Tell me about .22 Bullseye

[EDD]

I shot Bullseye in the WCPL for a little over a year. I found that confidence in equipment was a big factor in shooting good scores. In all my shooting, both practice and matches, I had zero failures/malfunctions with my Browning Buckmark. The only mods to the gun were a simple sear spring tweak and a Millett Red Dot. This combination earned me two trophies. Bullseye is very much a mental game.

 

[Keystone]

What's the difference between the standard Ultra Dot and the Match Dot? Just the variability of the dot and the price, or is there a difference in quality?

 

[cstockwell]

Thanks for the info and feedback, guys. I'm leaning toward the Matchdot, but now I have to decide if my shooting "ability" is worth the investment.

If you ever want to try the matchdot one out let me know. I can also let you try the difference between a ruger standard, MKII, High Standard, GSP Expert and Pardini if you want to get a feel for them.

I just read a VERY important response from Dick and EDD in that your confidence in your equipment is more key than just about anything. Lots of people shoot well with different guns and if you have the mental attitude you can and will shoot well with any particular setup then that is most of the battle. I was rattled with my high standard because of mag issues and getting alibis and couldn't break 270. 1/4 through my first full season I bought a GSP expert from a fellow shooter that he bought brand new but just didn't like (shoots OSP). That first match I tested his gun out before buying I shot a 272 and bought the gun. The rest of the season and all last season I was always confident of no alibis so I could concentrate on shooting and ended seasons with averages in 3 different leagues between 273 and 275 with a number of scores in the 280s. I have a high of 289 but can't yet break 290. This was only my second full season in Bullseye and I contribute the half way decent averages to finally landing a gun that I could feel confident in and then further feel confident in my ability to shoot it well. I just bought the Pardini 2 weeks ago and am shooting it in the summer league to try to get the same confidence. It is all a mental game with some skill thrown in. And if you read what George wrote in previous posts about the exercise it is a HUGE help. I always shoot better after reloading ammo or doing some physical labor in the days prior to matches. Many of us also keep a 5 lb weight near the chair so we can hold it up in shooting position as long as possible while watching tv and having a beer to help strengthen the arm. Works pretty well.

 

[dcmdon]

There is one thing that I have found to be consistent across all leagues, clubs, geographic areas and disciplines is that if a novice shows up with no ego, an open mind and a desire to learn, people will fall all over themselves trying to help him.

I've been the beneficiary of that tradition many times in my life and I try to pay it back whenever there is a new shooter on the line.

I've been given assistance, equipment, firearms and ammo to use. None of which I asked for. In most cases I arrived with my own equipment, but had made novice errors in its selection.

At my first high power match, some guy literally said something like this to me: "here you go kid, try out my Compass Lake AR, leave that M1A Scout Sniper in its case, and oh by the way. Here's 50 rounds of my Sierra Match king in Lake City brass reloads. Just make sure you don't drop the gun and you find all the brass"

"How does this sling work?" (old guy rolls eyes)

We're all novices at some point in our lives.

Don

p.s. I still can't get the sling right. Now I just use a GI web sling.

 

[wjsmall97]

not wanting to steal this thread, but with all the rounds shot through your pistols I was wondering what most people are using to clean and lube your guns.
Bill

 

[EDD]

There is one thing that I have found to be consistent across all leagues, clubs, geographic areas and disciplines is that if a novice shows up with no ego, an open mind and a desire to learn, people will fall all over themselves trying to help him.

I've been the beneficiary of that tradition many times in my life and I try to pay it back whenever there is a new shooter on the line.

I've been given assistance, equipment, firearms and ammo to use. None of which I asked for. In most cases I arrived with my own equipment, but had made novice errors in its selection.

At my first high power match, some guy literally said something like this to me: "here you go kid, try out my Compass Lake AR, leave that M1A Scout Sniper in its case, and oh by the way. Here's 50 rounds of my Sierra Match king in Lake City brass reloads. Just make sure you don't drop the gun and you find all the brass"

"How does this sling work?" (old guy rolls eyes)

We're all novices at some point in our lives.

Don

p.s. I still can't get the sling right. Now I just use a GI web sling.

This is so true. I have been given lots of help. One guy I shoot with put up 500 rounds of CCI Standard for a raffle each week of practice. All you had to do was show up. He also gave me a Dillon Square Deal press. The proper attitude goes a long way.

 

[EDD]

not wanting to steal this thread, but with all the rounds shot through your pistols I was wondering what most people are using to clean and lube your guns.
Bill

I use Hoppes or Breakfree with a boresnake for the barrel and a nylon chamber brush as needed. I also use a small amount of grease on the slide.

 

[bsimardjr]

One suggestion on the mental aspect that has worked for me. Shoot your target's but don't look at them to see how you shot until you are done. About three years ago I stopped looking, I usually scope the first couple of slow fire shots to make sure they are where I called them. After that I don't look even when I reel them back and change targets. This doesn't work when you are shooting a 900/1800/2700 where you are scoring on the line and have to look at the targets. This was my way of dealing with the mental part and my scores have gone up. I shoot a Marvel conversion with a dedicated Caspian lower and a 1" Ultradot.

Bob

 

[George D]

A few things to think about if you decide to start Bullseye.
Practice before your first match. Make sure you are at least on the paper. Everyone is patient with newcomers but if you are crossfiring onto someone else's target, you aren't going to make any new friends. If you are shooting high and hitting the target hanger, that is very distracting to the other shooters and frowned upon in general.
Take your time in slow fire. Ten minutes is a long time to fire 10 rounds. Resist the urge to shoot quickly. Don't feel that just because you picked up the gun from the bench you have to fire. If the shot isn't there, put the gun down, take a few deep breaths and continue. Sometimes I may pick up my gun two or three times before I take a shot. Try to get a feel for the cadence of the timed and rapid sections. The 20 seconds you have in timed fire is actually a pretty long time, so don't go crazy trying to squeeze off 5 rounds as fast as you can. Rapid fire is fairly quick, that is when you want to be able to shoot every second and a half.
The simplest advice I ever got was this: Don't take the shot if its not a 10. That sounds simplistic, but once you concentrate and think about it, a lot of times you'll find yourself shooting "hoping" it hits the 10 ring. Don't squeeze until you know its a 10.

 

[Keystone]

I don't fire too much, one handed. I need to work on that. If my quick look on the internet is right, the black is just under 5", and the target itself is 14", right? I'm "minute-of-paper-plate" at 25 yards, in practice, two handed. I'm a little rusty...and shooting one handed, but at least the indoor distance is closer. Yeah, maybe I should hit up the range once or twice to get my sealegs back.

I've also been playing with 5lb hand weights, trying to get some semblance of upper body strength, including trying to hold it at a shooting position for as long as I can. I need more work on that, too..yikes!

Thanks for the advice, folks, lots of good stuff here.

 

[jar]

I don't fire too much, one handed. I need to work on that. If my quick look on the internet is right, the black is just under 5", and the target itself is 14", right? I'm "minute-of-paper-plate" at 25 yards, in practice, two handed. I'm a little rusty...and shooting one handed, but at least the indoor distance is closer. Yeah, maybe I should hit up the range once or twice to get my sealegs back.

I've also been playing with 5lb hand weights, trying to get some semblance of upper body strength, including trying to hold it at a shooting position for as long as I can. I need more work on that, too..yikes!

Thanks for the advice, folks, lots of good stuff here.

The dimensions you state are for 25yd targets. The leagues shoot indoors at 50 feet. The black is 3 inches, and the outer ring is 7.3 for slow and 8.3 for timed/rapid. Take a look at the table here: http://www.indecorous.com/bullseye/rings.html. Don't worry about the comparison of the different targets he gets in to, just look at the first two tables that show the target dimensions. The black on a slow target includes the 7, timed/rapid stops at the 9.

 

[Dick]

If my quick look on the internet is right, the black is just under 5", and the target itself is 14", right?

Indoor bullseye is shot at 50' on the NRA B-2 (slow fire) and B-3 (timed, rapid fire) targets. In each case, the black is just about 3" in diameter (I seem to recall 3.09") and the paper is about 12" high and 10.5 inches across. The black on the slow fire target includes the 7 through 10 rings, on the B-3 it's just the 9 and 10 rings.

You'll have some shots off the paper at first, especially in the sustained fire stages, and maybe even in slow fire - everyone does at first. Unless you're shooting in a very, very crowded range you've got to really pull one to put it on somebody else's target accidentally. However, one of the guys from my team once shot an entire stage of 10 shots on my target, thinking it was his - that's a different problem. Hitting the target hanger, however, is all too easy for beginners and it really is distracting.

Like Bob, I too stopped scoping my shots during a match. It only led to two things: If I started off well on a stage, I got excited and did worse, and if I started off poorly I got pissed off and did worse.

 

[EDD]

Indoor bullseye is shot at 50' on the NRA B-2 (slow fire) and B-3 (timed, rapid fire) targets. In each case, the black is just about 3" in diameter (I seem to recall 3.09") and the paper is about 12" high and 10.5 inches across. The black on the slow fire target includes the 7 through 10 rings, on the B-3 it's just the 9 and 10 rings.

You'll have some shots off the paper at first, especially in the sustained fire stages, and maybe even in slow fire - everyone does at first. Unless you're shooting in a very, very crowded range you've got to really pull one to put it on somebody else's target accidentally. However, one of the guys from my team once shot an entire stage of 10 shots on my target, thinking it was his - that's a different problem. Hitting the target hanger, however, is all too easy for beginners and it really is distracting.

Like Bob, I too stopped scoping my shots during a match. It only led to two things: If I started off well on a stage, I got excited and did worse, and if I started off poorly I got pissed off and did worse.

I need to stop looking. I once shot 5 tens only to totally screw up the rest. I was too excited.

 

[Dick]

I need to stop looking. I once shot 5 tens only to totally screw up the rest. I was too excited.

I think the theory is you're supposed to watch how your shots are falling on a particular string and then correct for whatever little bias happens to have crept into your routine at that particular moment. I'm not that good. I'll never be that good.

 

[jar]

Scoping your shots after each shot in slow is a great learning tool though. My shot calling has improved by leaps and bounds by doing it. That said, I'm looking at my best slow target (handing on my office wall), and it's a 96 with a shot *just* clipping the 8 ring. That was the last shot, and I called it a 7 right and slightly low as soon as it broke. The excitement got to me.

 

[center442]

Make the investment and your shooting ability will, with time, rise to the occasion. It's frustrating to not be shooting well and wonder whether it's you or your equipment. With the Matchdot, you don't have to wonder about your sight, at least.

In my case, poor eyesight is the biggest problem. I can exercise the arm to build up the muscles, but I have to compensate for the the deterioration in my vision.

If you ever want to try the matchdot one out let me know. I can also let you try the difference between a ruger standard, MKII, High Standard, GSP Expert and Pardini if you want to get a feel for them.

I just read a VERY important response from Dick and EDD in that your confidence in your equipment is more key than just about anything. Lots of people shoot well with different guns and if you have the mental attitude you can and will shoot well with any particular setup then that is most of the battle. I was rattled with my high standard because of mag issues and getting alibis and couldn't break 270. 1/4 through my first full season I bought a GSP expert from a fellow shooter that he bought brand new but just didn't like (shoots OSP). That first match I tested his gun out before buying I shot a 272 and bought the gun. The rest of the season and all last season I was always confident of no alibis so I could concentrate on shooting and ended seasons with averages in 3 different leagues between 273 and 275 with a number of scores in the 280s. I have a high of 289 but can't yet break 290. This was only my second full season in Bullseye and I contribute the half way decent averages to finally landing a gun that I could feel confident in and then further feel confident in my ability to shoot it well. I just bought the Pardini 2 weeks ago and am shooting it in the summer league to try to get the same confidence. It is all a mental game with some skill thrown in. And if you read what George wrote in previous posts about the exercise it is a HUGE help. I always shoot better after reloading ammo or doing some physical labor in the days prior to matches. Many of us also keep a 5 lb weight near the chair so we can hold it up in shooting position as long as possible while watching tv and having a beer to help strengthen the arm. Works pretty well.

Thanks for the offer, cstockwell. Right now, my range time is limited, but I'm working on getting out more often especially with the warmer weather coming. Bullseye was how I learned to shoot back in the mid 1970's. I still have my High Standard Military Citation from those days, but I just can't do with it today what I did with it years ago. I have a cheap red dot on the Ruger now, but I find the dot to be too large, so the Matchdot caught my interest.

An old-timer back then told me how he used to strengthen his arm for bullseye. He had a glass quart milk bottle that he filled with sand and covered the top with electrical tape to seal it. He would grab it around the neck and hold it out at arm's length while he was watching TV. He said the weight built up the larger arm muscles, and having to hold it tightly to prevent it from slipping through his hand strengthened his hand muscles. If I go that route, I may have to start with a beer bottle and work my way up!

I'm currently looking for a local club to join since I'm starting to feel the itch to get back into some organized competition, hopefully without embarrassing myself too much.

 

[bsimardjr]

Scoping your shots after each shot in slow is a great learning tool though. My shot calling has improved by leaps and bounds by doing it.

It was just the opposite for me. My slow fire scores went up as soon as I stopped being distracted buy the score. I am confident in my gun and red dot so if I scope the first 1 or 2 shots and they go where I called them then it doesn't matter if they were 10's or 7's I know what I have to do. May not work for everybody but it helps me.

Bob

 

[Dick]

In my case, poor eyesight is the biggest problem. I can exercise the arm to build up the muscles, but I have to compensate for the the deterioration in my vision.

Yeah, I hear you. I became eligible for Social Security last year and although I still don't need to wear glasses for distance vision for most purposes, I've got slight corrective lenses for shooting. We've got so many old semi-blind farts in the league that I suspect gallery bullseye would be history as a shooting sport without the introduction of dot sights. Although I've still (just barely) got an NRA Expert classification, my average has slipped a full 10 points from what it was when I was 40 and my eyes were perfect. I've been experimenting with various crutches, the most promising of which lately has been the Eye Pal stick-on peep that helps to sharpen everything up. It's a continuing battle, and I know it's going to get worse.

 

[jefftk]

Alright well I just bought a MKIII .
The price of the MKIII is just way better for my budget at the moment compared to the other options.
Also, I want a .22 for plinking just as much; so if I ever decide I need something more fancy then I will still have the MKIII for plinking.

I just looked at those ultradot match-dot sights... I'm not sure I want to put down another $200 on a red dot right now. Are there any other decent cheaper options? Is it reasonable to start out with just iron sights?

 

[Keystone]

Well, I was close What's an inch or two, right?

At least hitting a target hanger will be fairly obvious, so you can correct your aim.

 

[cstockwell]

While we are on the subject of Bullseye...will anyone else here be at the 2011 Mass Gallery Pistol League Championship on May 21st in Taunton. Would be nice to put a face to some of the names here. It is a 900 match and I didn't qualify my first year as I shot only 1/3 a season but was able to shoot it last year and will again this year. It really is a great time. Lots of great people from other areas of the state that we usually don't get to see during normal season matches.

 

[cstockwell]

I'm currently looking for a local club to join since I'm starting to feel the itch to get back into some organized competition, hopefully without embarrassing myself too much.

The closest to you would have been Fall River but they are now the Taunton Black team when the FR indoor range was shut down a few years ago. New Bedford on Bolton Street shoots in the Twin County and South Shore leagues. We at Acushnet shoot in the Cape Cod, Twin County and also shoot for the New Bedford Team in South Shore League. I don't really know of any other clubs close to you that shoot out here. Satucket is in Bridgewater. Taunton has 3 teams with Red, Blue and Black and have a nice range. But you really want to shoot for Acushnet though don't you . last 3 years 1st place Cape league and 2nd in twin county this year. Good no frills inexpensive club to belong to.

 

[jar]

It was just the opposite for me. My slow fire scores went up as soon as I stopped being distracted buy the score. I am confident in my gun and red dot so if I scope the first 1 or 2 shots and they go where I called them then it doesn't matter if they were 10's or 7's I know what I have to do. May not work for everybody but it helps me.

It depends on skill level. I'm still relatively new, 09-10 was my first league season. If you can't call your shots well, the feedback of the scope helps you improve that. Once you can, I agree that the nervousness after starting with a couple 10s can be a downfall.

Alright well I just bought a MKIII .
I just looked at those ultradot match-dot sights... I'm not sure I want to put down another $200 on a red dot right now. Are there any other decent cheaper options? Is it reasonable to start out with just iron sights?

The regular 1" ultradot runs about $140. If you get in to competition shooting at all, buy once cry once will become your mantra.

 

[center442]

The closest to you would have been Fall River but they are now the Taunton Black team when the FR indoor range was shut down a few years ago. New Bedford on Bolton Street shoots in the Twin County and South Shore leagues. We at Acushnet shoot in the Cape Cod, Twin County and also shoot for the New Bedford Team in South Shore League. I don't really know of any other clubs close to you that shoot out here. Satucket is in Bridgewater. Taunton has 3 teams with Red, Blue and Black and have a nice range. But you really want to shoot for Acushnet though don't you . last 3 years 1st place Cape league and 2nd in twin county this year. Good no frills inexpensive club to belong to.

I've heard good things about Acushnet. I stopped by R&G of New Bedford and did a quick look around, but I don't know if they do any bullseye shooting. Ideally, I'd like to find a range close to my home that offered a decent mix of indoor and outdoor ranges for handguns. I use Woodcock for rifles and handguns now. While I like outdoor ranges, it might be nice to be able to get away from the wife and do a little indoor shooting when the weather sucks.

I guess that bullseye would be boring to some folks. It's certainly not exciting as a spectator sport. When I was involved in it decades ago it was all iron sights. Being able to use optics is what is getting me interested again.

 

[Emoto]

FWIW, some clubs do not require you to be a club member in order to shoot on their pistol team. I know Hanson allows non-members onto their team.

 

[Moderator]

Don't buy whatever crappy red dot a store will try to sell you. Ultradot is the way to go.

This!

Ultradot seems to be the standard in our league (Ocean State Pistol League).

I just started bullseye this year and I love it. Like all shooting sports you will find that with the exceptions of a club here or there, the competitors are very friendly and always willing to help out a noob. I am very lucky to be a member for the Cumberland Beagle Club. We have a great group of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, but also have some of the top shooters in the area. Our team just finished the season in first place being undefeated (with absolutely no help from me) We have a few national champions and which one was a coach for the Junior Olympics as well as MIT. These guys have taught me so much in just one season, I am currently knocking on the door of a 260 (this is not great, but pretty good for a tyro).

When I was looking for a gun a found a decent deal on a MKIII Target with mags and optic, but because I live in RI, I had to wait 7 days to pick it up. This for once worked out for me, as when I walked in to pick up the Ruger and fairly new S&W 41 w/ultradot had just come in 5 minutes prior with 6 mags, target case, ammo, eyes ears, tools, recorder, clock.... pretty much everything one could need to get started, all for under 1k. So needles to say, I compete with a 41.

Let me know if your ever going to be in the RI area on a Monday night as our clubs Sumer 600 matches have just started up and this is a great way to practice for regular bullseye. You can meet much of the people I spoke about and get some great beginners advice.

 

[center442]

Alright well I just bought a MKIII .
The price of the MKIII is just way better for my budget at the moment compared to the other options.
Also, I want a .22 for plinking just as much; so if I ever decide I need something more fancy then I will still have the MKIII for plinking.

I just looked at those ultradot match-dot sights... I'm not sure I want to put down another $200 on a red dot right now. Are there any other decent cheaper options? Is it reasonable to start out with just iron sights?

Jeff, good luck with the new gun! Start with the irons. Buy a bunch of small quantities of various .22 ammo to try in the gun. You'll find that your Ruger will show a preference for one make of ammo over another. Be aware that the gun may need a few hundred rounds of firing to "break in." Basically, just have fun with it at the beginning.

Once you're confident with the gun, start working on the fundamentals of accurate shooting. With iron sights and paper targets, I'd recommend a six o'clock hold. Learn to take your time. Don't rush. Like others have said, if the shot isn't aligned on the target, don't take it. Don't be afraid to put the gun down and flex your arm. Rest your eyes by focusing on objects at different distances; just look around.

The nice thing about iron sights is that they're rugged and they're always there. Guys shot accurately for centuries with iron sights. When you're ready to make a move to an optical sight, you'll know. In the meantime, save up for when that day comes, so you can get something of good quality. The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has faded.

Most of all, have fun!

 

[Emoto]

Good advice. There's nothing wrong with iron sights, and you still have to work on your stance, grip, trigger pull, breathing, etc., anyway, so you can let the budget recover. You may even decide to stay with irons. I am pretty sure that several folks in the Twin County league use iron sights.

 

[jar]

The problem with shooting irons is the highly variable and generally poor quality of the lighting in most indoor ranges. If I was only shooting outdoors, I might try to get by with irons, but in some of the clubs my league shoots in it's extremely frustrating.

 

[jefftk]

The problem with shooting irons is the highly variable and generally poor quality of the lighting in most indoor ranges. If I was only shooting outdoors, I might try to get by with irons, but in some of the clubs my league shoots in it's extremely frustrating.

Could you just bring a lantern or some kind of clamp on light? You could probably clamp a light on to the rails for the target as that is right above your gun.
I know it might look a little strange, but why not?