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Trump angling to ban those with mental illness from owning guns

maybe if we had clairvoyant people who could lie in warm tubs of water, call them "pre-cogs", and alert us to any pending shooting crime about to happen. We could call this place the PreCrime unit.

;)
 
sig shooter said:
The medial field is full of leftists, I had a nurse threaten to slash my tires because I voted for trump. I wouldn’t be hard imo.
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There’s definitely too few of us who aren’t leftists. The Massachusetts Nurse’s Association threw its full support to Sanders last election. Kinda bullshit how you have to join a union and that union takes your money and supports someone you’d never vote for.
 
Woodsy said:
I respect your position but mine is that the argument of more people carrying will need to be followed with those people being vetted and that means a mental health check. I do think we need to guard our schools better and I also believe our crap position on mental health for the past 20+ years is coming home to roost and we can do something about it. Plus I also know a lot of people that carry would have more loads in their pants than loads into the perp given a shootout situation but that's another topic all together.
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Vetting and metal health? I agree we can do more about the mental health of the population as a whole. But if you can carry a gun oustide of a school your quaified to carry one in a school.

I just dont see how your going from more people carrying = more mental heath checks... there currently arent metal health check "will need to be followed by mental health check" i think not
 
MGnoob said:
Vetting and metal health? I agree we can do more about the mental health of the population as a whole. But if you can carry a gun oustide of a school your quaified to carry one in a school.

I just dont see how your going from more people carrying = more mental heath checks... there currently arent metal health check "will need to be followed by mental health check" i think not
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Carrying outside a school for personal protection is lot different than being able to react in a situation with screaming kids being shot in a school situation in order to defend them and or take out an active shooter. Those are much different scenarios and the reaction to them very different.
 
You could apply that argument to to any different location.
Im ok with kids 18+ carrying.

So your against campus carry? Those students will be able to carry with no training but the teachers need addition training?
 
Slippery slope.

Mental health definition is very wide. We are a Prozac nation. Many people will not pass.
Plus we have this to worry about:
Political Abuse of Psychiatry—An Historical Overview | Schizophrenia Bulletin | Oxford Academic

According to a position article of the Global Initiative on Psychiatry (GIP), “political abuse of psychiatry refers to the misuse of psychiatric diagnosis, treatment and detention for the purposes of obstructing the fundamental human rights of certain individuals and groups in a given society. The practice is common to but not exclusive to countries governed by totalitarian regimes. In these regimes abuses of the human rights of those politically opposed to the state are often hidden under the guise of psychiatric treatment. In democratic societies ‘whistle blowers’ on covertly illegal practices by major corporations have been subjected to the political misuse of psychiatry.”
 
Woodsy said:
Carrying outside a school for personal protection is lot different than being able to react in a situation with screaming kids being shot in a school situation in order to defend them and or take out an active shooter. Those are much different scenarios and the reaction to them very different.
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Exactly! Shooter inside of the school is a very bad situation. To take him down without casualties is very difficult.

The focus should be on prevention. This is what failed absolutely in this case.
 
10thSFFD said:
Exactly! Shooter inside of the school is a very bad situation. To take him down without casualties is very difficult.

The focus should be on prevention. This is what failed absolutely in this case.
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But how? Be specific, not just it's a MH issue. What law would you pass that could be applied to everyone and only catch the crazies, without violating everyone's rights. And couldn't be abused.
 
Slippery slope. If your kid is diagnosed adhd.... is that a mental illness that follows them into adulthood? I'm sure teachers, admins, and doctors will have new guidelines on wgat add is, much in the way autism was expanded. Only this won't be for the benefit of the kid.
 
42! said:
But how? Be specific, not just it's a MH issue. What law would you pass that could be applied to everyone and only catch the crazies, without violating everyone's rights. And couldn't be abused.
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Maybe I would not try to pass any laws which prevent nothing but punish law abiding citizens. I would get rid of backpacks because carrying heavy backpacks is not good for any kid and it is not required anyway. Kids will bring nothing with them. Everything will be in the school. School will have a card scanner system combined with a fingerprint or retina scanner. Yes, this will be expensive but we have to start investing in the security anyway. Metal detectors at the main entrance which will be supervised by staff, not the outside company. Staff knows kids.

The advantage in schools is ability of children and the staff to recognize intruders. That is a huge benefit as oppose to airplanes, for example. If there will be a problematic child in the class this child will have a very hard time to bring anything metal in the school. Yes, he/she can decide to choke the other kids, but that will not result in high casualties.
 
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10thSFFD said:
Maybe I would not try to pass any laws which prevent nothing but punish law abiding citizens. I would get rid of backpacks because carrying heavy backpacks is not good for any kid and it is not required anyway. Kids will bring nothing with them. Everything will be in the school. School will have a card scanner system combined with a fingerprint or retina scanner. Yes, this will be expensive but we have to start investing in the security anyway. Metal detectors at the main entrance which will be supervised by staff, not the outside company. Staff knows kids.

The advantage in schools is ability of children and the staff to recognize intruders. That is a huge benefit as oppose to airplanes, for example. If there will be a problematic child in the class this child will have a very hard time to bring anything metal in the school. Yes, he/she can decide to choke the other kids, but that will not result in high casualties.
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There used to be a certain statist on here who was big into retinal scanning, facial recog etc.
Forget who it was but he basically said it was for the children. Nearly there now.
 
cams said:
All it would’ve taken was one of those boxes to be checked “Yes” and I’d be done as far any type of firearms ownership
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I have a huge concern about Vets and PTSD whether correctly diagnosed or not.
Who better to label as mentally unfit, that than those who know best how to use the firearms that they are going after, than combat Vets?
If I wanted to disarm the populace I would start there as well.
When and if this ever happens you will not be alone Brothers. I swear.
~Matt
 
Woodsy said:
Carrying outside a school for personal protection is lot different than being able to react in a situation with screaming kids being shot in a school situation in order to defend them and or take out an active shooter. Those are much different scenarios and the reaction to them very different.
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We send our very best to fight and die against peoples who wipe their ass with their hands.
I'm sure there are many who would volunteer to provide overwatch for our kids...

On the plus side, I like the idea of our young men and women seeing first hand the self-respect the American Fighting Soldier/Sailor/Marine/Airman/Coastie has and that will rub off. Think a toned-down Sparta.
 
The president had better find a narrow definition to Mental Illness as regards a PP, or it’ll be used as a whole new justification for “no guns for you” bs. I know it will lead a lot of people not to get common meds for things like anxiety. This could get fubar.
 
In MA I’m already a felon for having an assault weapon.

Didn’t GM-Guy have a thread about not following laws?

How is being judged mentally defective (or whatever it’s called) by the state any different than being deemed a felon by the state.
 
10thSFFD said:
Maybe I would not try to pass any laws which prevent nothing but punish law abiding citizens. I would get rid of backpacks because carrying heavy backpacks is not good for any kid and it is not required anyway. Kids will bring nothing with them. Everything will be in the school. School will have a card scanner system combined with a fingerprint or retina scanner. Yes, this will be expensive but we have to start investing in the security anyway. Metal detectors at the main entrance which will be supervised by staff, not the outside company. Staff knows kids.

The advantage in schools is ability of children and the staff to recognize intruders. That is a huge benefit as oppose to airplanes, for example. If there will be a problematic child in the class this child will have a very hard time to bring anything metal in the school. Yes, he/she can decide to choke the other kids, but that will not result in high casualties.
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You're going to notice something like this on your taxes, and it's not going to be a small amount. Are you ok with that? It'll take a special vote to put through that kind of tax increase.
 
42! said:
But how? Be specific, not just it's a MH issue. What law would you pass that could be applied to everyone and only catch the crazies, without violating everyone's rights. And couldn't be abused.
Click to expand...

And here's the thing: it isn't just the "crazies" - there are a host of others that may try some kind of horseshit. The Islamists come immediately to mind. Gang warfare: group of suburban kids didn't pay their dealer this week. Etc. There still needs to be a last line of defense distributed throughout the building.
 
D
snax said:
Slippery slope. If your kid is diagnosed adhd.... is that a mental illness that follows them into adulthood? I'm sure teachers, admins, and doctors will have new guidelines on wgat add is, much in the way autism was expanded. Only this won't be for the benefit of the kid.
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Depending on the severity it might until adulthood and then be reviewed
 
I
enbloc said:
We send our very best to fight and die against peoples who wipe their ass with their hands.
I'm sure there are many who would volunteer to provide overwatch for our kids...

On the plus side, I like the idea of our young men and women seeing first hand the self-respect the American Fighting Soldier/Sailor/Marine/Airman/Coastie has and that will rub off. Think a toned-down Sparta.
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I think using some of our veterans would be a good idea. I'm not sure some 20 yr old girl from Lesley college who has never touched firearm I. Her life, maybe even despises them, would be the right person to arm. Give it over to veterans who already have most of the training
 
SpaceCritter said:
And here's the thing: it isn't just the "crazies" - there are a host of others that may try some kind of horseshit. The Islamists come immediately to mind. Gang warfare: group of suburban kids didn't pay their dealer this week. Etc. There still needs to be a last line of defense distributed throughout the building.
Click to expand...

That's a good argument for allowing teachers/staff (with training) to carry. It addresses a broader concern and has benefits beyond dealing with the "crazies". I defined a narrow scope because it's easier to talk about, but you are absolutely correct.

The more I think about this the more I doubt there is a practical mental health solution. Not that there isn't a MH solution, just that I don't see it being used. It would be simple to just use the existing laws and when there is overwhelming evidence of concern the PD go to a an appropriate doctor, have them review the evidence and either recommend an eval (and get a judge's order) or not. I'm not talking involuntary commitment, I'm thinking a trip to the local hospital for an eval and then further recommendations (made immediately, not put them on the street and file a report). Given the current attitudes I'd be more concerned that nothing will be done when there is extensive evidence, than that it will be used when when someone post a single picture of themselves at the range. A perfect solution, definitely not. Likely to be used, I doubt it.

So we have to go with something else. Very much the brute force approach. Arm teachers/staff, WITH TRAINING. Not as a requirement, individuals can make their own decision if they want to participate. And the number and who participates would not be released, to maximize the deterrent side of it. A perfect solution, No. But life isn't perfect and we do the best we can.
 
Picton said:
I got nothing.

I don’t think it can be done to any reasonably accurate standard, or at least not accurately enough that I’d feel comfortable using it as a basis to infringe ANY enumerated rights.

So I think focusing on preemptive diagnoses of mental disorders is a dead end. This is one of those cases, to me, where our freedom leads to less safety.
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right we are calling on a judgement with out any real way to tell if someone is mentally ill in the way of knowing they will be violent.

What would people think/say if .gov came along and said if you take psychotropic drugs you are mentally ill and cant buy guns, drive vote or make any legal descisions

Psychotropic drug - MedicineNet
Definition of Psychotropic drug
Psychotropic drug: Any drug capable of affecting the mind, emotions, and behavior. Some legal drugs, such as lithium for bipolar disorder, are psychotropic. Many illicit drugs, such as cocaine, are also psychotropic. Also known as psychodynamic drug.
 
The Dems are desperate to get any gun control passed so they can brag about it. Hopefully POTUS is pandering to them and waiting for the hoopla to die down. The Presidents advisors hopefully are advising him that no matter what he does on gun control the libs will still hate him and if he caves to the anti's he'll lose votes. Tucker Carlson destroyed another CT. liberal lawmaker last night who kept referencing Australia's firearm confiscation.
 
This Florida school district was touted by Obama for their 2013 policy change to stop reporting assaults and other crimes to the cops, to reduce the number of minorities in juvenile detention. So Cruz was never reported to the cops, per this new policy.

Just fix that nonsense.
 
robjax said:
yeah, I'll have to let him know my disappointment and that if he signs any of this into law he will have lost my support form this day forward...but I'm only one voice. this would be better received coming from the NRA and local gun owners groups as well as individual gun owners. I'll do my part though.
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Me too. Gonna write email and call. And respond to his many emails he sends. Also going to send back in those surveys I get in the mail and let Them know my thoughts (without any money). I’ll write some actual letters too. Big disappointment from Trump.
 

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