Texas Goes Permitless on Guns, and Police Face an Armed Public

[Reptile]

HOUSTON — Tony Earls hung his head before a row of television cameras, staring down, his life upended. Days before, Mr. Earls had pulled out his handgun and opened fire, hoping to strike a man who had just robbed him and his wife at an A.T.M. in Houston.

Instead, he struck Arlene Alvarez, a 9-year-old girl seated in a passing pickup, killing her.

“Is Mr. Earls licensed to carry?” a reporter asked during the February news conference, in which his lawyer spoke for him.

He didn’t need one, the lawyer replied. “Everything about that situation, we believe and contend, was justified under Texas law.” A grand jury later agreed, declining to indict Mr. Earls for any crime.

The shooting was part of what many sheriffs, police leaders and district attorneys in urban areas of Texas say has been an increase in people carrying weapons and in spur-of-the-moment gunfire in the year since the state began allowing most adults 21 or over to carry a handgun without a license.

At the same time, mainly in rural counties, other sheriffs said they had seen little change, and proponents of gun rights said more people lawfully carrying guns could be part of why shootings have declined in some parts of the state.

Far from an outlier, Texas, with its new law, joined what has been an expanding effort to remove nearly all restrictions on carrying handguns. When Alabama’s “permitless carry” law goes into effect in January, half of the states in the nation, from Maine to Arizona, will not require a license to carry a handgun.

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[robjax]

Sad for the girl.

Psyched more states are removing restrictions/infringements on firearm ownership and possession.

 

[Bob P]

The ‘urban police’ spokespeople are full of shit. Shootings haven’t gone up.

 

[FPrice]

Would having a license have made the outcome any less tragic?

 

[SpaceCritter]

Texas Goes Permitless on Guns, and Police Face an Armed Public​

 

[JonathonEmergency]

Why isn’t the robber on the hook for the homicide?

 

[CATI]

I am up in NH today with permitless carry. I am literally shaking right now

 

[pastera]

Why isn’t the robber on the hook for the homicide?

As long as the shoot was good as self defense the collateral damage, while tragic, is on the person(s) commuting the assault.
I believe Andrew Branca (Law of Self Defense) covered this event but I don't remember the exact details.

 

[Broc]

The shooting was part of what many sheriffs, police leaders and district attorneys in urban areas of Texas say has been an increase in people carrying weapons and in spur-of-the-moment gunfire in the year since the state began allowing most adults 21 or over to carry a handgun without a license.

The bullsh*t is strong with this one.

 

[StevieP]

Would having a license have made the outcome any less tragic?

No but if he had a license he must be background checked, and "a good guy."

This allows him to use the "good guy" defense in court.

No license must mean he's just a gang banger thug.

That's how it works, right?

 

[Asaltweapon]

The trigger man should still own the bullet. No?

 

[gerrycaruso]

I think permit less carry is a victory for all the pro-gun folks but if your bullets hit unintended people or things, there should be some accountability whether you're a civilian or a cop.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Only if you're average Joe 12 pack. If that bullet was fired from a police officer's gun the cop wouldn't be on the hook. It would just be another case of qualified immunity saving his ass.

Ya but we ain’t turned this into a cop bashing thread. Yet.

If I killed an innocent 9 yo with my bullet as an unintended target I’d likely eat one.

 

[paul73]

If I kill an innocent bystander by accident trying to kill someone who's shooting at me am I going to jail?

depends upon a state and the position of the AG in that state. no law is absolute, it only reflects what politicians want it to be - as they brainwash the public and public then forms a jury.

in MA any attempt to defend yourself is treated as a sacrilege. like recent sample of the woman who got raped on a trail - she did a right thing by what local society expects one to do - got pressed against a tree, so she closed her eyes to avoid seeing the offender and submitted to the assault. just 2 days back in Waltham, i think.

 

[Dench]

Pretty sure shooting someone by accident is illegal.

 

[paul73]

Pretty sure shooting someone by accident is illegal.

any accident is illegal, sure. everything should be made illegal, it would make life way simpler - would remove all the doubt.

 

[Dench]

any accident is illegal, sure. everything should be made illegal, it would make life way simpler - would remove all the doubt.

We rightfully attack police who can't make the shot and hose some person not involved. And ill do the same for this guy. If you can't take the shot without hitting someone else dont take it.

 

[Dench]

Have you ever had to defend you or your family out in public with a firearm? I haven't and I hope I never have to but I'll tell you this. If someone is pointing a gun at me or my family and I'm armed I'm shooting at them and I don't care what's behind them. I think way too many people on this forum and in the firearms community in general think they're commandos who are instantly going to act cool under pressure, they aren't. Especially when predators have the drop on you. People have watched too many movies. It's not like the movies things happen fast, decisions have to made in a second. If they can cut slack to police officer's who f*** up then citizens should be given the same slack.

You have the right to defend yourself. You don't have the right to harm people who don't need to be harmed.

 

[greencobra]

the takeaway is texas is trying to get ahead of the curve for when it turns blue. coming soon!

 

[Drix]

Why isn’t the robber on the hook for the homicide?

And that's the rub.

Even the police shoot bystanders.

 

[TrashcanDan]

I'm pretty sure the public in Texas has been heavily armed for many, many years.
And I'm sure police have been facing them this entire time.

Article and article headline have aids.

 

[Dadstoys]

The trigger man should still own the bullet. No?

At least morally .
Think about where those bullets are going before you drop the hammer.

 

[MisterHappy]

I'll be and outlier - I think that the shooter was in the wrong, from the get-go ...the article is thin on what came before the shooting.

Apparently, the shooter had been robbed. If the robbery was over, then IMO the guy had no reason to shoot, as robbery is not a capitol offense, as far as I know.

If the immediate threat to life was passed, there was no reason to throw lead.

 

[paul73]

We rightfully attack police who can't make the shot and hose some person not involved. And ill do the same for this guy. If you can't take the shot without hitting someone else dont take it.

i do agree with you, overall.

 

[Woodsloafer]

More details below, I am surprised he got off, seems negligent to fire at a vehicle he "thought" the suspect was going to get into.

"An investigation determined Earls and his wife were targeted by a robber near a Chase Bank ATM in the Gulfgate area. Earls then got out and shot at the fleeing suspect and a pickup truck that he thought the person was getting into, police said.
But the pickup was not the suspect's getaway car. Instead, Arlene and her family were inside."

Arlene Alvarez killed: Harris Co. grand jury declines to indict robbery victim who shot 9-year-old

With a grand jury declining to charge the man whom police say fired the deadly shot, the search intensifies for the robber who set this chain of events in motion.

abc13.com

 

[Admin]

HOUSTON — Tony Earls hung his head before a row of television cameras, staring down, his life upended. Days before, Mr. Earls had pulled out his handgun and opened fire, hoping to strike a man who had just robbed him and his wife at an A.T.M. in Houston.

Instead, he struck Arlene Alvarez, a 9-year-old girl seated in a passing pickup, killing her.

“Is Mr. Earls licensed to carry?” a reporter asked during the February news conference, in which his lawyer spoke for him.

He didn’t need one, the lawyer replied. “Everything about that situation, we believe and contend, was justified under Texas law.” A grand jury later agreed, declining to indict Mr. Earls for any crime.

The shooting was part of what many sheriffs, police leaders and district attorneys in urban areas of Texas say has been an increase in people carrying weapons and in spur-of-the-moment gunfire in the year since the state began allowing most adults 21 or over to carry a handgun without a license.

At the same time, mainly in rural counties, other sheriffs said they had seen little change, and proponents of gun rights said more people lawfully carrying guns could be part of why shootings have declined in some parts of the state.

Far from an outlier, Texas, with its new law, joined what has been an expanding effort to remove nearly all restrictions on carrying handguns. When Alabama’s “permitless carry” law goes into effect in January, half of the states in the nation, from Maine to Arizona, will not require a license to carry a handgun.

Continues...

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JFC, NOW DO NYPD SHOOTING INNOCENTS....

 

[VetteGirlMA]

I don't know about anyone else, but I just cackle like Hillary Clinton after 3 bottles of Chardonnay over here whenever cops turn into gigantic snowflakes and yet there is a police protecting and serving thread dozens of pages deep of them snapping arms like twigs, breaking necks, whipping around children like rag dolls because "they" weren't armed and now they can't whip people around any longer.

 

[Dench]

You are correct but I'll worry about that after I stop the threat.

Just keep in mind that if you're slinging lead in the general direction you're potentially the bad guy to people. And those people might deal with you. And they'd be in the right.

 

[G4Y4HK]

"An armed society is a polite society" amirite boys? How come that statement doesn't apply to Chiraq where everybody carries Glocks with machine gun switches and happy sticks?

 

[safetyfirst2125]

More details below, I am surprised he got off, seems negligent to fire at a vehicle he "thought" the suspect was going to get into.

"An investigation determined Earls and his wife were targeted by a robber near a Chase Bank ATM in the Gulfgate area. Earls then got out and shot at the fleeing suspect and a pickup truck that he thought the person was getting into, police said.
But the pickup was not the suspect's getaway car. Instead, Arlene and her family were inside."

Arlene Alvarez killed: Harris Co. grand jury declines to indict robbery victim who shot 9-year-old

With a grand jury declining to charge the man whom police say fired the deadly shot, the search intensifies for the robber who set this chain of events in motion.

abc13.com

Glad for CC. Just two points:

1) Carrying comes with responsibility. Don’t shoot what you can’t see and be sure you aren’t going to blow away a 9-year old kid who had nothing to do with whatever happened.

2) “How many kids have to die before we surrender our arms and freedom”? A: All of them. 130,000,000 innocent men women and children were murdered by their own governments in cold blood in the 20th century alone. They were first disarmed. The 1st rule of gun safety is: NEVER give up your guns to the government.