The public schools suck thread.

[whatluck]

The KGB penetrated our school systems during the cold war for exactly this purpose.

 

[Boston_Shooter]

So you have concluded that private schooling is unaffordable AND that nothing can be done to improve the situation from a statistically irrelevant sample of one.

Good job. You must be a public HS grad.

As a Public HS grad...i take offense to this!

 

[Madball13]

No, I don't like that idea. Why? Because a well educated society is a better society. You're welcome to go live outside of society if you'd like, but as long as you expect to be a member of society, you're expected to help (to a reasonable extent) with keeping it going. Do you really think your life would be better if half of the country couldn't afford school for their kids? Do you not care about the society in which you raise your kids? I do. We can do a quick comparison of countries where kids are guaranteed an education and countries where they're not. I would choose to live in one of the countries where they are every single time, and that's not a coincidence.

So how about this: we vote on it and do what the majority thinks is best. Oh wait, that's already what we do.

If you can't feed, clothe and educate a child, don't have one.

 

[Boston_Shooter]

Like a bumper sticker I recently saw said "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em!"

 

[ochmude]

If you can't feed, clothe and educate a child, don't have one.

Quiet you! There's no place for personal responsibility in this discussion.

 

[zeppelinfromled]

If you can't feed, clothe and educate a child, don't have one.

Absolutely agreed. But punishing a kid for their parents being idiots is not something that I would like to be involved in.

 

[Madball13]

Quiet you! There's no place for personal responsibility in this discussion.

I got a bad habit of that, too bad it wasn't as infectious as a rampant case of Ebola.

 

[Admin]

Absolutely agreed. But punishing a kid for their parents being idiots is not something that I would like to be involved in.

Having money being taken from my kids because some parents are idiots is not something I would like to be involved in.

 

[zeppelinfromled]

So you have concluded that private schooling is unaffordable AND that nothing can be done to improve the situation from a statistically irrelevant sample of one.

Good job. You must be a public HS grad.

...because only a public HS grad would answer the question he is asked?

OK, then, what is the range of private school tuition in your town and within reasonable driving distance?

 

[Madball13]

Absolutely agreed. But punishing a kid for their parents being idiots is not something that I would like to be involved in.

Sacrifices have to be made and the world needs ditch diggers too.

 

[economist]

But punishing a kid for their parents being idiots is not something that I would like to be involved in.

Having money being taken from my kids because some parents are idiots is not something I would like to be involved in.

That's it. Anyone who can't understand that is hopeless. We are all free to give if we choose to help others. Coerced giving is simply theft.

 

[Boston_Shooter]

Sacrifices have to be made and the world needs ditch diggers too.

Education is overrated. My father came to this country with a 5th grade education and is retired and set for life (with his own money) at age 54. My grandfather came to this country with $50, a 2nd grade education and 20 years of farm experience and provided more than enough for his kids and grandkids. My uncle with a 5th grade education is a successful business owner, and will be retiring at age 55. And like Madball said...if they don't have the smarts to do it, than there are jobs for them too.

 

[pdm]

That's it. Anyone who can't understand that is hopeless. We are all free to give if we choose to help others. Coerced giving is simply theft.

Q: Why is robbery a crime?
A: The government doesn't like competition.

 

[zeppelinfromled]

Education is overrated. My father came to this country with a 5th grade education and is retired and set for life (with his own money) at age 54. My grandfather came to this country with $50, a 2nd grade education and 20 years of farm experience and provided more than enough for his kids and grandkids. My uncle with a 5th grade education is a successful business owner, and will be retiring at age 55. And like Madball said...if they don't have the smarts to do it, than there are jobs for them too.

To be clear, I think this is a side note, and I don't intend for this to be terribly relevant to the public schools discussion, but:

In a changing world, and in a country where lots of labor jobs are being shipped overseas and where illegal immigrants are doing labor for a fraction of what they would have to pay a citizen, an education is becoming more and more important. There are certainly still jobs that don't require much education, but it would be a challenge to find a job (or set of jobs) that could provide for a family without requiring a high school diploma or GED.

 

[Madball13]

Education is overrated. My father came to this country with a 5th grade education and is retired and set for life (with his own money) at age 54. My grandfather came to this country with $50, a 2nd grade education and 20 years of farm experience and provided more than enough for his kids and grandkids. My uncle with a 5th grade education is a successful business owner, and will be retiring at age 55. And like Madball said...if they don't have the smarts to do it, than there are jobs for them too.

Very true, but from self righteous teachers point of view if a kid is not force fed a government education then they are doomed to dig ditches.

 

[Admin]

To be clear, I think this is a side note, and I don't intend for this to be terribly relevant to the public schools discussion, but:

In a changing world, and in a country where lots of labor jobs are being shipped overseas and where illegal immigrants are doing labor for a fraction of what they would have to pay a citizen, an education is becoming more and more important. There are certainly still jobs that don't require much education, but it would be a challenge to find a job (or set of jobs) that could provide for a family without requiring a high school diploma or GED.

It's not the .gov's job to make people succeed.

 

[zeppelinfromled]

It's not the .gov's job to make people succeed.

I take no issue with that. It was just a comment on how I think education is becoming more important.

 

[Boghog1]

Actually I think an education is becoming less important, we have transitioned from a country that makes things to a country that makes nothing. We need to create in order to survive, eventually the pendulum is going to swing the other way because we can not all be chiefs.

The problem is we are pushing everyone to have a secondary education when not everyone should be pushed into that. We need mechanics, plumbers, electricians etc... It shouldn't take a 4 year degree to learn these things. We make things overly complex just because we can which in turn makes additional education requirements to keep infrastructure running when it shouldn't we are also loosing knowledge all the time, simple things like making soap used to be known by everyone, now it is very few. what about butter and simple everyday items like cloth? If the unforeseen happens where technology fails on a large scale/global basis those that live in mud huts will be the ones that know the most valuable information.

 

[Madball13]

Actually I think an education is becoming less important, we have transitioned from a country that makes things to a country that makes nothing. We need to create in order to survive, eventually the pendulum is going to swing the other way because we can not all be chiefs.

The problem is we are pushing everyone to have a secondary education when not everyone should be pushed into that. We need mechanics, plumbers, electricians etc... It shouldn't take a 4 year degree to learn these things. We make things overly complex just because we can which in turn makes additional education requirements to keep infrastructure running when it shouldn't we are also loosing knowledge all the time, simple things like making soap used to be known by everyone, now it is very few. what about butter and simple everyday items like cloth? If the unforeseen happens where technology fails on a large scale/global basis those that live in mud huts will be the ones that know the most valuable information.

Right on, turn the grid off and we will all be snot dripping Neanderthals

 

[Boston_Shooter]

This thread is the thread that keeps on giving...I see it taking another turn right about........NOW.

 

[June4th]

Others usually know me as fairly conservative but I do have a soft spot for public education. Accessible (inexpensive), quality education is critical for upward mobility. When I grew up in China, every public school was free, but you'd have to excel in tests to get into better/best schools. This ensured brightest and hardest working kids (who maybe poor) rise to the top.

Part of the problem of the public school I see, is that by defining the goal as 'No child left behind', achieved the result of 'no child gets ahead'. The highschool drop-outs won't harm America's competitiveness, but if our top 5% can't compete against other's top 5%, we'd be in trouble.

 

[Mass-diver]

Actually I think an education is becoming less important, we have transitioned from a country that makes things to a country that makes nothing. We need to create in order to survive, eventually the pendulum is going to swing the other way because we can not all be chiefs.
.

End of the world scenarios aside, the correlation between education and income is very strong these days. Clearly some BS liberal arts degree is useless (and a waste of money), but degrees in engineering, bio-tech, and medicine are very desirable these days.

Learning some leftie's version of American history is a waste, but a focus on hardcore mathematics and science is a receipt for success. Trades are great for people that aren't into school, but lets not elevate them something that they aren't.

Even if the end of days comes soon, people with critical thinking skills, strong imaginations, and ability to think outside the box are going to survive. Personally, when SHTF, I'll be tracking down my MD friends way before I call my electrician.

 

[Flyer007]

To be clear, I think this is a side note, and I don't intend for this to be terribly relevant to the public schools discussion, but:

In a changing world, and in a country where lots of labor jobs are being shipped overseas and where illegal immigrants are doing labor for a fraction of what they would have to pay a citizen, an education is becoming more and more important. There are certainly still jobs that don't require much education, but it would be a challenge to find a job (or set of jobs) that could provide for a family without requiring a high school diploma or GED.

Very true, but from self righteous teachers point of view if a kid is not force fed a government education then they are doomed to dig ditches.

Or in other words.......Since our country continues trying to "socialize out" the class system through more and more handouts and feeling of entitlements, we have lost the low cost manufacturing workforce.

Where did this class go? Some educated up; to fill the little growth in jobs within the engineering/design/finance/etc. sides of the biz. Others found manual labor jobs (where not filled with low cost illegals) while others probably live off us through the gvt tit.

We really need to "educate" the masses that a class system is needed in country our size. We need to bring back low cost manufacturing. We need to get the illegal workforce out and replaced with the old American lower class.

When someone hit's the good ol' Staples big red button......"that was easy" we will see this happen.

 

[Boghog1]

Others usually know me as fairly conservative but I do have a soft spot for public education. Accessible (inexpensive), quality education is critical for upward mobility. When I grew up in China, every public school was free, but you'd have to excel in tests to get into better/best schools. This ensured brightest and hardest working kids (who maybe poor) raise to the top.

Part of the problem of the public school I see, is that by defining the goal as 'No child left behind', achieved the result of 'no child gets ahead'. The highschool drop-outs (I made that up) won't harm America's competitiveness, but if our top 5% can't compete against other's top 5%, we'd be in trouble.

This

 

[Flyer007]

Actually I think an education is becoming less important, we have transitioned from a country that makes things to a country that makes nothing. We need to create in order to survive, eventually the pendulum is going to swing the other way because we can not all be chiefs.

The problem is we are pushing everyone to have a secondary education when not everyone should be pushed into that. We need mechanics, plumbers, electricians etc... It shouldn't take a 4 year degree to learn these things. We make things overly complex just because we can which in turn makes additional education requirements to keep infrastructure running when it shouldn't we are also loosing knowledge all the time, simple things like making soap used to be known by everyone, now it is very few. what about butter and simple everyday items like cloth? If the unforeseen happens where technology fails on a large scale/global basis those that live in mud huts will be the ones that know the most valuable information.

Dam....you beat me too it.....thanks

 

[Madball13]

This thread is the thread that keeps on giving...I see it taking another turn right about........NOW.

your welcome

 

[HooVooLoo]

Grant, that was one of the most disturbing video clips I have ever witnessed, ever. I almost, but not quite, started getting chills down my spine out of fear for those kids.

Just speechless.

It seems so familiar, so recent, so..........

Nope, I will not be the invocator of Godwin's Law, but you all know which other vids like that you have seen, from circa' 1935-1940.

BARF

 

[Jose]

...because only a public HS grad would answer the question he is asked?

I asked you about where you live now. You responded with an anecdote about schools where you used to live.

And there is NFW that I am going to believe that you, living right in the middle of f-ing Boston cannot find more than one example of private school tuition.

 

[cekim]

Others usually know me as fairly conservative but I do have a soft spot for public education. Accessible (inexpensive), quality education is critical for upward mobility. When I grew up in China, every public school was free, but you'd have to excel in tests to get into better/best schools. This ensured brightest and hardest working kids (who maybe poor) rise to the top.

Part of the problem of the public school I see, is that by defining the goal as 'No child left behind', achieved the result of 'no child gets ahead'. The highschool drop-outs won't harm America's competitiveness, but if our top 5% can't compete against other's top 5%, we'd be in trouble.

I too have a soft spot for this idea - primarily because its in all of our best interests that anyone who votes have a basic working knowledge of how the world works and history...

The trouble is that we have not been able to separate out the agenda of the government from the schools it creates. Government, not surprisingly, sells itself through the schools. It pollutes history, economics an even literature courses with its agenda. Sometimes in subtle ways, sometimes in far less subtle ways...

Some of this can be minimize by local control of schools, but in the end, if government is provides the schools, then the schools are going to be the government's propaganda ministry. It takes diligent parents (an endangered species), to provide an alternative message to moderate the political slant kids get in school.

So, in the end, despite my soft-spot, I am losing faith in the idea that public schooling can work. Certainly not in its current form... Certainly not with federal involvement.

 

[lupis42]

So, in the end, despite my soft-spot, I am losing faith in the idea that public schooling can work. Certainly not in its current form... Certainly not with federal involvement.

If municipalities want to offer public schooling, while I don't think that's the ideal solution, I'm not going to go screaming "communism" at them. If they don't, that should be fine too. Either way, the federal government, and even the state governments, have no business in education.

In general, if something can be done at the state level, it shouldn't be done at the federal level. If it can be done at the local level, it shouldn't be done at the state level. If it can be left up to each person, it shouldn't be done at the local level.