The Problem With Smart Guns

[Acujeff]

Smartguns, which just entered the market, are firearms equipped with small embedded computers that are supposed to enhance safety by preventing anyone other than authorized parties from firing the weapons, and, in some cases, by ensuring that the guns only fire when aimed at inanimate targets.

I do not doubt that supporters of smartgun technology wish to reduce gun accidents and violence. But is smartgun technology really ready for prime time? Or do these guns introduce vulnerabilities that could create new, serious safety issues for gun owners and non-owners alike?

Full article at:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/josephsteinberg/2014/05/04/smartguns/

 

[Golddiggie]

Smart guns = Stupid idea...

 

[Burgundy41]

I think it's a useful technology that could be utilized by say, cops to prevent perps from grabbing their firearm and use it on them. It should be an option for anyone that wants it, but shouldn't be forced on anyone. The tech will take a while to develop too, it won't be really ready in the next 5 years I'm sure.

 

[saltydude]

Been around for awhile just never really main streamed. The idea will fizzle out. There's now way it will win enough support.

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I think it's a useful technology that could be utilized by say, cops to prevent perps from grabbing their firearm and use it on them. It should be an option for anyone that wants it, but shouldn't be forced on anyone. The tech will take a while to develop too, it won't be really ready in the next 5 years I'm sure.

That's funny. You think LE is going to accept it?

 

[Burgundy41]

Been around for awhile just never really main streamed. The idea will fizzle out. There's now way it will win enough support.

That's funny. You think LE is going to accept it?

No idea, but that doesn't matter to what I said. I'm simply stating a possible use.

 

[binary]

I think it's a useful technology that could be utilized by say, cops to prevent perps from grabbing their firearm and use it on them. It should be an option for anyone that wants it, but shouldn't be forced on anyone. The tech will take a while to develop too, it won't be really ready in the next 5 years I'm sure.

I'm not sure about that first bit, but otherwise you've got it right. If there's a market of people who want guns with 'smart' features, the more power to them. But at the moment the tech isn't ready by most people's judgement and it's absurd that there are laws like those in NJ that will be triggered by sales of this type of gun.

 

[exo]

by ensuring that the guns only fire when aimed at inanimate targets.

Pray tell us how that will work.

View attachment 102924

 

[Come and take]

Here is a smart idea! Owner has control. Others may use without physical harm.

One cool looking gun.

 

[Tater]

Mandate the firearms for ALL Law enforcement offiers and All federal Private Security Guards and the Presidential Detail of the secret service and then tell the common citizens that they are mandatory.... until our president and law enforcement professionals are ready to risk their lives on unproven technologies don't ask us to do this....

 

[rocket500]

Smart guns will mean .gov requires a kill switch that they control.

 

[Golddiggie]

View attachment 102934Here is a smart idea! Owner has control. Others may use without physical harm.

One cool looking gun.

People can still get hurt from it, if they're stupid enough... All the safety features in the world won't prevent injury if the wetware between the person's ears fails.

 

[gearjunky13]

All in all, what ever is built into a gun can be taken out, simple as that, no criminal will sweat a smart gun, probably wont need to do much too it to make it work,

And as for a home owners, i have seen people not change batteries in there beeping smoke alarm, i dont see batteries in there firearms doing much better

 

[gearjunky13]

Mandate the firearms for ALL Law enforcement offiers and All federal Private Security Guards and the Presidential Detail of the secret service and then tell the common citizens that they are mandatory.... until our president and law enforcement professionals are ready to risk their lives on unproven technologies don't ask us to do this....

Hell dont ask us to do it period, we dont need the smart tech, guns themselves are safe, and have been for a long time, people leving them in places kids can get them, stupid people not following the basic safty rules, and so on are what make any gun smart or not unsafe

People make them go off, just because there is a transmitter saying your the one that can shoot it dose no prevent a negligent discharge, nor dose it stop stupid people leaving there gun out where a kid could get it with there transmitter device right next to it,

And remember kids are smart, they figure stuff out fast and probably know they need the watch to make the gun work, and if the gun is accessible to them, i highly doubt the transmitter would be hard to get,

Basically tragic accidents with a smart gun could just the same happen with a standard gun, and stupid people thinking that the smart gun dose not have to be stored or handled like a normal gun because its smart, is where i think this gun will be most dangerous to people,

 

[Eman .357]

Smart guns will mean .gov requires a kill switch that they control.

Wouldn't be surprised

 

[drgrant]

No idea, but that doesn't matter to what I said. I'm simply stating a possible use.

Any LEO with a brain wouldn't want another failure point in a firearm, though. Yes, LEOs have been killed by their own guns but the number of those deaths is a drop in the bucket compared to other causes of death in LE.

For example... according to this FBI data, only ONE LEO was killed with his own firearm in 2012. That's statistically almost lost in the noise.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...feloniously-killed/felonious_topic_page_-2012

Maybe other years were worse, but on average, if I was in LE, it's not that I wouldn't train for that possibility, but I'm more likely to get hit by a car or shot/stabbed by some BG with his own weapon. By orders of magnitude. Hell in some of the years I looked at the risk was higher getting shot by a "good guy" than getting shot by your own gun.

-Mike

 

[Blitz1]

The main problem with them are the laws that will mandate them.

 

[Reptile]

Best article I ever read on the subject.

I sooner rely on a gun made by me in a machine shop than rely on that smart gun junk.

The hackers will have a great time exploiting this mess...

One problem- it is such a fail that they will never get the chance in the first place.

 

[Blitz1]

Make the Secret Service use them first. We'll see how they work for them.

 

[Zappa]

All in all, what ever is built into a gun can be taken out, simple as that, no criminal will sweat a smart gun, probably wont need to do much too it to make it work,

This^

Since the gun would still need all the mechanisms to function and fire, it likely wouldn't take long for the criminal community to figure out how to remove/bypass the electro-nannies to make it function as any normal gun.

Any LEO with a brain wouldn't want another failure point in a firearm, though. Yes, LEOs have been killed by their own guns but the number of those deaths is a drop in the bucket compared to other causes of death in LE.

Anyone remember the "smart holster" ???
It was designed for LE use and incorporated a fingerprint reader locking mechanism, which prevented unauthorized users from removing the gun from the holster.
Sounds like a great idea, but can anyone guess why it never caught on ???
Could it be that cops never trusted this technology ???

 

[DispositionMatrix]

^Put another way, brace for mandatory firmware upgrades wherein you would be required to bring your state-approved, government-controlled firearm in for updates after the process is forced upon the manufacturer. Then imagine the field day state legislatures would have forcing their _recommendations for improvements_ on the manufacturer and end users. Also frequent upgrade requirements could be used to further discourage firearms ownership, with lawmakers making the frequency of updates unmanageably burdensome.

 

[EnglishBob]

The only time I want a power source in a firearm is if it's a functional replica of Han Solo's blaster.

 

[exo]

Any LEO with a brain wouldn't want another failure point in a firearm, though. Yes, LEOs have been killed by their own guns but the number of those deaths is a drop in the bucket compared to other causes of death in LE.

For example... according to this FBI data, only ONE LEO was killed with his own firearm in 2012. That's statistically almost lost in the noise.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...feloniously-killed/felonious_topic_page_-2012

Maybe other years were worse, but on average, if I was in LE, it's not that I wouldn't train for that possibility, but I'm more likely to get hit by a car or shot/stabbed by some BG with his own weapon. By orders of magnitude. Hell in some of the years I looked at the risk was higher getting shot by a "good guy" than getting shot by your own gun.

-Mike

And isn't that something best resolved (perhaps already done? I don't know LEO equipment) with a good retention holster, rather than more electro-wizardry?

 

[Zappa]

And isn't that something best resolved (perhaps already done? I don't know LEO equipment) with a good retention holster, rather than more electro-wizardry?

In the case of the marathon bombers, after they ambushed and shot the MIT cop, they tried to take his duty gun, but couldn't figure out how to remove it from the holster. Had both the scumbags been armed, the outcome may have been much worse for the other cops later involved in the Watertown shootout.

 

[Quiet]

In the case of the marathon bombers, after they ambushed and shot the MIT cop, they tried to take his duty gun, but couldn't figure out how to remove it from the holster. Had both the scumbags been armed, the outcome may have been much worse for the other cops later involved in the Watertown shootout.

That's entirely possible and you may be right but I doubt it. I think they were too far apart. Unless the cop was carrying a night vision super blaster or something. Nobody hit anything except one cop shooting another cop by accident (as the SUV drove into their ranks creating crossfire, IIRC)

 

[Artifact]

I think they are a great idea. You can program them to only fire at certain people, race of choice, dogs of choice, you can program and also add a speaker that warns the perp in a multitude of languages. Synch it with the iPhone music playlist....etc. Really, endless uses. Bring it on.

 

[Quiet]

I think they are a great idea. You can program them to only fire at certain people, race of choice, dogs of choice, you can program and also add a speaker that warns the perp in a multitude of languages. Synch it with the iPhone music playlist....etc. Really, endless uses. Bring it on.

Not a bad idea! Smartphonegun. Of course due to MA regulations it cannot look like a phone, it has to look like a gun. This will really freak people out in Starbucks when you answer your ringing gun and put it to your ear.

 

[LoginName]

I think it's a useful technology that could be utilized by say, cops to prevent perps from grabbing their firearm and use it on them. It should be an option for anyone that wants it, but shouldn't be forced on anyone. The tech will take a while to develop too, it won't be really ready in the next 5 years I'm sure.

Mandate the firearms for ALL Law enforcement offiers and All federal Private Security Guards and the Presidential Detail of the secret service and then tell the common citizens that they are mandatory.... until our president and law enforcement professionals are ready to risk their lives on unproven technologies don't ask us to do this....

Any LEO with a brain wouldn't want another failure point in a firearm, though. Yes, LEOs have been killed by their own guns but the number of those deaths is a drop in the bucket compared to other causes of death in LE.

For example... according to this FBI data, only ONE LEO was killed with his own firearm in 2012. That's statistically almost lost in the noise.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...feloniously-killed/felonious_topic_page_-2012

Maybe other years were worse, but on average, if I was in LE, it's not that I wouldn't train for that possibility, but I'm more likely to get hit by a car or shot/stabbed by some BG with his own weapon. By orders of magnitude. Hell in some of the years I looked at the risk was higher getting shot by a "good guy" than getting shot by your own gun.

-Mike

The irony in all this is that "smart gun" technology was originally conceived with LEO use in mind.

Civilian sales/use were a secondary thought.

Besides NJ, I believe (I'd have to look it up to confirm it), that most... if not all the state legislatures that

have proposed "smart gun" legislation (and throw in micro stamping for good measure), have LEO exemptions as part of

the bills language.

"Smart gun" developers and vendors realize by now that marketing/pushing sales is pretty much a lost cause and not

worth pursuing.

 

[gearjunky13]

This^

Since the gun would still need all the mechanisms to function and fire, it likely wouldn't take long for the criminal community to figure out how to remove/bypass the electro-nannies to make it function as any normal gun.

I would also add that this younger generation of criminals are more tech savvy then the people making the laws, I'm sure a teenager will learn how to hack the gun before it even hits store shelves

Probably have an app for it on his phone

 

[exo]

I would also add that this younger generation of criminals are more tech savvy then the people making the laws, I'm sure a teenager will learn how to hack the gun before it even hits store shelves

I wonder if these smart guns could be hacked by software to be full auto? Is there a mechanical linkage between the trigger and the hammer/sear or is it a "shoot by wire" sorta thing?

 

[Kevin_NH]

I wonder if these smart guns could be hacked by software to be full auto? Is there a mechanical linkage between the trigger and the hammer/sear or is it a "shoot by wire" sorta thing?

BATFE is wary of semi-automatics with electronic trigger/hammer for exactly this reason. Most e-trigger guns are single-shot, e.g. bolt-action EtronX, avoiding the problem entirely.

The $1800 Armatix iP1 system claims to offer a “electronic magazine disconnect", but no description of the actual mechanism. Most likely mechanism is the 'unlock' mode retracts a pin which otherwise prevents the striker from moving. Simple enough to permanently bypass.