Tulsa cop not guilty of first degree manslaughter

[rwl1955]

Guy didn't obey commands, driving high on PCP, what could go wrong? Lucky he didn't kill someone w/his car. It's a fact female cops are more prone to shoot rather than get in a physical confrontation for the simple reason they're not as big and strong as men.

 

[S. Kelly]

He was high on PCP, so who escalated what? And they managed to NOT shoot him for what, 10 minutes? Until he ignored them completely and went to reach into his car... This wasn't a traffic stop. This was a loon who stopped his vehicle in the middle of the road and got out to behave oddly in the middle of the road, resulting in calls to the PD, and the officers just happened to be responding to another call nearby.

Well put.

 

[Ringworm]

Guy didn't obey commands, driving high on PCP, what could go wrong? Lucky he didn't kill someone w/his car. It's a fact female cops are more prone to shoot rather than get in a physical confrontation for the simple reason they're not as big and strong as men.

Can't do the job cuz you're weak? Don't insist you're equal, then. You're anything but....

 

[Dadstoys]

The guy got shot because she was afraid.
Look at the reaction of the other cops after she shoots and you have your answer.
Yaa for hiring quotas .

 

[cmcgraw2]

BLM protests in the Trump era - looks like a few dozen people showed up. Thanks Obama for all the looting and rioting over the last few years..

Protest after Shelby verdict spills from courthouse plaza to Mayo Hotel, then blocks traffic on Denver Avenue

 

[Bonesinium]

Defense probably spent 5 seconds on that: Can't expect a cop in a deadly threat scenario to see if a transparent material is up or down can we? Lots of noise, yelling etc

Oh, so now it's not that he reached into the car but you can't expect cops to see. Got it. And by deadly threat scenario do you mean the cops posing the deadly threat? Or maybe if she wasn't such a ****ing pussy a guy walking away from her with his hands up isn't actually a deadly threat.

Even had their lie about him reaching into the car been true, what did they think he was going to do? Unless it was detonate a bomb it still doesn't make him a threat.

Only cops can kill people and get away with such flimsy and ridiculous excuses for why.

 

[oldguy68]

So the police get to shoot and kill someone. Just for reaching for something..

How many times have we seen this where the person didn't have a weapon in the car or on them when the police shot them?

What if the driver was not from the US and does not understand the English language?
What if the driver was deaf?
What if the driver was elderly?
What if the driver was having a stroke or heart attack?
What if he was having an allergic reaction to something they ate or medications they were taking?
How about if they are experiencing heat stoke?
These are all realistic reasons why a person might not instantly comply to a police command.

So according to some here those are all not the problems of the officer and they had justification to kill him if he doesn't respond in 10 minutes.

I can only hope if your having a stroke and an officer responds that they wait longer than ten minutes before opening fire on you!

Seems to me that the police should be more calm in these situations and be better trained to handle a situation like the one here.

An officer should have to wait till they visibly see a weapon before they will be justified in firing theirs!

The other three officers made the right choice. One did not!

If we started finding the officers guilty of murder in these instances I bet the number of them would drop dramatically..
If they are wrong and shoot an unarmed person then they should be held to the same laws as the rest of us!

 

[rwl1955]

It's real simple, comply w/lawful orders from a cop, keep your hands in plain view and don't something stupid. Don't comply with lawful commands, resist and fight a cop then take your chances w/the outcome.

 

[xtry51]

Based on what cops are taught: don't let suspects get back into the vehicle I think the jury was forced into the decision they made.
The Dinkheller video a lot of cops watch in the Academy:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/bearin...s-return-vehicles-murder-kyle-dinkheller/amp/

I think the jury will explain as much once the mushroom cloud clears.

That being said, I think she should have gone hands on with the guy. She had backup (another cop tazed him at the same time she shot the guy). I do think her size and gender contributed to her not going hands on and resorting to lethal force to stop a perceived threat. I don't have her stats, but Crutcher is listed at 6ft 4, 240 lbs, and I doubt she was anywhere near his size. I think the "big scarey black guy" got shot by the "physically and mentally unequipped white female cop." I don't think it should have gone down the way it did.

Here's my problem with this. YOU VOLUNTEERED TO BE A POLICE OFFICER. You didn't get drafted. You are making the decision to take a job where violent confrontation is literally the job description.

If she can't subdue a suspect without using a gun, she shouldn't be a cop, period.

 

[cams]

It's real simple, comply w/lawful orders from a cop, keep your hands in plain view and don't something stupid. Don't comply with lawful commands, resist and fight a cop then take your chances w/the outcome.

It's absolutely not that simple, by far. There are people who have all kinds of issues that may lead to them not understanding what's happening. The strobing lights can set off one person, where another may be deaf, mute, have a physical ailment that precludes them from raising their arms, they may be an EDP, or drunk/high on something and not dealing in reality at the time, add another 100 things that could be happening with that person at the time that a street level cop just isn't geared to assess in an immediate sense. None of these things warrant summary execution in this country.

 

[Pyromancer]

Oh, so now it's not that he reached into the car but you can't expect cops to see. Got it. And by deadly threat scenario do you mean the cops posing the deadly threat? Or maybe if she wasn't such a ****ing pussy a guy walking away from her with his hands up isn't actually a deadly threat.

Even had their lie about him reaching into the car been true, what did they think he was going to do? Unless it was detonate a bomb it still doesn't make him a threat.

Only cops can kill people and get away with such flimsy and ridiculous excuses for why.

Even the prosecution would have to concede the window being up or down thing. Glass is transparent. You ever see people or animals walk/fly into a glass pane? Happens all the time, and they always think the glass wasn't there. That's before taking into account a perceived deadly threat scenario.

Idk if the term "bomb" was used but eyewitnesses did state Crutcher said his car was going to blow up.

And yes, only cops get to kill people this way. If you or I had even pepper sprayed/restrained Crutcher in this scenario we'd be looking at potential time.

 

[Pyromancer]

So the police get to shoot and kill someone. Just for reaching for something..

How many times have we seen this where the person didn't have a weapon in the car or on them when the police shot them?

What if the driver was not from the US and does not understand the English language?
What if the driver was deaf?
What if the driver was elderly?
What if the driver was having a stroke or heart attack?
What if he was having an allergic reaction to something they ate or medications they were taking?
How about if they are experiencing heat stoke?
These are all realistic reasons why a person might not instantly comply to a police command.

So according to some here those are all not the problems of the officer and they had justification to kill him if he doesn't respond in 10 minutes.

I can only hope if your having a stroke and an officer responds that they wait longer than ten minutes before opening fire on you!

Seems to me that the police should be more calm in these situations and be better trained to handle a situation like the one here.

An officer should have to wait till they visibly see a weapon before they will be justified in firing theirs!

The other three officers made the right choice. One did not!

If we started finding the officers guilty of murder in these instances I bet the number of them would drop dramatically..
If they are wrong and shoot an unarmed person then they should be held to the same laws as the rest of us!

They didn't kill this old indian guy who didn't speak english. Just partially paralyzed him. All charges against the cop were dropped. Cop got his job back too.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcn...artially-paralyzed-indian-grandfather-n573806

 

[rwl1955]

It's absolutely not that simple, by far. There are people who have all kinds of issues that may lead to them not understanding what's happening. The strobing lights can set off one person, where another may be deaf, mute, have a physical ailment that precludes them from raising their arms, they may be an EDP, or drunk/high on something and not dealing in reality at the time, add another 100 things that could be happening with that person at the time that a street level cop just isn't geared to assess in an immediate sense. None of these things warrant summary execution in this country.

*******
No execution, simply follow orders. If they can't they shouldn't be driving. This case was not about some simpleton pulled over for a broken tail light, it was a idiot wasted on PCP who stopped his car in the middle of the street and was acting erratically. When he decided to smoke PCP and drive he made a fatal decision. Actions have consequences.

 

[cams]

*******
No execution, simply follow orders. If they can't they shouldn't be driving. This case was not about some simpleton pulled over for a broken tail light, it was a idiot wasted on PCP who stopped his car in the middle of the street and was acting erratically. When he decided to smoke PCP and drive he made a fatal decision. Actions have consequences.

I agree with you in theory, I'm a firm believer that stupid should be painful. That said, that's just not the way it works, by law, or by rights and liberties as a citizen. Dealing with dozens of people on a daily basis is not an easy task, if a cop is there it's generally because something bad has happened, or is about to happen, the people involved may be about to have the worst day of their lives and the cop has to figure out a way to handle that and to keep the peace. If they can't do that in good faith without deciding that they are the entirety of the justice system because someone failed to heed their commands, then they should find other work.

Cops used to be peace keepers, we got away from that and now seem
to be bashing heads because someone didn't jump up fast enough and show his papers when spoken to.

Im drifting here but again, there could be a 101 reasons why someone doesn't comply, you gotta be smart and shooting that person should be the very last option, and only then when the non-compliant party becomes an immediate threat to you or others.

 

[rwl1955]

I agree with you in theory, I'm a firm believer that stupid should be painful. That said, that's just not the way it works, by law, or by rights and liberties as a citizen. Dealing with dozens of people on a daily basis is not an easy task, if a cop is there it's generally because something bad has happened, or is about to happen, the people involved may be about to have the worst day of their lives and the cop has to figure out a way to handle that and to keep the peace. If they can't do that in good faith without deciding that they are the entirety of the justice system because someone failed to heed their commands, then they should find other work.

Cops used to be peace keepers, we got away from that and now seem
to be bashing heads because someone didn't jump up fast enough and show his papers when spoken to.

Im drifting here but again, there could be a 101 reasons why someone doesn't comply, you gotta be smart and shooting that person should be the very last option, and only then when the non-compliant party becomes an immediate threat to you or others.

******
That's because anti-cop liberals blame cops for every violent encounter w/a minority. Whether BLACK LIES MATTER or the illegal immigration nonsense liberals blame cops for enforcing the law. Cops were demonized by the Obama administration and used as whipping boys for the failed policies of the left. We have a lot of cop haters here also but remember, cops enforce the laws the gutless pols pass.

 

[cams]

******
That's because anti-cop liberals blame cops for every violent encounter w/a minority. Whether BLACK LIES MATTER or the illegal immigration nonsense liberals blame cops for enforcing the law. Cops were demonized by the Obama administration and used as whipping boys for the failed policies of the left. We have a lot of cop haters here also but remember, cops enforce the laws the gutless pols pass.

While I don't completely disagree with your above post, it doesn't really have anything to do with the topic. If I missed something please elaborate.

 

[SKumar]

Cops used to be peace keepers, we got away from that

Power corrupts...

 

[In God We Trust]

Haters gonna hate

 

[Pyromancer]

Letter from juror:
http://www.fox23.com/news/juror-shares-letter-from-betty-shelby-trial/524388641

 

[Bonesinium]

The Jury, without knowledge of the guidelines learned through law enforcement training, believes that a Taser attempt to subdue Mr. Crutcher before he reached his vehicle could have saved his life and that potential scenario was seemingly an option available to her; however, there was no evidence presented that her extensive training allowed such an option.

I think this says it all. What better reason to intentionally give cops shitty training? As long as cops aren't trained to be reasonable or use the least amount of force necessary, they can't be held liable! It's brilliant really.

Jury believes should could have handled it differently and not killed him, but because she wasn't trained that way it's not her fault. So she's good to go.

And some still wonder why people have a problem with the policing system as a whole. It's corrupt by design. It's designed to protect cops regardless of their actions. It has no regard for public safety.