Update 2/21 Westford Ban

Typically there is a section reserved for non-voters. There should be a check in station at the door and only registered voters are allowed into the main seating area. In my town its a gym and non-voters are standing room only in the back. The moderator's job is to make sure only the right people are voting.

I'm only offering suggestions....those of you in Westford need to decide how to approach this. Wanted to give you an idea of whats possible/permissable. I'm far from an expert, just reporting on what I've seen from the "other side of the table".

Good luck...and give them hell!

PennyPincher said:
This meeting will likely have more than can be held at it's regular meeting place. I would be upset if registered voters of Westford were displaced by non-residents or non-registered residents. If we defeat this at town meeting and the hall is packed with outsiders and residents cannot get in, there will be doubt as to the validity of the vote.
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In case people haven't seen this Selectmen Mull Warrant Article on Gun Ban - Westford, MA Patch

In the comments someone posted something very interesting:

I didn't know the circus booked dates in town :O These are all BIG RED STOP SIGNs!
"initial goal was brought up four days after the shootings in Newtown, Connecticut"
"ensure that the events of Newtown could not happen in Westford"
"if it did pass Town Meeting, it would not be able to become a bylaw without approval of the Attorney General’s office, which would be unlikely if the article potentially violated state or federal law"
 
I would like to encourage all of you to read the letter from town counsel.

www.tinyurl.com/westfordban

a few things: this would BAN almost all semiauto rifles and handguns from the town (residents and non-residents) as it includes everything that can accept a magazine with a capacity greater than 10 rounds REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY CARRYING. The same for shotguns which can hold more than 5 rounds. BANNED!
ALL magazines greater than 5 rounds will be banned. There would be NO GRANDFATHERING.

We have a good group of people, much smarter than me but no less passionate about the cause, working on this. We have support of our local organizations.

If you are a Westford resident or a non-resident willing to help us (should we find a need you can fill) please email me. I will be using Constant Contact to send out updates and ask for help. Please email me at [email protected]. If you would include your town of residence (so I can distinguish) and a cell phone number for alerts.

I appreciate all the help and offers thus far. If this happens in Westford, your town may be the next one!
 
Yesterday's paper mentioned they will be bringing up an override for town meeting because they will have a 3.5 - 5.5 million budget shortfall. If possible if someone could find what the average 2a lawsuit costs or could cost, then an amendment can be brought on the floor at town meeting to amend the warrant requiring that amount of money to be budgeted as the town will definitely face lawsuits. Not sure if that is even possible but worth looking at.
 
garetjax said:
Yesterday's paper mentioned they will be bringing up an override for town meeting because they will have a 3.5 - 5.5 million budget shortfall. If possible if someone could find what the average 2a lawsuit costs or could cost, then an amendment can be brought on the floor at town meeting to amend the warrant requiring that amount of money to be budgeted as the town will definitely face lawsuits. Not sure if that is even possible but worth looking at.
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They would be looking at a minimum of 100K but more like $250K and that's if we don't have to go back around multiple times.
 
Whenever we talk about court costs, I google up this photo and it makes me happy.

IMG_2237.jpg
 
garetjax said:
Yesterday's paper mentioned they will be bringing up an override for town meeting because they will have a 3.5 - 5.5 million budget shortfall. If possible if someone could find what the average 2a lawsuit costs or could cost, then an amendment can be brought on the floor at town meeting to amend the warrant requiring that amount of money to be budgeted as the town will definitely face lawsuits. Not sure if that is even possible but worth looking at.
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I like the way you think!
 
garetjax said:
Yesterday's paper mentioned they will be bringing up an override for town meeting because they will have a 3.5 - 5.5 million budget shortfall. If possible if someone could find what the average 2a lawsuit costs or could cost, then an amendment can be brought on the floor at town meeting to amend the warrant requiring that amount of money to be budgeted as the town will definitely face lawsuits. Not sure if that is even possible but worth looking at.
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They may mention the override at town meeting but it is not on the warrant as far as I know. My understanding is that it has to go on the ballot during town elections.
 
PennyPincher said:
They may mention the override at town meeting but it is not on the warrant as far as I know. My understanding is that it has to go on the ballot during town elections.
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You are correct. The actual override is a vote at the ballot box. The appropriations at town meeting requiring the override will say something like "subject to successful prop 2.5 override on February XX"
 
PennyPincher said:
Thanks.

And thanks to everyone else who has offered up help. we will likely need it, especially on March 23rd! We will need some support so we as residents can stay at Town Meeting all day.
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I should be able to be around to help. Food Runs, Supplies, whatever is needed.
 
noxin said:
I should be able to be around to help. Food Runs, Supplies, whatever is needed.
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Exactly what I was thinking. Also.....maybe some child care help? (bring yo women [smile]) My son is 14 and will likely be at a friend's house but others may need help to get all the adults in their house to the meeting to vote.
 
Unfortunately, I've been advised that leaving children in my care is unwise. Duct tape a few of them to a chair and no one trusts you anymore.
 
This filled almost a full page in the latest WSC newsletter. Hopefully a large chunk of the club shows up at TM. My son and I will be there.
 
garetjax said:
Yesterday's paper mentioned they will be bringing up an override for town meeting because they will have a 3.5 - 5.5 million budget shortfall. If possible if someone could find what the average 2a lawsuit costs or could cost, then an amendment can be brought on the floor at town meeting to amend the warrant requiring that amount of money to be budgeted as the town will definitely face lawsuits. Not sure if that is even possible but worth looking at.
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They might want to also remind the town that - if this law passes, then they will be massively affecting the Westford Sportsmans Club - and mentioning lawsuit for that might add some salt into the wound.

I can say that if Westford passes this law - then I will likely drop my Westford Sportsman's membership and find another place to go. Since pretty much all I shoot - is on their ban list - it's pointless for me to continue to be a member there.
 
Well I am glad they did get it in the newsletter and I will be interested to see what type of debate – discussion takes place at the next meeting on this issue.

James
 
terraformer said:
Did the town's counsel review this item on the warrant?
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By law, the AG's Office has to as well. Even Boston's AWB had a grandfather clause--it'll be interesting to see the legal wrangling Marsha's office does to get around the Due Process arguments to make this one fly.
 
OfficerObie59 said:
By law, the AG's Office has to as well. Even Boston's AWB had a grandfather clause--it'll be interesting to see the legal wrangling Marsha's office does to get around the Due Process arguments to make this one fly.
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I suspect it will look like NYs. She will let this fly though. I am pretty confident of that. She wants the governors job. If she doesn't let it fly I will be impressed and it will likely have to do with the piss poor wording and not the content. But my take on it is it's not specifically precluded by state law and has no criminal penalties, so it's likely to fly as far as the AGs office is concerned.

ETA: I am not saying it should be allowed to fly BTW, I am just saying that any AG that consistently beats down the 209A ballot questions on the flimsy basis that the questions interfere with the courts (ah no, they don't) has the whole results oriented interpretation doctrine down cold.
 
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If the numbers are there, what about adding some poison pill amendments if you have the votes? For example since more people are killed by hammers per the FBI, add them to the ban list, not to mention hands and feet account for double the amount of deaths by rifles in 2011. And then there are cars - 11000 deaths a year from drunk drivers. Far too dangerous for the public to use :)

On another note - here is an interesting stat. According to the FBI data for 2011, there were 260 justifiable homicides by private citizens (curious to see numbers for justifiable shootings where the criminal was not killed) vs 393 police officers. That is just stunning.


FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 15
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc....-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-14
 
terraformer said:
I suspect it will look like NYs. She will let this fly though. I am pretty confident of that. She wants the governors job. If she doesn't let it fly I will be impressed and it will likely have to do with the piss poor wording and not the content. But my take on it is it's not specifically precluded by state law and has no criminal penalties, so it's likely to fly as far as the AGs office is concerned.

ETA: I am not saying it should be allowed to fly BTW, I am just saying that any AG that consistently beats down the 209A ballot questions on the flimsy basis that the questions interfere with the courts (ah no, they don't) has the whole results oriented interpretation doctrine down cold.
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what is stopping other towns from enacting their own bans like Westford is doing?
 

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