Upcoming Mass Gun Control hearings...

[oldsoldier29]

DarrenL, you forgot one thing: hotdogs and beans. I legit am craving them right now.
Thanks for the kudos. That was COMPLETELY off the cuff on my part. Everything else I wanted to say, was said. So, I went with actual case law, disproving the DA, and the "tough on crime" myth. I think I kicked them in the junk . I plan on doing it again in Boston. But, let me be perfectly clear: another NES member here posted that info. I merely gave it a voice. I cannot take credit for the speech, just because I spoke to it. It wasnt mine. It does, however, give me a game plan for the next one

 

[ntomsw]

DarrenL, you forgot one thing: hotdogs and beans. I legit am craving them right now.
Thanks for the kudos. That was COMPLETELY off the cuff on my part. Everything else I wanted to say, was said. So, I went with actual case law, disproving the DA, and the "tough on crime" myth. I think I kicked them in the junk . I plan on doing it again in Boston. But, let me be perfectly clear: another NES member here posted that info. I merely gave it a voice. I cannot take credit for the speech, just because I spoke to it. It wasnt mine. It does, however, give me a game plan for the next one

I believe 'swatgig' posted the info you speak of.

He is good people.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Written testimony to the 2 Chairs of the Jt Comm on Public Safety can be E-Mailed as well https://malegislature.gov/Committees/Joint/J22. Committee Members then click on their names and view the public profile.

Better to type up a response and mail it in.

These politicians get hundreds if not thousands of emails a day. Their junior staffers peruse through them and send out a canned response...who knows if the committee members even end up seeing them.

Do NOT Email them. Send it on paper via the USPO. That is the only way we stand a chance of being read. Emails are treated like trash at the State House unless the particular Rep/Sen actually knows you personally.

Do you have any evidence that suggests the committee members actually read this bundled testimony?

No, but it is the best chance we have. Having watched committee members read magazines when our side was speaking, I know that you'll never convince some to read our views, but others will/might.

Timilty is allegedly on our side wrt most gun issues and he is one of the chairs.

 

[Ultrarunner]

I went, and sumbitted written testimony. I did not plan to speak, but so many people were rambling about "universal background checks" that I decided to speak about 140 -129A, B, and C (the FA 10 laws). Unfortunately, It took so long for me to be called (5:15pm) that somone covered the topic before me. I think it was PaulD. STOLE MY THUNDER!

But I said my piece anyway, and refuted the grandmother (from GAG, Grandmothers agaibnst gun violence, no, I did not make that up) who said after 9/11 we had to "balance the right to privacy with the right to safety". I told the committee that none of my rights are up for "balance". I will be more prepared fopr verbal testimony at middleton

Other observations
Oldsoldier29 hit a home run
The 89 year old WW2 vet was great.
There are a lot of people who are straight out OK with being sheep, and being locked in their houses. They even admitted as much.
A lot of straight out lies by some of the Anti-gunners. Many said mass had the lowest gun crime, BS, its on wikipedia as BS. Others used 25 year old study statistics. They can mostly get away with this because of the format.
To the clergy panel: I don't care what your Jesus said, or what scripture says. My right to bear arms and to self defense does not depend on them.
The tall legislative aide in the white dress who was taking sign in sheets was very attractive.
One of the NAACP kids had his pants sagging. Classy. I should have taken a picture
None of the "blacks are disproportionate victims" brought up the other, more inconvienent fact that goes with it.

Agree on all fronts, but VERY attractive may be overkill....

 

[G3]

I was there all day till the end. I am planning to be at the next meeting as well. We need to show up in bigger numbers otherwise we will loose our freedom here. Please do all you can to be there at the next hearing.

 

[Rider]

I agree that Naughton seemed to be paying attention, although his assistant was giving people some sassy looks. When I brought up the findings of the Obama research paper, and how those results(3,000,000 defensive uses a year; consistently lower injuries for gun-toting victims) he was nodding.

Frankly, I am impressed that they were even able to fake paying attention that long(I left around 3:30).

With respect to the kids, i feel bad for them. Being born a black kid in Boston is winning the lottery and then losing the ticket. You are in the most disadvantaged demographic in one of the richest places on Earth, surrounded by White people who want to just hug the desperation and poverty out of you, but not give you real opportunities.

EDIT: Another thing to bring up: The vast majority of lawful gun owners are Whites in middle-to-upper class suburbs where crime is low; the vast majority of gun violence occurs with illegal guns in poor urban areas that have high crime rates. Perhaps some causality needs to be found.

That Army kid was trying to put an argument together, he just lacked facts and coherent logic. Funny, for all the people here on NES(I'm looking at you, GOAL/Comm2A guys) reminding us that this was sworn testimony, that kid admitted to knowledge of at least half a dozen felonies and nobody wanted to talk to him afterwards.

Also, when the old grumpy guy at the beginning asked about leading the Pledge, Naughton was all over that. He said he'd be happy to, stood right up, and started reciting.

Edit 2: By the way, I was the guy that Rep. Naughton thought was David Linsky when I got up to speak. I didn't think I looked like that much of an uptight prick. Apparently I need to get a new haircut and glasses. At least now I know why the goats run from me.

 

[Rider]

I was there all day till the end. I am planning to be at the next meeting as well. We need to show up in bigger numbers otherwise we will loose our freedom here. Please do all you can to be there at the next hearing.

I agree. We need more people speaking, making their case, and being seen. Less Internet Molon Labe, more "Hi, I'm the guy who isn't giving my guns away." If you can't go, write letters or call. Then tell your friends.

At least this time around there were more younger people and a few women speaking. When most of the pro-2A speakers are ancient men, the committee has to be thinking, "You'll be dead before we pass anything."

 

[pastera]

Unfortunately I am not a very good public speaker... But my little girl did pretty well for her first time speaking in public.

The emotional testimony is getting highly repetitive with the testimony from the NAACP bus-ins bordering on hilarious. It was apparent 30 seconds into each persons speech that the violence was all gang related. PFC man was moving pretty well for being stabbed in the back six times two months earlier.

The committee does seem interested in hard data that they can hang their hat on - hopefully this is a good sign. We need a cohesive group to put together two or three small panels with coordinated testimonies each hitting one issue (constitutionality of proposed bills, realistic effects of those bills, etc.)

I have 10 more furlough days to go, so I will attempt to be at all of the hearings hitting slightly different points each time.



Edit: Rep whoring all who attended (trying not to overlook anyone)

 

[jefftk]

I agree that Naughton seemed to be paying attention, although his assistant was giving people some sassy looks.

I couldn't figure out what her deal was.... I think maybe she made that face too many times as a kid and it got stuck that way.

 

[oldsoldier29]

Naughton isn't lost to our cause either. He is a pretty level headed guy, for a politician. I think we have a better than even chance, with the Co heads we have. Naughton's assistant seemed like a grinning buffoon. I really didn't like her permanent grin. It made her seem like her mind was vacant.

Sent from my GT-P6210 using Tapatalk 2

 

[pastera]

Agree on all fronts, but VERY attractive may be overkill....

I remember a saying that fits quite well - 'There is cute and then there is ARMY cute.' I think Darren was measuring on the ARMY scale

 

[Mass-diver]

Is there any evidence that any gun law ever reduced crime?

You take away the rights of abiding citizens, for what? The evidence shows these laws simply do not reduce crime.

 

[Permanent Waves]

Folks, Thanks to all that attended the Hearing today. I saw many familiar faces.

I was happy to give verbal testimony, although the wait was long. I was the lucky guy to follow up Private First Class Firearms Expert. These poor kids were just being used as pawns by the women running their groups? And like it was not obvious? They hovered over them the whole day, and I could overhear Liz Walker (of WBZ fame) trying to organize their speech order to get the most effect of telling the plight of their neighborhoods. I do wish many of those kids, that REALLY want to make an effort, the best of luck improving their lives.

I think it was very important to be able to get up and have your say, even if it is 3 minutes of venom directed towards the current Bills. Almost all of the individual speakers were heavy Pro-2A, and I was proud as hell at some of the folks that did not hold back on their statements. They made their case calmly and without getting emotional, and the panel just had to accept it. There was no debate.

GM-GUY - please, by all means let it rip on exactly what you have stated here. Just be professional and let it fly.

For those of you that have issue with public speaking. I understand, I was nervous, just go up there and have your say, there is plenty of support in the room. Or, please bring written testimony to submit, and them stick around for as long as you can to lend support. My wife decided at the last minute to just submit written testimony rather than speaking, and that was fine. I understand that speaking to a large group can be intimidating. I think that after seeing how the testimonies went, and that there were very few questions asked by the panel, my wife wishes she had spoken instead.

Folks PLEASE - we need as many of you to speak out now for what you believe. I understand the hearing schedule is a disaster, and we all have lives, jobs, those that count on us... but we need your voices heard. Please make the time if you can... I personally want to hear what you have to say, it only inspires me more. Please consider coming out for the next hearing(s).

Oldsoldier29 - You hit one out of the park Brother! Was a beautiful thing to hear.

 

[Ultrarunner]

A few more things:

The head of the NAACP Boston chapter claimed that the NAACP is the oldest/largest civil rights organization in the country, he is factually incorrect, that would be the NRA much to the liberals chagrin.

Everyone keeps blaming the NRA for selling guns but their incredible lack of knowledge/background shines through, the NSSF was there and spoke about their fix NICS program which antis have NO CLUE about...or even who the NSSF is...

I intend to expose the Bloomberg machine for what it really is, because disparaging the NRA--a membership association--and not Bloombergs single handed anti freedom funding fetish is the only "injustice" in the liberal doublespeak we saw today...

 

[pastera]

Is there any evidence that any gun law ever reduced crime?

Shall issue laws
Castle Doctrine Laws
Stand Your Ground Laws

 

[jefftk]

The head of the NAACP Boston chapter claimed that the NAACP is the oldest/largest civil rights organization in the country, he is factually incorrect, that would be the NRA much to the liberals chagrin.

I caught that as well....

There was also plenty of the usual "OMG the NRA is buying off politicians and they're just supporting the manufacturers who deal death"


A few people mentioned him before, but the old grumpy guy who asked for the pledge, and who said we need to teach gun safety - and the constitution - in schools again is "Iron" Mike Rabid Republican Blog

I felt he was a little too adversarial to the committee for my taste.... he also pretty much directly insulted Naughton's assistant which, although admittedly amusing, I thought was a bit out of line. In his defense though, she was wearing that stupid grin the entire time, so he may have thought she was confused and/or scowling at him.

 

[chindogg]

Posting here for your daily LOL

I'm sitting in cruiser and a woman pulls up and asks me how to get to Assumption for hearings. Her friend shortly joins her.
I play dumb and ask what's going on... and they say its for gun control.
Me: To make gun laws better or worse?
Them: Depends on what you believe in
Me: Oh
Them: We're for tightening laws and better background checks to make you SAFER (LOLOLO)
Me: I'm pretty safe already. I have a gun. Too bad I can't make it
Them: Yes. It would be awesome to have a police officer help our cause
Me: I think you've got me confused for one of your supporters. I support getting rid of most of our draconian gun laws


Them:

Me: Most cops I know are like ME

+1. Thank you sir

 

[Ultrarunner]

I caught that as well....

There was also plenty of the usual "OMG the NRA is buying off politicians and they're just supporting the manufacturers who deal death"


A few people mentioned him before, but the old grumpy guy who asked for the pledge, and who said we need to teach gun safety - and the constitution - in schools again is "Iron" Mike Rabid Republican Blog

I felt he was a little too adversarial to the committee for my taste.... he also pretty much directly insulted Naughton's assistant which, although admittedly amusing, I thought was a bit out of line. In his defense though, she was wearing that stupid grin the entire time, so he may have thought she was confused and/or scowling at him.

True, he would fare better at a debate I suppose, it was just nice to hear someone tell it like it is after so much BS....

I actually know the aide...she is very liberal and aspiring to work in public office in Massachusetts. I was fighting back laughter when he put her in her place..

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I was there this morning as well, but wasn't interested in speaking. Maybe later.

As I entered the campus it occurred to me that Comm2A may have missed a good opportunity to connect with a lot of gun owners who don't know what we do. We probably should have had a couple people pamphleting or putting cards under the windshield wipers of cars. I noticed that an anti group had a sign out front and a table set up in the hall. Missed opportunity.

Part of me thinks the committee members have already made up their minds. But that would be a very poor excuse not to represent. I have to believe that the volume and sincerity of folks on our side should give the committee members at least a little pause before doing anything stupid.

I did notice our old friend Angus McQuilken skulking about. He was out in the hallway on his cell phone helping people prepare their talking points.

The single biggest problem I have with the testimony offered by the antis is their continuing attempts to assert a connection between private gun ownership and street violence. They are none too subtle in their efforts to hold the Second Amendment and gun owners responsible to some degree for New Town, gang violence, etc.

 

[crazymjb]

Just sent out a very length email to all those in the committee. I am going to attempt to call all there offices in the coming weeks.

Mike

 

[Ultrarunner]

I remember a saying that fits quite well - 'There is cute and then there is ARMY cute.' I think Darren was measuring on the ARMY scale

+1

 

[vipprimo]

If you can't show can you mail in something?

 

[daddysuperfly]

A few people mentioned him before, but the old grumpy guy who asked for the pledge, and who said we need to teach gun safety - and the constitution - in schools again is "Iron" Mike Rabid Republican Blog

I felt he was a little too adversarial to the committee for my taste.... he also pretty much directly insulted Naughton's assistant which, although admittedly amusing, I thought was a bit out of line. In his defense though, she was wearing that stupid grin the entire time, so he may have thought she was confused and/or scowling at him.

i'll admit, i did laugh. Then i felt a little bad for her.... but then after seeing that smug look on her face all day, and the constant strain of trying to hold back laughter, i didn't feel so bad.

and was it just me, or was that phone going off all over the place instead of at three minute intervals? i don't know if she was getting text messages, or if she could manually hit the button or whatever, but it seemed to be all over the place.

 

[DarrenL]

I remember a saying that fits quite well - 'There is cute and then there is ARMY cute.' I think Darren was measuring on the ARMY scale

I'm on the electrical engineer scale. I'd put a ring on it.

 

[pastera]

i'll admit, i did laugh. Then i felt a little bad for her.... but then after seeing that smug look on her face all day, and the constant strain of trying to hold back laughter, i didn't feel so bad.

and was it just me, or was that phone going off all over the place instead of at three minute intervals? i don't know if she was getting text messages, or if she could manually hit the button or whatever, but it seemed to be all over the place.

She was banging on the button to shut people up - not that very many noticed.

 

[Bill Katt]

I was only there for the last three hours or so of this hearing.
My observations...
...Pro 2A folks spoke using facts/data and spoke from the heart and all the ones that I was able to hear did an excellent job.
...Anti 2A folks all pretty much said the same thing, which was the canned talking points from MAIG, GAG, Million Moms, etc. Most of which have nothing to do with Ma. since all the crap their pushing for is ALREADY on the books here.
...I was actually a little impressed that the committee members seemed to actually pay attention to what was being said rather than being in their own little worlds, texting, flirting with assistants and interns like they did at the hearing I went to at the Statehouse last year.
...Naughton's assistant went from that silly grin to almost all out laughter when Grandma got up there and said she was a member of GAG.
...That last girl that spoke made my ears bleed with her 'super duper enthusiastic attitude' towards taking away our rights. All I could think of was Brian Griffin's girlfriend Jillian from Family Guy that ended every one of her sentences with an upward inflection. Thought it was kind of funny that she was the only anti that got zero applause. (Yes, she was the one that was saying something about never giving up.)
...As to the woman in the white dress......I'd hit it!

 

[Rider]

The #1 girl from LEAF was just. so. perky! I feel bad for the boy though. He wants to get laid so bad that he'll say anything, including exactly what the first three girls already said.

That has me thinking though, Do you think that 2-3 years from now, colleges will be getting 4 million applications from kids who all formed their own gun control group and lobbied to enact stricter laws?

 

[PaulD]

I was there this morning as well, but wasn't interested in speaking. Maybe later.

As I entered the campus it occurred to me that Comm2A may have missed a good opportunity to connect with a lot of gun owners who don't know what we do. We probably should have had a couple people pamphleting or putting cards under the windshield wipers of cars. I noticed that an anti group had a sign out front and a table set up in the hall. Missed opportunity.

Part of me thinks the committee members have already made up their minds. But that would be a very poor excuse not to represent. I have to believe that the volume and sincerity of folks on our side should give the committee members at least a little pause before doing anything stupid.

I did notice our old friend Angus McQuilken skulking about. He was out in the hallway on his cell phone helping people prepare their talking points.

The single biggest problem I have with the testimony offered by the antis is their continuing attempts to assert a connection between private gun ownership and street violence. They are none too subtle in their efforts to hold the Second Amendment and gun owners responsible to some degree for New Town, gang violence, etc.

Yes, it would have been good to have a Comm2A rep out front. One guy was handing out flyers that talked about Linsky's bill. I had seen the flyers before and knew all about what was in it, so I didn't take one. But it's a good technique.

My biggest take away from this was that the Antis are organized. They had all the panel testimonies and our side had none. Those panel testimonies sucked up time and gave a consistent message across that period. Our side *needs* to do the same.

DarrenL, sorry for taking the FA10 topic. A lot of what I wanted to cover was similarly taken so I improvised. I was also sick of hearing the dolts say MA needs universal background checks.

Speaking of that, I talked to Rep. James Dwyer about this. I asked him if he knows about the FA10 system and he didn't!!! Really!?! I guess I shouldn't be shocked but HOLY ****ING SHIT! These legislators don't know the existing laws. We're really screwed if that's the case. Similarly, I've spoken to Rep. Golden and he said he regretted voting for the '98 Gun Control Act because he didn't realize at the time how screwed up the bill was.

I plan on calling Dwyer's office to go over the laws but this is something that should be an organized effort IMO.

Finally, Oldsoldier29, once again, great job. Your delivery was perfect. I'd suggest that testimony should get repeated at subsequent hearings and hopefully it goes early so the Antis hear it before leaving. I'd also like to see the guys who referenced Glidden's course go earlier.

 

[PaulD]

i'll admit, i did laugh. Then i felt a little bad for her.... but then after seeing that smug look on her face all day, and the constant strain of trying to hold back laughter, i didn't feel so bad.

and was it just me, or was that phone going off all over the place instead of at three minute intervals? i don't know if she was getting text messages, or if she could manually hit the button or whatever, but it seemed to be all over the place.

I had a stop watch widget going on my laptop and I'd say pretty much every testimony went over the 3 minutes. Linsky got about 15 minutes which is pretty offensive given how much time he has to talk on this subject and he's getting paid to do so.

 

[Rider]

My biggest take away from this was that the Antis are organized. They had all the panel testimonies and our side had none. Those panel testimonies sucked up time and gave a consistent message across that period. Our side *needs* to do the same.

I agree with you. We need some folks who don't have day jobs, or for who 2A is there day job, along with generous funding by Bloomberg. Let's be honest: most of the anti speakers were either church groups or recently formed anti-2A groups who suddenly have the money for banners, full color stickers, handouts, etc. That stuff just doesn't appear.

Finally, Oldsoldier, once again, great job. I'd suggest that testimony should get repeated at subsequent hearings and hopefully it goes early so the Antis hear it before leaving. I'd also like to see the guys who referenced Glidden's course go earlier.

We don't have any control over who goes when, of course. I got there at 9:15 and was half way down page three of sign-in sheet. Half the people ahead of me said 'no' to testimony, and I didn't get called until ~3:15.

WRT Linsky, they didn't time any officials who spoke, well, except a couple of semi-officials on our side(former Worcester sheriff) and they certainly didnt enforce the time on any panels. But they mostly let our side ramble on too, in the cases where there was rambling.

Thanks to all who went, all who testified, and everyone who is writing and calling. Keep it up. To those of you who haven't, stand up now.