Trnsporting ammunition, powder and components across state lines by ground

Bill Nance

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As some of you already know, we are moving out to Washington State late this summer.

We have a pretty good stock of ammo and reloading components (primers, powder etc).

What I'm not clear on is how we can get this stuff from point A to point B. We're either renting a moving van or shipping our furniture commercially and driving our cars across country. Ideally we'd transport the stuff I'm concerned about (reloading components and ammo) in our cars as we drive across the country.

Are there any legal issues with this? I don't want to get stopped in Wisconsin or NJ and go to jail on some BS charge.

Anyone know what the laws are or where to find them?
 
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As some of you already know, we are moving out to Washington State late this summer.

We have a pretty good stock of ammo and reloading components (primers, powder etc).

What I'm not clear on is how we can get this stuff from point A to point B. We're either renting a moving van or shipping our furniture commercially and driving our cars across country. Ideally we'd transport the stuff I'm concerned about (reloading components and ammo) in our cars as we drive across the country.

Are there any legal issues with this? I don't want to get stopped in Wisconsin or NJ and go to jail on some BS charge.

Anyone know what the laws are or where to find them?
Transport as advised in FOPA, and only stop for food, rest, etc in gun friendly places.
 

NHAtHeart

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Make sure the states you're traveling through don't have an issue with it, if you have to avoid a particular state maybe it's worth it to add a couple hours onto you're journey to be all set.
 
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I tried google fu - can't find the DOT haz mat limits for gun powder or primers. I have been told the black powder has more stringent limits.
 
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Finalygotabeltfed

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Here: http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/safety/storage_handling.aspx#recommendations

10-3 SMOKELESS PROPELLANTS. 10-3.1 Quantities of smokeless propellants not exceeding 25 LB (11.3kg), in shipping containers approved by the U.S. Department of Transportation, may be transported in a private vehicle.
10-3.2 Quantities of smokeless propellants exceeding 25 lb (11.3kg) but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), transported in a private vehicle, shall be transported in a portable magazine having wood walls of at least 1-inc. (25.4-mm) nominal thickness.
10-3.3 Transportation of more than 50 lb (22.7 kg) of smokeless propellants in a private vehicle is prohibited.
10-3.4 Commercial shipments of smokeless propellants in quantities not exceeding 100 lb. (45.4kg) are classified for transportation purposes as flammable solids when packaged according to U.S. Department of Transportation Hazardous Materials Regulations. (Title 49, Code of Federal Regulations, Park 173.197a), and shall be transported accordingly.
10-3.5 Commercial shipments of smokeless propellants exceeding 100 lb (45.4 kg) or not packaged in accordance with the regulations cited in 10-3.4 shall be transported according to the U. S. Department of Transportation regulations for Class B propellant explosives.
10-3.6 Smokeless propellants shall be stored in shipping containers specified by U. S. Department of Transportation Hazardous Materials Regulations.
 
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For most of the trip it shouldn't be an issue. I'd avoid any states that require a permit to own any firearm, since they're the ones most likely to require said permit to own ammunition (and thus components). Even NY requires licenses only for handguns - thus those long gun owners without licenses don't need the license to have ammo.

Avoid Illinois for sure. If you want a good source, go read NRA's summaries of state gun laws to get an overview of each state's laws.
 

swampy

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Sell your primers and powders to us and buy new in Washington. That way you have no headaches, you won't be looking over you shoulder the whole trip, and you'll have more room in the trunk for other stuff. The NRA would probably be the best source of info on the laws transporting primers and powders across the country.

If you have an address ahead of time you can pay the hazmat fee and UPS your stuff to yourself.

Are you seriously going through New Jersey to get to Washington State?
 

DickWanner

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Sell your primers and powders to us and buy new in Washington. That way you have no headaches, you won't be looking over you shoulder the whole trip, and you'll have more room in the trunk for other stuff. The NRA would probably be the best source of info on the laws transporting primers and powders across the country.

If you have an address ahead of time you can pay the hazmat fee and UPS your stuff to yourself.

Are you seriously going through New Jersey to get to Washington State?
Swampy definitely brings up two very good points.

#1- Sell everything that is expendable, especially ammo and components. Guns like used Glocks can be sold for higher prices here than can be bought new in other states. With a little research I'm sure you can find out who the local gun stores are. Call them and ask about he availability of reloading components, ammo, and certain firearms. Don't sell stuff unless you know you can reaquire it or that you won't miss it. I know that my grandfather in Vermont has a hard time getting reloading components.

#2- If it's rare or hard to find, ship it to yourself. This includes your firearms. Remember, you can ship a gun without an FFL if you're shipping it to yourself. Might be easier to avoid the hassel and you might need the extra space.
 

Bill Nance

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Are you seriously going through New Jersey to get to Washington State?
There are two main routes to get there. The northern route takes us through Wisconsin and Illinois, including Chicago. re-routing to avoid those would take us a full day out of our way. The more southern route takes us through NJ and then west as I recall. This is a possibility as we wanted to stay with some folks in the midwest for a couple of days. And going through Chicago with ammo or guns makes me nervous even if it's legal. I trust the worst CoP in the state of Mass more than I trust Daley's finest to follow the law.
 

Bill Nance

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After some thought I think I'm just going to ramp up the press and use up every primer and bit of powder I can and sell/give the rest to someone here. I can flat-ship the completed ammo to one of my nieces.
 
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Jose

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I moved a shitpotful of ammo, components, and firearms in my truck when I moved from Kansas to Ohio. Drove through Missouri, Illinois, and Indiana to get here.

Never worried for a second.
 

Bill Nance

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Since my livelihood and rights may depend on not violating some bizarre local law that's not quite covered explicitly under something like FOPA, I'll just do what I'm planning and not take any chances.

Sure, the chances of me getting in trouble are pretty remote. But the potential bad things that could happen are sufficient for me to just not do it. YMMV. If this was a move across a day's distance I wouldn't sweat it. When it's a 4-5 day trip, the odds of trouble go up rather a lot.
 

Scrivener

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Sure, the chances of me getting in trouble are pretty remote. But the potential bad things that could happen are sufficient for me to just not do it. YMMV. If this was a move across a day's distance I wouldn't sweat it. When it's a 4-5 day trip, the odds of trouble go up rather a lot.
A good and prudent plan.
 
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And going through Chicago with ammo or guns makes me nervous even if it's legal. I trust the worst CoP in the state of Mass more than I trust Daley's finest to follow the law.
I'd avoid the city of Chicago if at all possible, but it's pretty easy and actually may save you time. Exit the Indiana Toll Road at Portage (follow I-80 and most of the traffic) to I-294 (the tri-state tollway) and loop around Chicago. Technically, you'll cross a narrow strip of Chicago when you cross I-90 -- the median of I-90 is actually in Chicago so the city can "grab" O'Hare airport (has to be contiguous). Taking I-90 through Chicago is pretty painful if there's much traffic, anyway.
 
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Jose

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I can see how living in Mass can drive people into paranoia.......

This is absolutely no big deal.
 
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I was gonna say something along the lines of just watch the speed, but after reading and careful thought, I think you are making the right choice.

Also, for peace of mind check all running lights at every stop. Especially on the trailer if you have one. Though you already know that
 
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Here: http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/safety/storage_handling.aspx#recommendations

10-3 SMOKELESS PROPELLANTS. 10-3.1 Quantities of smokeless propellants not exceeding 25 LB (11.3kg), in shipping containers approved by the U.S. Department of Transportation, may be transported in a private vehicle.
10-3.2 Quantities of smokeless propellants exceeding 25 lb (11.3kg) but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), transported in a private vehicle, shall be transported in a portable magazine having wood walls of at least 1-inc. (25.4-mm) nominal thickness.
10-3.3 Transportation of more than 50 lb (22.7 kg) of smokeless propellants in a private vehicle is prohibited.
10-3.4 Commercial shipments of smokeless propellants in quantities not exceeding 100 lb. (45.4kg) are classified for transportation purposes as flammable solids when packaged according to U.S. Department of Transportation Hazardous Materials Regulations. (Title 49, Code of Federal Regulations, Park 173.197a), and shall be transported accordingly.
10-3.5 Commercial shipments of smokeless propellants exceeding 100 lb (45.4 kg) or not packaged in accordance with the regulations cited in 10-3.4 shall be transported according to the U. S. Department of Transportation regulations for Class B propellant explosives.
10-3.6 Smokeless propellants shall be stored in shipping containers specified by U. S. Department of Transportation Hazardous Materials Regulations.
Just don't build a box out of 1xX boards, because they're only 3/4" thick.

I agree with your assement though. Use up all of the consumables you can, ship the assembled ammunition. I'm sure a lot of us here would love to see a Karma for what's left, but you could also through it up on the for sale section. Best of luck with the move and I agree - don't take chances.

Also, print out a copy of the federal laws governing the transportation of firearms across state lines and a copy of the state laws from MA and WA just in case. Best to have them there to provide to an officer rather than trusting the officer to know the federal laws.
 
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GSG

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Anyone know what the laws are or where to find them?
I don't know anything about transporting reloading components, but I do know a bit about FOPA. Here's my advice:

-Know the laws, and follow them. Keep copies of the laws with your lawfully secured guns as insurance against felony conviction.

-Don't mention the guns if you get stopped.

-When you're in Connecticut near the NY border, stop and gas up, as this should get you all the way through New York, New Jersey and Maryland to the free states. Before getting on the road again do a walk around the vehicle(s) and make sure that all the lights and gadgets work like they should, and that you don't have a bumper hanging off of your car or anything else that will draw attention to you. Then do a visual inspection of the interior of your vehicle from the outside to see if there's anything weapon related in plain sight that could be seen during a traffic stop. (Repeat this process before going through other anti-gun states).

-Coach your passengers in the fine art of not blurting stupid sh** to cops if you get pulled over (like "Did you tell him about your guns!?!"), especially if you have children.

-Buy, beg or borrow a GPS in addition to printed directions. Either one can fail you, especially if there's an accident, construction or whatever other unknown confusion.

-Check the laws of the states that you'll be passing through to map out where you have reciprocity and carry a gun while passing through there. It's a PITA to load up in free states and disarm in anti-gun states, but it's worth it.

-Pay attention when you're driving, pull over to sleep if you must, but trust your instincts.

-No really, carry a freaking gun or two where you legally can. When I moved from MA to FL, I was asleep in the backseat and the person driving got us lost somehow, so we had to turn around. I woke up groggy, and 1-2 minutes later (while I was still rubbing the sleep out of my eyes) a team of people on foot and in a vehicle tried to carjack us; they had a good setup but we saw the cues and foiled their plan. We were a car packed to the brim, occupied by people with out of state plates and the wrong color skin in a bad neighborhood, a prime target for crime. If you're pulling a trailer you'll be even more noticable and less able to drive like Frank Bullitt.

If you want a good source, go read NRA's summaries of state gun laws to get an overview of each state's laws.
Good tip, but keep in mind, even the NRA doesn't get all the gun laws right on their website. It'll give you a good idea, but don't trust your RKBA to what they say.
 

DickWanner

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-No really, carry a freaking gun or two where you legally can. When I moved from MA to FL, I was asleep in the backseat and the person driving got us lost somehow, so we had to turn around. I woke up groggy, and 1-2 minutes later (while I was still rubbing the sleep out of my eyes) a team of people on foot and in a vehicle tried to carjack us; they had a good setup but we saw the cues and foiled their plan. We were a car packed to the brim, occupied by people with out of state plates and the wrong color skin in a bad neighborhood, a prime target for crime. If you're pulling a trailer you'll be even more noticable and less able to drive like Frank Bullitt.
You made me think of this story before I even read it in your post [laugh]
 
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There are two main routes to get there. The northern route takes us through Wisconsin and Illinois, including Chicago. re-routing to avoid those would take us a full day out of our way. The more southern route takes us through NJ and then west as I recall. This is a possibility as we wanted to stay with some folks in the midwest for a couple of days. And going through Chicago with ammo or guns makes me nervous even if it's legal. I trust the worst CoP in the state of Mass more than I trust Daley's finest to follow the law.
Don't go through NJ. Use this route: I-90 to I-84, I-84 to I-81 South, I-81 to I-80. This will take you through NY and into PA, instead of running the gauntlet of NJ, NYC.

I have made the trip into PA several times by both routes, and the travel time averages about the same depending on weather and times of day, considering the slowdowns you get as you get closer to NYC on either I-95, or I-287 over the Tappan Zee.

Finally, while Chicago is definitely anti-gun, they do follow FOPA. I have flown into and out of Midway with handguns and have had no problems.
 
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If you have any gun-related stickers or decals on the vehicle ("I'm the NRA", "Terrorist Hunting Permit", "Insured by Smith & Wesson", etc.), remove them with some rubbing alcohol and a razor blade. Those type of stickers put LEOs on the alert that there may be firearms in the vehicle and you will likely be questioned about this. When travelling cross-country through anti-gun jurisdictions, that is one hassle that you don't want or need.
 
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I can see how living in Mass can drive people into paranoia.......

This is absolutely no big deal.
I am going to agree with Jose. It's really not that big of a deal, but if you are that worried, why not just ship everything?
 

Bill Nance

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Guys, the questions were for reloading components. AFAIK they are not covered under FOPA and Scrivener confirmed this. The problem is solved. I'm unconcerned about anything covered under FOPA. And no, I'm not taking off decals off my car or avoiding any states or worrying about getting pulled over. If I'm on solid legal ground there is no issue. Since the components are sort of a gray area I'll just use 'em up before we leave.
 
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Jose

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Reloading components are NOT in a gray area.

That's crazy-f***ing-ma**h*** thinking where you need a license to even have a freaking dummy round.

Even Illinois is not as batshit crazy as Massachusetts.

(430 ILCS 65/2) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑2)
Sec. 2. Firearm Owner's Identification Card required; exceptions.
(a) (1) No person may acquire or possess any firearm,

stun gun, or taser within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.
(2) No person may acquire or possess firearm

ammunition within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.
(b) The provisions of this Section regarding the possession of firearms, firearm ammunition, stun guns, and tasers do not apply to:
(1) United States Marshals, while engaged in the

operation of their official duties;
(2) Members of the Armed Forces of the United States

or the National Guard, while engaged in the operation of their official duties;
(3) Federal officials required to carry firearms,

while engaged in the operation of their official duties;
(4) Members of bona fide veterans organizations

which receive firearms directly from the armed forces of the United States, while using the firearms for ceremonial purposes with blank ammunition;
(5) Nonresident hunters during hunting season, with

valid nonresident hunting licenses and while in an area where hunting is permitted; however, at all other times and in all other places these persons must have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case;
(6) Those hunters exempt from obtaining a hunting

license who are required to submit their Firearm Owner's Identification Card when hunting on Department of Natural Resources owned or managed sites;
(7) Nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range

recognized by the Department of State Police; however, these persons must at all other times and in all other places have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case;
(8) Nonresidents while at a firearm showing or

display recognized by the Department of State Police; however, at all other times and in all other places these persons must have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case;
(9) Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and
enclosed in a case
;
On top of that, Illinois FOIDs apply only to the posession of AMMUNITION as defined by Illinois law. Reloading components are not considered ammunition in IL. How do I know? read their code.
 

Scrivener

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Reloading components are NOT in a gray area.

That's crazy-f***ing-ma**h*** thinking where you need a license to even have a freaking dummy round.
For those of us who actually grasped the OP's question, what Illinois or any other state thinks is not the Alpha and Omega of the issue.

COMPONENTS are what are likely to go "bang" and there are FEDERAL regulations about transporting same; at least commercially. Note that one will often see warnings about propane, explosives, etc. on approaches to bridges and tunnels.
 
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Jose

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Yeah Scrivener, most people have more than 25 pounds of smokeless powder and tens of thousands of primers lying around that they need to move with.

Good grief......
 

Scrivener

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Yeah Scrivener, most people have more than 25 pounds of smokeless powder and tens of thousands of primers lying around that they need to move with.

Good grief......
In your pathetic little world, probably not.

Ten thousand primers is a mere two cases. Like most reloaders, I buy primers by the case and have more than 10,000 in SR alone.
 
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