Traffic stop; LEO asks you, 'do you have any guns in the car'

[Bill Nance]

"Why are you even asking me? Is there a reason for this stop beyond your stated reason for a minor traffic infraction? Please call your supervisor to the scene. I'll be happy to wait. Otherwise write your traffic citation and I'll be on my way. Have a nice day."

All that needs be said.

 

[drgrant]

A bit off topic, but as a fan of Twin Peaks the arrangement of posts #13 and #14 was beautiful.

Lord, yes.

Worthless Trivia: I had Audrey as my avatar for at least a good 6+ months at one point

-Mike

 

[Red Lagoon 6]

As to those who advocated lying or evasisve, just remember, lying to a local or state officer is not a per se crime. In general, not a good idea because it won't get you much consideration from the officer. In contrast, lying to ochmude is a federal 5 year felony. There's no direct Massachusetts equivalent to 18 USC 1001.

The closest thing in MA is the current witness intimidation statute - G.L. c. 268, 13B - which makes it a crime to mislead a police officer, prosecutor, etc. Lying to a police officer is considered misleading.

 

[Kicker96FS]

You could always try this line.

"These aren't the droids you are looking for"

 

[jamison55]

Truth. Honestly, when people tell me that yes, they are armed, it tends to completely defuse the stop. If someone freely says "Yes, I am armed", they're probably not someone I need to worry about.

I was taught that when stopped, have your license and LTC in your hands when the LEO comes to the window, and your hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel. So I did just that when stopped by a member of my local PD after I committed a "rolling stop" at a stop sign a couple of years ago. She looked puzzled for a second, then asked why I gave her my permit. I replied that I was on my way back from the range, and had firearms in my car. She asked where they were, and I replied, "in the trunk, and one on my person". I was pleasant and courteous the entire time. She issued me a verbal warning, smiled, and said "thanks for telling me abut the guns". As with any encounter with an LEO, I think being courteous, honest, and respectful gets you far more respect in response than being at all secretive or combative. It doesn't have to be "us against them" IMHO.

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My lovely wife hasn't learned this lesson. When she gets stopped it's a guaranteed ticket, based on her attitude alone .

 

[In God We Trust]

I was taught that when stopped, have your license and LTC in your hands when the LEO comes to the window, and your hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel. So I did just that when stopped by a member of my local PD after I committed a "rolling stop" at a stop sign a couple of years ago. She looked puzzled for a second, then asked why I gave her my permit. I replied that I was on my way back from the range, and had firearms in my car. She asked where they were, and I replied, "in the trunk, and one on my person". I was pleasant and courteous the entire time. She issued me a verbal warning, smiled, and said "thanks for telling me abut the guns". As with any encounter with an LEO, I think being courteous, honest, and respectful gets you far more respect in response than being at all secretive or combative. It doesn't have to be "us against them" IMHO.

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My lovely wife hasn't learned this lesson. When she gets stopped it's a guaranteed ticket, based on her attitude alone .

+1

We can argue all day about cops being dicks and nazis, violating the constitution, being anti gun, etc. The bottom line is that most of them in my experience are very much like you and I where they just want to finish up their shifts and go home to watch the Sox with a cold beer. Being rude, argumentative and a general pain in the ass is going to get you a ticket. Worse than that, piss off the cops in a town you live in or drive through frequently and you will be remembered.

People are @holes in general with few exceptions. Being a cop is one of the few jobs in this country where you don't have to politely take people's BS (usually) and can get the last laugh by writing a citation or locking them up. Save the attitude for the teenage girl at McDs if you feel like being a dick to someone.

 

[TZCHRIS]

 

[Kisspik002]

Sorry, thanks for clearing that up. In a nut shell my answer was in regards to if a cop asked then I would tell him i was armed.

 

[Blitz1]

I guess the whole gist of it is don't tell until you're asked. In MA anyways.

 

[mcb]

Every time I stop a vehicle I ask if there are guns or drugs inside. I haven't drawn down on anyone or called for backup even once so far.

Why?

ETA
Has this produced fruit so to speak?

ETA2
Disregard, I see you already answered. With so few LEOs in the discussions around here I got a little excited.

 

[Feral]

I got pulled over about a two years ago on RT146 ( for not signaling while changing lanes twice, once to pass on the left lane and once to go back to the right lane.) He approached my vehicle from the passenger side, it was dark and I could not tell if he was MSP or Town LEO.

I was on my way home after purchasing a stainless steel AR barrel from a fellow NES'r.

I was promptly informed for the reason i was stopped. He was correct.

LEO saw the barrel on the passenger floor and asked me what it was. I told him.
...asked me if there was firearm in the vehicle. I said no.
...asked me if I had a Firearms Permit. Voluntarily Produced my LTC-Class A.
...asked me why i needed a high-capacity permit. I said it was SOP in my town.
LEO never asked for my Driver's License...and sent me off with a verbal warning.

your mileage may vary... but i believe my honest demeanor got me out of a ticket, and I get to keep my spotless driving record.

 

[OfficerObie59]

The closest thing in MA is the current witness intimidation statute - G.L. c. 268, 13B - which makes it a crime to mislead a police officer, prosecutor, etc. Lying to a police officer is considered misleading.

Yes, but under 268/13B you also have to have the intent to impede a criminal investigation. Unless the cop is investigating a criminal violation, rather than simply asking the question for an officer safety purpose, there's no violation.

However, do keep in mind courts have repeatedly stated there's no protected right to lie to the authorities. What you do have a right to do is say nothing.

 

[OfficerObie59]

You could always try this line.

"These aren't the droids you are looking for"

I'd say "have a nice day" and send them on their way, mainly because I'd loose any command posture after laughing.

 

[namedpipes]

I was cleaning my truck the other day and found a cannon I'd forgotten to bring back into the house.

Not kidding

 

[wmass]

I thought when they ran plates now a days a LTC shows up as a flag. The cop knows if yur licensed or not before he asks the question.

 

[dcmdon]

I got pulled over about a two years ago on RT146 ( for not signaling while changing lanes twice, once to pass on the left lane and once to go back to the right lane.) ....


...asked me why i needed a high-capacity permit. I said it was SOP in my town.
.

This would have irritated me and probably resulted in one of the following answers:

1) why do you need one?
2) none of your business, am I free to go?

Re lying.
Its a sad state of affairs when a LEO can lawfully lie to you, but you have to tell the truth. Just another creeping encroachment of government into our liberties.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I thought when they ran plates now a days a LTC shows up as a flag. The cop knows if yur licensed or not before he asks the question.

Not true in MA or NH. Some states this is true.

 

[bfm]

I thought when they ran plates now a days a LTC shows up as a flag. The cop knows if yur licensed or not before he asks the question.

Oddly , both sets of records are in the same building in Chelsea, but on seperate servers that are not tied together. Not that it would be hard to write code to query both of them.




When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, "Well, what do you need?"
Steven Wright
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/steven_wright_5.html#IpF7iKdvckqEtJG4.99

 

[fsusoldier]

I was taught that when stopped, have your license and LTC in your hands when the LEO comes to the window, and your hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel. So I did just that when stopped by a member of my local PD after I committed a "rolling stop" at a stop sign a couple of years ago. She looked puzzled for a second, then asked why I gave her my permit. I replied that I was on my way back from the range, and had firearms in my car. She asked where they were, and I replied, "in the trunk, and one on my person". I was pleasant and courteous the entire time. She issued me a verbal warning, smiled, and said "thanks for telling me abut the guns". As with any encounter with an LEO, I think being courteous, honest, and respectful gets you far more respect in response than being at all secretive or combative. It doesn't have to be "us against them" IMHO.

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My lovely wife hasn't learned this lesson. When she gets stopped it's a guaranteed ticket, based on her attitude alone .

Couldn't agree more, courtesy and respect go a long way in a LEO's (my) decision in whether you leave the scene with "written documentation" of the stop or a mere verbal reminder to watch your speed, stop completely or whatever the reason for the stop. I can't say that I have actually encountered anyone with a LTC or legally possessed firearm (maybe I have and they hadn't informed me) but a licensed holder is the least of my worries in the City of Homes.

 

[Feral]

Yes... it was a question out of context, maybe it was to test my state of mind (technically the LEO just saw me driving "recklessly" without disregard to other motorist)...my goal was to remain civil in the encounter and hopefully leave the situation without a ticket(s) and insurance surcharges for the next several years, that lawfully belonged to me..

Ask yourself.....What would you do if a non-LEO asked you the same question in a different situation..would you have a civil answer/discussion or immediately show him you are irritated and perpetuate the myth of the tempermental, shoot at the hip, gun nut.

This would have irritated me and probably resulted in one of the following answers:

1) why do you need one?
2) none of your business, am I free to go?

Re lying.
Its a sad state of affairs when a LEO can lawfully lie to you, but you have to tell the truth. Just another creeping encroachment of government into our liberties.

 

[In God We Trust]

Not true in MA or NH. Some states this is true.

I don't know if it is state wide or only certain towns, but I do know of one town where the LTC info shows up when your plate is run. You can also see what guns are owned.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I don't know if it is state wide or only certain towns, but I do know of one town where the LTC info shows up when your plate is run. You can also see what guns are owned.

If you are stopped in the town that issued your permit, everything is likely to come up if they have their "in-house" system setup correctly. They log everything these days and my town keeps permanent records if you reported a dog loose/barking/someone whacked your mailbox/you reported an accident you saw.

I was responding to the state-wide system, not any local system as there are likely 351 different answers (in MA) for that question.

 

[dcmdon]

Feral - given my general dislike for conflict, I'd probably have said it in a tone that was disarming rather than confrontational.

On the side of the road, you do everything you can to respect the officer, as long as he is extending the same courtesy to you.

If he's not offering you the same courtesy that he expects, then you simply comply as required by law to get back on the road.

I've only had trouble once with a LEO when stopped while driving. In that case he wanted to argue with me, I ended it by simply telling him that I was done discussing it. I think 99% of cops "get" the protocol as well as most of us do. Be nice, no extra talk. hands where he can see them.

Nothing is ever to be gained by arguing with an officer on the side of the road. Be quiet, take notes, and run a voice recorder if you have one.

I have systematically taken an officer apart in court - that's the time to argue. Not on the side of the road.
In court, YOU get to ask the questions. The officer does not.
In court, the officer is your equal. On the side of the road, you are at a disadvantage.
In court, you get to be the aggressor, on the side of the road, you are the prey.

Don

One other thing. I once had an officer start his interaction with me by thanking me for pulling far off of the shoulder of the road, so his butt wasn't hanging out in traffic. No surprise, he let me off with a warning. Even if you know you are busted, help the guy out and get way off the road. If there is armco on the shoulder and its clear 500 ft up, put your blinker on so he knows you intend to pull over then get off the road once the shoulder opens up.

I don't know the statistics, but I'd bet that more cops get killed by getting hit by a car while on the side of the road than die due to the deliberate actions of bad guys.

 

[DNTTexan]

One other thing. I once had an officer start his interaction with me by thanking me for pulling far off of the shoulder of the road, so his butt wasn't hanging out in traffic. No surprise, he let me off with a warning. Even if you know you are busted, help the guy out and get way off the road. If there is armco on the shoulder and its clear 500 ft up, put your blinker on so he knows you intend to pull over then get off the road once the shoulder opens up.

I don't know the statistics, but I'd bet that more cops get killed by getting hit by a car while on the side of the road than die due to the deliberate actions of bad guys.

I think your suggestion is an excellent one. Nobody wants to be a statistic.

Statistically, however, for 2010 it was 11 officers killed by being struck (accidentally) by vehicles, 56 "feloniously killed".

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...identally-killed/officers-accidentally-killed and related pages have all sorts of stats and details....

 

[chunky__monky]

as someone who used to get stopped at least once a month for driving a lowered car, i used to get asked if i had any drugs or weapons on me every time. this was before my LTC days and i have since changed paths in the car world. but i always was just honest and said whatever knife or multi-tool i had on me. its like everyone said, as long as your respectful and honest, usually they are too. i was stopped once while carrying and being on the paranoid side myself and not liking sudden movements, before i even moved my hands off the wheel i said "just out of respect for you and your safety i want to let you know i am carrying an unloaded gun on my right hip" he asked if i had a permit and i said yes and he asked to see it as well. he then moved to watch me through the windshield and i just moved slow and deliberately as i took out my wallet. he looked calm as could be. i got off with a warning but i think we were both calmer after that

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Why yes officer, I have two IWB.

 

[n1bsbri]

Sure officer, I have nothing to hide. I'll answer all your questions!

 

[jamison55]

I think what helps me out a bit with LEOs is that I began driving in North Central FL in the late 80s. I lived out in the sticks and the county was policed by the sherrif's dept (i.e. "good old boys"). I learned very quickly that anything other than "yes sir, no sir, as you say sir", would get you in a world of hurt. LEOs up here don't expect the same kind of respect, and kind of get a kick out of it .

 

[dcmdon]

I was raised to answer exactly the same way.
Of course I was also raised to say sir to men older than me.

Now that I'm 44, I find I instinctively say sir to officers who are noticeably older than I am, but have no impulse to give the same courtesy to a 26 yr old cop.

I'm not saying its right, but its just how my mind works.
Unfortunately, as time marches on, the proportion of officers older than me keeps shrinking. Ha.

 

[namedpipes]

I was raised to answer exactly the same way.
Of course I was also raised to say sir to men older than me.

Yeah. That turns on you real quick. I still remember when supermarket baggers started calling me "Sir". I was still in college for cripes sake.