Update: .223 rifle or 7.62mm rifle? (SAIGA)

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Well my search for a mustang pocketlite isn't doing so well so im thinking of getting a long gun instead. I was thinking of picking up a SAIGA with a collapsible stock for my first assault rifle. I would really like an AR but i dont think i want to spend another $1000 on a gun right now. I can get a collapsible stock SAIGA for 500 or so.

So back to the question i first asked. Which round should i get it chambered in. really I am looking for the cheaper ammo here. From what i have seen 7.62 tends to be cheaper or are they both about the same.

A dealer by me carries these guns chambered in both rounds. They take the original stock off and put collapseable stocks and pistol grips on.

Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Mike
 
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Based on your profile, you are in MA, therefore, a collapsible stock and a pistol grip would make this an Assault Weapon, which means it is illegal to own unless it was manufactured prior to 9/13/1994. As for caliber, asssuming you are talking about 7.62X39, I would probably pick that one, as the ammo is cheaper.
But I think AR is much more superior, and that's what I have.

Andrew.
 
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The one i was talking about looks like this. The top pic is what it looks like from the factory. The bottom pic is one like the one im talking about minus the rail.

saigapicoriggeo12pg1p12.jpg

saigaakpicgeo26pg1p12.jpg
 

M1911

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Collapsible stock is legally the same as a folding stock and is a no-go item here in MA. If you get a pre-ban rifle, you can have any stock on it that you want (fixed, collapsible, or folding). If you get a post-ban rifle, then it must have a fixed stock on it.
 
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It's a coin toss between .223 and 7.62x39 inless you plan on hunting with it. For hunting, the 7.62x39 is better deer.
 

Twigg

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The one i was talking about looks like this. The top pic is what it looks like from the factory. The bottom pic is one like the one im talking about minus the rail.

saigapicoriggeo12pg1p12.jpg

saigaakpicgeo26pg1p12.jpg


Still a no-no. Like Greg said its' got to be pinned (Permanently.)

Otherwise it a felony.

You'd be better off with a WASR or some other AK clone it it 7.62X39 you want.
 
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Hmmm....this thread is turning out to be very interesting. I am not going to name names but a dealer sold my friend a NIB SAIGA .223. The stock is not pinned and fully functional. The gun i am talking about is pictured below. You can see it is laying on the wooden box. I just had my friend send me the picture. He bought this new 3 days ago and has confirmed the dealer switched the grips and stock. Supposively its a pre-ban mag. He also got 1 ten round mag with it. You can see the stock is fully collapsed in the picture


Is it possible its a pre-ban collapsable stock or does the whole rifle have to be a pre-ban?

imagejpeg_0.jpg
 
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Hmmm this thread is turning out to be very interesting. I am not going to name names but a dealer sold my friend a rifle NIB SAIGA .223 in the configuration shown up top. The stock is not pinned and fully functional.

Your friend is now and "un-convicted felon".[wink]
 
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Wow, i think the dealer made a huge boo boo on this particular one. He still has the regular stock so he can have the dealer switch it back over. I would take the whole gun back myself. I wasnt even aware. I'm not totally 100% up to date on my assault weapons ban stuff. It was his first long gun too.
 
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yeah but thats the whole reason he bought the gun. So i take it even if it was a preban collapsible stock its not complaint either?

I guess im just trying to figure out what the hitch is with this rifle. It doesn't seem like there is one, and that is is straight up not MA compliant. I just can't believe a shop would sell a setup like this.
 
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JonJ

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No. The rifle itself would have to be preban not just the stock.
Some gun dealers don't know the laws or they get confused.
If your friend wants an AK with a collapsible stock, it's going to run him well over $1K.
 
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I've heard incorrect advise on Massachusetts firearm regulations dispensed by the employees of every gun shop I've visited, including some of the very best gun shops in Massachusetts.

Gun shop in Woburn: "You can never own one of those in Mass."

Gun shop in Stoneham: "That upper will be OK after you grind off the bayonet lug, because that's a muzzle brake and not a flash hider."

Gun shop in Easton: "That's not a brake, it's a flash hider. You can replace it with a brake and use red locktite to secure it to the end of the barrel."
 
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I appreciate everyone helping me out here. I have some paperwork here. I would like to get the paperwork so we can bring it to the attention to the dealer if he wants. I am going to bring it to his attention he might have purchased an illegally modified gun and i think we should check into it further.

Does anyone happen to have the assualt weapons ban paperwork?

This whole thing just doesn't make sense to me.
 
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So take this gun for example, is just a collapsible style stock. This is on Four Seasons website.
NewImage.gif


It is advertised as having a. (Stock: Fixed Position) meaning that stock will not move?
 

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It is advertised as having a. (Stock: Fixed Position) meaning that stock will not move?
Correct.
The whole concept of banning a collapsible stock is foolishness (the whole AWB is). The reason they're banned is because of their "concealability". The stock can be fixed in any position to be compliant, including the shortest which is when it is most concealable. Smart thinking, huh?
 
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Well it looks like you guys are right. Everything i found points to that stock being illegal in MA. Its good for me to know, i won't being buying one of these rifles now. Thats the whole reason i wanted one. I will save up and buy a pre-ban AR [grin]
 
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Is it possible its a pre-ban collapsable stock or does the whole rifle have to be a pre-ban?

The date of manufacture of the stock is immaterial. The only important thing is the date of manufacture of the rifle. And I'm quite sure that the Saiga pictured is post-ban and thus illegal in MA. Possession of same is a felony.
 
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LT1MCSS: Just to let you know, Tombstone Trading in Brookfield has a Colt pocketlite. I don't know what the price or caliber are.
 

SKS Ray

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I'f you're going to get an AK, get one in traditional 7.62x39. There are Saigas out there now that I've seen that are in standard AK configuration. Not sure if they're MA legal, I haven't looked it up yet and don't even know for sure what they have for features on them.
 
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update on the situation, i talked to my buddy tonight about it. At first he said oh well I'm not going to give it back and play dumb. I guess he changed his mind because since then he has tried contacting the dealer. He also called another friend of mine who is a gun collector. He is not a lawyer or anything so he doesn't know the laws 100% but he did say yes i believe that stock must be pinned.

We are going to try to get a hold of the dealer tomorrow and find out exactly whats going on. I guess they did mention something about why they could sell that gun legally in MA. How i don't know and my friend didn't pay that much attention to him. Now he wishes he had im sure. Either way we will find out and I will post it here.

Thanks to everyone for their help and input.
 
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8thring

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223

Well my search for a mustang pocketlite isn't doing so well so im thinking of getting a long gun instead. I was thinking of picking up a SAIGA with a collapsible stock for my first assault rifle. I would really like an AR but i dont think i want to spend another $1000 on a gun right now. I can get a collapsible stock SAIGA for 500 or so.

So back to the question i first asked. Which round should i get it chambered in. really I am looking for the cheaper ammo here. From what i have seen 7.62 tends to be cheaper or are they both about the same.

A dealer by me carries these guns chambered in both rounds. They take the original stock off and put collapseable stocks and pistol grips on.

Let me know what you think.
Thanks
Mike

i like and have both calibers; as far as cheap ammo; start reloading. 223 is cheap to reload for bulk lots of 1000 and up easy to find. brass can be free; you find plently of once fired new discards at most rifle ranges [smile]
 

Greg

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I guess they did mention something about why they could sell that gun legally in MA. How i don't know and my friend didn't pay that much attention to him. Now he wishes he had im sure.

A dealer will sell you anything you want when it comes to rifles...Unlike the pistol laws,the burden is on YOU for posessing the evil baby killing weapon when it comes to the AWB,not on the dealer.
 
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A dealer will sell you anything you want when it comes to rifles...Unlike the pistol laws,the burden is on YOU for posessing the evil baby killing weapon when it comes to the AWB,not on the dealer.


My honest opinion on it is that they either made a mistake or don't know what they are talking about.

The thing with that gun is it kinda sticks out. How often do you see an AK with a collapsible stock. Usually if anything it is an underfolder. So the gun sticks out like a turd in a punch bowl with that stock on it.
 

M1911

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The thing with that gun is it kinda sticks out. How often do you see an AK with a collapsible stock. Usually if anything it is an underfolder.

And if the AK in question is pre-ban then it is not an issue in MA. In NH, it is not an issue if the AK is pre-ban or post-ban.
 
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I've heard incorrect advise on Massachusetts firearm regulations dispensed by the employees of every gun shop I've visited, including some of the very best gun shops in Massachusetts.

Gun shop in Woburn: "You can never own one of those in Mass."

Gun shop in Stoneham: "That upper will be OK after you grind off the bayonet lug, because that's a muzzle brake and not a flash hider."

Gun shop in Easton: "That's not a brake, it's a flash hider. You can replace it with a brake and use red locktite to secure it to the end of the barrel."

I don't know who you talked to in Easton but a flash hider would have to be silver soldered or blind pinned. I have done them for other NES members, we do not red locktite brakes or flash hiders on post ban firearms.
 

M1911

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I don't know who you talked to in Easton but a flash hider would have to be silver soldered or blind pinned. I have done them for other NES members, we do not red locktite brakes or flash hiders on post ban firearms.

Careful. For a post-ban gun, it generally must be a muzzle brake, rather than a flash suppressor. If you have a pistol grip on a post-ban assault weapon, then you can not have a flash suppressor -- it must be a muzzle brake instead.
 
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