If those with the firearms were pointing at the homeowners then the homeowners actions were justified.

 

[Uzi2]

Everyone should be held accountable.

One of the benefits of living in a liberal state is that the cops are kept on a pretty short leash. For the most part the politicians that run the towns consider cops to be a necessary evil. Another friend of mine who is a cop in a very liberal town told me that if he ever pointed his pistol at someone to gain compliance he'd be put on leave and sanctioned in some way.

People think that being put on paid leave is a vacation. Its not. Most cops salaries are not living wages. They make their money from overtime and detail work. Typically more than doubling their salary. They can't work OT and details while on leave. So it effectively cuts their pay in half.

You're full of shit. There's not a cop in the northeast anywhere that is not making a living wage on their straight pay.

The detail and overtime is just icing on the cake.

 

[dcmdon]

Not the same situation as the original one, not even close- the return protesters stayed outside the perimeter.

My point is that the security with guns at low ready did not justify a police response. If the homeowners had done the same thing there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Baby Billy]

My point is that the security with guns at low ready did not justify a police response. If the homeowners had done the same thing there wouldn't be a problem.

Your point is dumb.

Unless there is some legal standard you can point to (I saw what I did there) that mentions low ready. Bad trigger or muzzle discipline isn't against the law.

 

[dcmdon]

You're full of shit. There's not a cop in the northeast anywhere that is not making a living wage on their straight pay.

The detail and overtime is just icing on the cake.

My nephew who is has been on for less than a year, but has a BS in criminal justice makes a little over 40 k/yr salary. With OT and details he's pushing 120K.

My 15 year on the force friend who is still a patrolman but does not have a college degree makes a bit more, but still less than 55k salary.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

You're full of shit. There's not a cop in the northeast anywhere that is not making a living wage on their straight pay.

The detail and overtime is just icing on the cake.

Are you from MA?

Have you looked at the MSP salaries?

I would get is a Boston cop can pull down $200K+ with overtime (one topped $300K) that the straight time would be a living wage. The Metrowest Daily News reports that the compensation for detectives in one west suburban town averaged $145K.

There is a reason some states are constantly advertising for police recruits whereas in MA it only happens when targeting diversity hires, and people often spend years to get on a force (sometimes working their way up from dispatch).

 

[dcmdon]

We can argue about the numbers. But what is inarguable is that the vast majority of cops essentially double their pay with OT and details.

So if you are used to living on X and now you have to live on 1/2X. It hurts. Regardless of what X is.

 

[Bonesinium]

He makes 80 grand in OT and details? Such a scam.