Tell me about .22 Bullseye

[Terminator03]

Terminator - marvelshooter's username has reminded me of another option.

If you happen to have a nice 1911 with a good trigger, you can end up with a very nice .22 target gun by buying a target style .22 conversion.

Bob Marvel has produced similar designs for several companies. They vary in price, but all are more accurate than you are going to be for a long time.

1) Advantage Arms Target Model - Cost less than $300. Works great. Mags are cheap.
2) Marvel Precision Unit 1 - About $500. Company is no longer owned by Bob Marvel
3) Marvel Custom Guns - This is an accurized Advantage Arms conversion. I dont think its made anymore
4) Nighthawk Custom Marvel Conversion - this was cooperateive effort between Bob and NHC. After some initial teething pains, its shipping now. I'm not sure how much better it is than an advantage arms conversion.

So. If you have a decent 1911, less than $300 will get you a nice AA conversion. You can get mags for $15. Here's a pic of mine on top of my Les Baer.

Don

Don, thank you for that suggestion! I never considered that option, but I would love to have one of those even if it ended up just making my 1911 cheaper to play with at the range. Do you think that the SR1911 is reasonably good candidate for one of these conversions? I would think that this would be a great way to enter the sport and if I moved on to a better dedicated .22 at some point, the conversion would still make an excellent range toy.

 

[dcmdon]

The conversion would help you to become a better 1911 shooter. Definitely. Especially if you play games like IDPA, where gun manipulation skills are almost as important as core marksmanship skills.

I don't know what the SR1911's trigger is like, but its probably less than optimal. But then again, thats not a big deal. My current favorite host for this kit is not my Baer. Its acutally a Dan Wesson Pointman 9, 9mm 1911. Its got a gorgeous 3.1 lb trigger pull, with no creep and a nice solid reset.

Anyway, good luck with your decision, I just wanted to throw another option out there for you to consider.

Don

 

[cstockwell]

That is what he shoots and it is pretty incredible. He did all the work himself and puts up incredible scores with it. He also uses the same gun by changing the conversion to 9mm for 900 outdoor bullseye matches. It is pretty nice and I wouldn't mind trying to find a kit myself. Don gives good advice and I will pass some of this info on to some of our shooters too. If you can find a nice High Standard and get good factory mags you may be able to get yourself into a nice setup for not too much money either. They are really nice guns and the triggers are really impressive compared to stock Ruger triggers.

 

[dcmdon]

cstockwell - is 9mm the preferred caliber for centerfire bulls eye?

If so, I have to rave about my DW Pointman 9. It is a very nicely made gun. The bbl to slide lockup is rock solid, as is the slide to frame fit.

If you are a NRA certified instructor, DW gives a discounted price of about $1250. Not cheap, but the gun needs NOTHING. (other than an ambi safety if you are left handed).

Don

 

[marvelshooter]

cstockwell - is 9mm the preferred caliber for centerfire bulls eye?


Don

I don't see Charlie jumping in here so I will. A 9mm can be used for the center fire stage of a bullseye match. So can a .32 or .38 or your .45. A full bullseye match is shot in three stages. 90 shots each with a .22, anything center fire and finally the third stage which has to be shot with a .45. I have both a 9mm and a .45 1911 and as Charlie says I keep the conversion on the 9mm frame. Depending on how I feel I will convert the 9mm back for CF or just shoot the .45 twice. There is very little benefit to one method over the other. Loaded for accuracy the 9mm recoils just about the same as a .45 and you have to remember to bring both types of ammo. The 9mm can be shot at both 25 and 50 yards without adjusting the sights. The .45 can not.

 

[bbarer]

I would not consider a 9mm for centerfire Bullseye, very tough to get an accurate load with minimum recoil. .45 pretty much rule, unless you can afford a nice .32 bullseye gun. Just my $ .02.....

As a thought I wonder how many of us on this thread regularly compete with each other and don't know it. Who else shoots in the Twin County Leauge, I shoot for Taunton Blue...

 

[cstockwell]

What Dan said! Actually he knows much better than I because I am still trying to get to my first centerfire bullseye match. I can use either of my .22 bullseye pistols and I am either going to get the .32 conversion for the Walther GSP, another Pardini in 32 or just go with a 1911 in 9mm like Dan has setup. I do have the .45 setup and am still tweaking it. I was lucky enough that Dan had a scope mount and he put the mount right on the frame of my 1911 for me. He is a very good machinist. I will have to check out the DW Pointman as well Don. Thanks. I will be an NRA instructor soon but I am an FFL too so I can get discounts and guns I need.

We shoot in both the Twin County and Cape Cod Leagues for Acushnet team. A handful of other members of our team are on NES too.

 

[Moderator]

The 9mm can be shot at both 25 and 50 yards without adjusting the sights. The .45 can not.

I disagree. Some shooters have two loads for .45. One for 25 and one for 50 yards.

 

[marvelshooter]

I disagree. Some shooters have two loads for .45. One for 25 and one for 50 yards.

This is completely true. I find it easier to use one load and come up 4 clicks for 50 yards.

 

[formula]

.... handful of other members of our team are on NES too.

^^Check. I just started shooting bullseye a couple of months ago. Practicing on moving the trigger straight back and keeping the jitters out of my head. It's going to take time but things are going well so far. The more motivated and interested team members contribute greatly to keeping things inviting and challenging.

 

[dcmdon]

I'm still experimenting with loads for my 9mm 1911. But at present, nothing in 9mm is any easier to shoot than my pet light target load in .45 of 4.0gr of Clays under a 200gr swc, with a 9# recoil spring.

Don

 

[cstockwell]

^^Check. I just started shooting bullseye a couple of months ago. Practicing on moving the trigger straight back and keeping the jitters out of my head. It's going to take time but things are going well so far. The more motivated and interested team members contribute greatly to keeping things inviting and challenging.

ahh. and enters our new prodigy Sean shoots very well and will be a huge member of the team soon. It is not often you get a shooter that just starts and is immediately shooting in the 60's and 70's. No pressure though Sean. ahahhaha. Those jitters will go away the more you shoot. You are in a good position though because when you are shooting low to mid 90s in slow and then you get the jitter for timed and rapid that will work itself out. Slow seems to be the hardest to master as far as I am concerned. You keep up your shooting and practicing the way it is now and you will be shooting at the GOAL match at the end of the season.

I am not sure if any of the team captains from other teams send the results along each week to the shooters but I do keep our club website updated with both leagues. Only thing I do not do is keep the stats for other teams individual shooters. But if you download the pdf for the week results total you will see all of the teams.

www.acushnetrifleandpistol.com

 

[cstockwell]

I'm still experimenting with loads for my 9mm 1911. But at present, nothing in 9mm is any easier to shoot than my pet light target load in .45 of 4.0gr of Clays under a 200gr swc, with a 9# recoil spring.

Don

I want to work on adjusting loads for the .45 as well. I also use clays and did put a wolf reducing spring in mine but it was still having cycling issues when not using factory loads so I may have to adjust the load to a slightly higher amount of powder. Honestly I was hoping to just get it setup with one nice recipe and dot setting and not have to change it for anything. That is why I was thinking of just having another centerfire gun altogether in .32. How long have you shot centerfire bullseye Don?

 

[Moderator]

I want to work on adjusting loads for the .45 as well. I also use clays and did put a wolf reducing spring in mine but it was still having cycling issues when not using factory loads so I may have to adjust the load to a slightly higher amount of powder. Honestly I was hoping to just get it setup with one nice recipe and dot setting and not have to change it for anything. That is why I was thinking of just having another centerfire gun altogether in .32. How long have you shot centerfire bullseye Don?

I am using 4.0gr of Bullseye and a 200gr LSWC with great accuracy and zero malfunctions.

- - - Updated - - -

I shoot for the Cumberland Beagle Club in the Ocean State Pistol League. Like others have said, there is always someone willing to help you out. I am fortunate enough to shoot on a very good team with some great veteran shooters that have acquired some damn good advice over the years.

 

[formula]

Thanks, man. Looking forward to Bass River on Monday.

 

[bbarer]

I am using 4.0gr of Bullseye and a 200gr LSWC with great accuracy and zero malfunctions.

Ahh yes the magic load, I use this as well and just adjust my elevation on the rear sight for 25 or 50 yds 4 clicks for me....

I was just reminded of some advice I got on the line from Larry Carter after he shot a 298 when we were shooting outdoors with wind so strong you couldn't hold your gun straight.."Just center your dot on the bullseye and squeeze, whats the problem"

 

[dcmdon]

I want to work on adjusting loads for the .45 as well. I also use clays and did put a wolf reducing spring in mine but it was still having cycling issues when not using factory loads so I may have to adjust the load to a slightly higher amount of powder. Honestly I was hoping to just get it setup with one nice recipe and dot setting and not have to change it for anything. That is why I was thinking of just having another centerfire gun altogether in .32. How long have you shot centerfire bullseye Don?

cstockwell - I have not ever shot centerfire bullseye. I've shot .22 bullseye and am still experimenting with my .45. I'm kindof an accuracy nutjob. I came up with this combination for a local steel match. You don't need much power to knock down the steel so the load can be light for faster recoil recovery.

I actually had the gun running with 3.6 gr of bullseye but accuracy went down. 4.0 GR gave me a combination of light recoil, accuracy and reliability that met my needs.

What do you mean by "cycling issues". Is it a failure to eject or load, or a failure to chamber a round. One of the problems with 1911s and light springs is that the lockup system has a fair amount of friction. So even if you come up with a super light load that ejects and feeds properly, the super light recoil spring may not reliably go fully into battery. I had that problem with the 7# recoil spring. It worked great if the gun was impeccably with grease on the rails and locking lugs. But if it got at all dirtied up was cleaned with oil, it would not reliably go into battery.

So I went up on the recoil spring and added a bit more powder. It turned out good on all counts as accuracy went up also. Clays is a very very light and compact powder, so at 4 gr, the .45 casing is about 1/4th full. I think you reach a point where that hurts you. I've also found that using a Lee Factory crimp with the actual crimp knob turned all the way out, helps with reliability. When done this way, the die effectively full length resizes the loaded round.

Don

- - - Updated - - -

I am using 4.0gr of Bullseye and a 200gr LSWC with great accuracy and zero malfunctions.

- - - Updated - - -

I shoot for the Cumberland Beagle Club in the Ocean State Pistol League. Like others have said, there is always someone willing to help you out. I am fortunate enough to shoot on a very good team with some great veteran shooters that have acquired some damn good advice over the years.

what weight recoil spring worked out for you?

 

[cstockwell]

So even if you come up with a super light load that ejects and feeds properly, the super light recoil spring may not reliably go fully into battery. I had that problem with the 7# recoil spring. It worked great if the gun was impeccably with grease on the rails and locking lugs. But if it got at all dirtied up was cleaned with oil, it would not reliably go into battery.

bingo. pretty much the case and is what I will start looking at next. Thanks!!!

 

[Moderator]

what weight recoil spring worked out for you?

To tell you the truth, I don't know what is in it. I bought the gun already set up for .45 / centerfire and it works great, so I haven't messed with it.

 

[dcmdon]

Typo - if its running ok with 4 gr of Clays and 200 gr SWCs, its got a much lighter than stock spring in it. (My guess is 9# vs 16#). So don't shoot it with factory ammo unless you put a stiffer spring in it.

Cstockwell - I have a sloppy loose colt that will run fine with a 7# spring. But the guns that come from the factory with acceptable accuracy are just tighter. Baers are known for their very snug bushing to bbl fit.

 

[Moderator]

Typo - if its running ok with 4 gr of Clays and 200 gr SWCs, its got a much lighter than stock spring in it. (My guess is 9# vs 16#). So don't shoot it with factory ammo unless you put a stiffer spring in it.

I'm running 4.0 of Bullseye, I haven't tried clays. But like I said I don't know what the weight of the spring is as I bought the gun as is. I guess I'll find out for sure when it needs to be replaced.

Anyway Let's see some porn. Here's what I'm running

Up top is my .45 / Centerfire. Colt National Match, trigger all done up, Roco grips, Weigand mount, UltraDot.
Down below is my S&W 41, trigger all done up, Herrett grips, UltraDot

Sorry bout the crappy pic, but my cell is more convenient right now.

 

[Emoto]

I would not consider a 9mm for centerfire Bullseye, very tough to get an accurate load with minimum recoil. .45 pretty much rule, unless you can afford a nice .32 bullseye gun. Just my $ .02.....

As a thought I wonder how many of us on this thread regularly compete with each other and don't know it. Who else shoots in the Twin County Leauge, I shoot for Taunton Blue...

I shoot on the Satucket team in Twin County. I'm not one of their top shooters very often, but I have fun anyway.

 

[cstockwell]

I shoot on the Satucket team in Twin County. I'm not one of their top shooters very often, but I have fun anyway.

Congrats on your GOAL State Championship win last year!! We hope to give you a run for your money this year. The last match we lost to you at your place by 2 points but it was a lot of fun, but being that we are all tied up in the standings now we are going to have to step it up at the home match . We aren't interested in second place this year in Twin County and want to be 1st in both leagues. We are greedy I guess...I prefer to call it competitive.

 

[Emoto]

Congrats on your GOAL State Championship win last year!! We hope to give you a run for your money this year. The last match we lost to you at your place by 2 points but it was a lot of fun, but being that we are all tied up in the standings now we are going to have to step it up at the home match . We aren't interested in second place this year in Twin County and want to be 1st in both leagues. We are greedy I guess...I prefer to call it competitive.

Thank you kindly! First time I had ever been involved in anything like that, having shot previously for the (now non-existent) Hanson team.

Yeah, we are neck and neck now. You guys are always right up there. This is no cakewalk.

It's fun, though, isn't it?

 

[marvelshooter]

I shoot on the Satucket team in Twin County. I'm not one of their top shooters very often, but I have fun anyway.

Ah Satucket - the evil empire. Just kidding. I always like shooting against you guys. Win or lose. Good people.

 

[Emoto]

Ah Satucket - the evil empire. Just kidding. I always like shooting against you guys. Win or lose. Good people.

It is a nice group of folks. But really, all the teams seem to be very nice. There are only a few individuals here and there who are kind of a pain.

 

[kiver]

While shooting today I had an alibi and the guys there watched me. Almost all of them told me I was using too much pinkey What is with that? How should I change my grip?

 

[Emoto]

While shooting today I had an alibi and the guys there watched me. Almost all of them told me I was using too much pinkey What is with that? How should I change my grip?

I can't pretend to have any deep knowledge, but I doubt that your pinky had anything to do with the alibi.

This page is pretty good; lots of great info on the site: http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm

The diagram:

I can't say what they saw watching you, but take a look at your targets and see if the shots distributed in any way like the above.

 

[kiver]

Because I had an alibi I shot five rounds alone and they watched. My grip had nothing due to the stovepipe

 

[Emoto]

Because I had an alibi I shot five rounds alone and they watched. My grip had nothing due to the stovepipe

Holes trending toward the lower right?