Tell me about 1-4x optics

[kalash]

Looking for an optic, preferably <$400-ish. 1-4x power (with true 1x). Something that's good for CQB-type stuff, where I can quickly pick up the sight picture, but also to help me see the target better out to 300 yards. Basically a 3-gun type setup that's versatile from 0 to 300.

-FFP or SFP?
-What type of reticle would be best? I'm intrigued by the Burris CQ - seems like it would be very quick/easy to get the sight on target; I think Bushnell has something similar too.
-What's a good quick-detach mount? Anything besides LaRue?
-Preference for something sturdy that I can beat on for a long time in dusty or wet conditions.

I've been doing some research into this but the industry is moving very quickly so wondering what's currently out there.

 

[MMArtist]

Looking for an optic, preferably <$400-ish. 1-4x power (with true 1x). Something that's good for CQB-type stuff, where I can quickly pick up the sight picture, but also to help me see the target better out to 300 yards. Basically a 3-gun type setup that's versatile from 0 to 300.

-FFP or SFP?
-What type of reticle would be best? I'm intrigued by the Burris CQ - seems like it would be very quick/easy to get the sight on target; I think Bushnell has something similar too.
-What's a good quick-detach mount? Anything besides LaRue?
-Preference for something sturdy that I can beat on for a long time in dusty or wet conditions.

I've been doing some research into this but the industry is moving very quickly so wondering what's currently out there.

-Focal plane is preference.. depends what your doing.
-Reticle again is preference. I like very simple. I run a Trij Accupoint 1x6 with a triangle post. Simple as a gets. If you wanna do all kinds of ranging and windage stuff the ACSS is popular.
-Detach mounts there is Spuhr, Geiselle, Larue, American Defense there are tons. I use a Aero Ultralight as its one of the lightest.. its not quick detach though.
-Real durability in optics is $$$$ as in more than 400.

At under $400 there isnt many options..

Primary Arms 1x4 or 1x6
Burris 1x4 mtac
Vortex Strike Eagle 1x6

For a bit more your options open up. The new Steiner PX4i is decent at around 550.

To be honest if your looking for a good optic that will last, add a 1 in front of that 400.

 

[71montess]

On the mounts I have a few American Defense quick mount easy to use and holds a good zero. On the scope I just bought the vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x24 it’s supposed to be a popular 3gun type scope, also picked up the throw lever attachment for quick focus ch@nges.

 

[92G]

Looking for an optic, preferably <$400-ish. 1-4x power (with true 1x). Something that's good for CQB-type stuff, where I can quickly pick up the sight picture, but also to help me see the target better out to 300 yards. Basically a 3-gun type setup that's versatile from 0 to 300.

-FFP or SFP?
-What type of reticle would be best? I'm intrigued by the Burris CQ - seems like it would be very quick/easy to get the sight on target; I think Bushnell has something similar too.
-What's a good quick-detach mount? Anything besides LaRue?
-Preference for something sturdy that I can beat on for a long time in dusty or wet conditions.

I've been doing some research into this but the industry is moving very quickly so wondering what's currently out there.

1) Second focal plane. on a 1-4x I only use the 1x and 4x, so the only mag where holdovers will matter is the 4x. the intermediate magnifications can be used but IMO it's quicker and better to just learn the two settings and use them. so FFP is actually a detriment there.

2) whatever reticle you like. some of the burris optics I've looked through have thick reticles. there's no right or wrong just preference. i like the ACSS among others.

3) american defense mounts are a good value
https://www.amazon.com/American-Defense-AD-RECON-STD-Riflescope/dp/B002E6USZK

4) i like my vortex viper PST gen 2 1-6x. for a few hunderd over your budget it's a fantastic optic and you won't be disappointed. the cheaper primary arms optics are solid but the eye box seems tight and glass i just meh. the platinum series primary arms is phenomenal but for the $$ it had better be. i think the vortex and leupold options are the best values in a 1-x scope.

 

[TomMontana]

At 4x, you can still see the bullet holes at 50 yds. If you don't want to lug around a spotting scope, then 1-4x would be comfortable at that distance. Anything further out would be steel targets. And most of the 1-4x have etched reticles.

 

[mikelawtown]

I had the Millet DSM-1 on an AR and it was very clear, a tad heavy but it worked out pretty good imop. I sold it and replace it with a PA 1-4 and put that on my AK for 100 yards. I liked the Millet better.Gear Review: Millet 1-4 x 24 DMS Rifle Scope BK81002 - The Truth About Guns

 

[wmass]

I have 2 Vortex pst 1-4x. One on a 5.56 and the other on a .308. The 5.56 has been bashed around in 3 gun for a few years now with no issues other than cosmetic scratches. I like the reticle. At 1x it looks similar to an eotech and at 4x you can easily see mils. The exposed turrets versions (moa/ mrad) are $500 and the capped version is a few $ less.
For mounts I currently have a Larue and a GGG. Both are solid but both are in the $200 range. ADM is a very solid mount as well. I set one up for a buddy and he’s very happy with it. If it weren’t for my habit of playing musical optics I wouldn’t have gone with the qd versions. A one piece Aero or Vortex is a great option as well.

 

[PatMcD]

Focal plane does not matter for what you want it to do.

Vortex makes good glass, and this is a heck of a deal:
Vortex 1-4x24 Crossfire II Riflescope (V-Brite Reticle)

 

[CLW42]

Steiner p4xi

 

[kalash]

Focal plane does not matter for what you want it to do.

Vortex makes good glass, and this is a heck of a deal:
Vortex 1-4x24 Crossfire II Riflescope (V-Brite Reticle)

Admittedly I know jack about optics but I have a red dot on my MkIII and it takes a bit of time to acquire it when I first pick the gun up. The crossfire you linked to seems like it would have the same issue, no?

Compare that to, say, Burris CQ, which seems much easier/quicker to pick up:

What say you, three gunners of NES?

 

[mac1911]

I have a older larue QD Mount 104 IIRC. Its a very good mount.
Don't discount the larue and I find it worth the money.
Need to ask why QD mounts?

I bought the Burris 1x4 when they where giving away the fast fire red dot with it. I have the Burris one piece QD mount and find it nice also.

You want CQC style optics keep the reticle simple if you zero your rifle correctly to your ammo you don't need hold overs to often. Also unless your trying to shoot tight groups in the X ring don't worry to much the reticle sub tensions to much
For example sight in your rifle and optic set at 4x to shoot approx 4" high with M855. You now can the .down to 1x and see the difference. I will say with the ammo/rifle/shooter error your not going to see a huge change.
Now with ammo like M855 you can zero for 4" high of point of aim at 100 yards then effectively hit 10" target out to 300 plus yards with out changing your hold point.

 

[kalash]

QD mount because I'm a sucker for iron sights and will want to go back and forth between BUIS and the optic. I also don't want to get off set sights.

As far as zeroing... I have my sights zeroed at 50 and that means a 6 o'clock hold at both 100 and 200 - very simple. Qualified for 200 yards at Harvard with that setup. I doubt I'd use the holdovers or fine adjustments much on the optic - I'm just going to zero it where I like it and Kentucky windage from there like I do with my irons.

 

[whalerman69]

On the mounts I have a few American Defense quick mount easy to use and holds a good zero. On the scope I just bought the vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x24 it’s supposed to be a popular 3gun type scope, also picked up the throw lever attachment for quick focus ch@nges.

I have the same setup and do like it. I also have flip up iron sites on 45* mounts for backup.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Burris in my experience has been a good value, although the Steiner P4xi (same ownership group) is nicer but above your price range at $579

One of the better values out there is also from the company Athlon Optics. Their Midas BTR is a 1-6 and under your budget. I've been considering their top end Cronus for a bolt gun build.

If you arent ranging your targets with your reticle and you aren't worried about holdovers at variable magnification being accurate the focal plane, first or second doesn't matter. My money will always be on first focal plane, but different people have different requirements

Midas BTR 1-6x24 ATSR16 SFP IR MIL - Athlon Optics - Rifle Scopes - Binoculars - Red Dot Scopes - Spotting Scopes - Rangefinders - Riflescopes

Oh yeah, theres also SWFA

SWFA SS 1-4x24 Tactical 30mm Riflescope Kit

 

[Cuz]

With your budget I doubt you’ll find any front focal plane options, only SFP. I think you should take a good look at the new Burris RT-6. It’s a 1-6x with decent reticle, and with their warranty you won’t have to worry about banging it around. Street price looks to be about $350. Brownells is currently offering it with a free mount for $350 though currently out of stock. May be worth backordering if you don’t need it yesterday.

 

[Supermoto]

Admittedly I know jack about optics but I have a red dot on my MkIII and it takes a bit of time to acquire it when I first pick the gun up. The crossfire you linked to seems like it would have the same issue, no?

Compare that to, say, Burris CQ, which seems much easier/quicker to pick up:

What say you, three gunners of NES?

I didn't like the Burris reticle. I found it way to big and intrusive. I prefer a single bright dot, just as fast up close and non of the clutter for medium and longer shots. Its going to come down to personal preference.

Scope with red dot or illuminated reticles will be much easier/faster the dot than a red dot on a handgun. You just look down the scope and there it is. Just be aware that a lot of day time illuminated reticles are really not day time bright and wash out very easily

 

[mac1911]

QD mount because I'm a sucker for iron sights and will want to go back and forth between BUIS and the optic. I also don't want to get off set sights.

As far as zeroing... I have my sights zeroed at 50 and that means a 6 o'clock hold at both 100 and 200 - very simple. Qualified for 200 yards at Harvard with that setup. I doubt I'd use the holdovers or fine adjustments much on the optic - I'm just going to zero it where I like it and Kentucky windage from there like I do with my irons.

Good enough , I know people who buy QD mounts for rifles with no BUIS and that extra money can be put into better glass.
I say save a bit more and you will enter a larger selection for the 1x? Market
My friends son picked up one of these while back I really like it. In hind sight wish I snagged one instead of the Burris.
Leupold Mark AR MOD 1 Rifle Scope 1.5-4x 20mm 1/10 Mil - MPN: 115387

As far as zero goes, keep your irons sighted where they are if you like it for shooting at a fixed size bulls eye. For CQC zero for center hold and size of target you want to hit. This will give you max point blank range.
You can get an idea of your point blank range by playing with ballistic calculators. Find the zero that gives you a trajectory that had a max rise and fall below the sight line of 5 inches. Giving a center hold and hit a 10" target with out holding over.

I'm not sure of your zero method ?
If your zeroing at 50 yards is it to point of aim to point of impact ? If so if you aim at 6oclock at 100 on let's sat a SR 1 target you just added 3" of drop at 100 yards making a 12" or so drop at 300 yards.
Switch to center hold then you don't need to know what size target your shooting at. Aim for the center and squeeze off a round.
I don't get out much for shooting steel and when I do its fun shooting at friends house. With a A2 and M193 ammo I have it zeroed at 27 yards and I can ding the 10" plates out to 350 yards when I'm shooting well. With out touching the adjustments or holding over.....sometimes I need to slightly hold over but that's a condition of my eyes and light conditions.

 

[mac1911]

I’ve been considering this for a while well I’m saving up some more pennies for the Razor HD Gen II -E it’s a 1-6 that people claim to be a standard now. The (-E) is the latest that just came out this year and is a 1/4 pound lighter. The scope MSRP is 2000$ but can be found online for about 12-1300.
The reticle is the JM-1 jerry mickulek designed the reticle. People seem to love it. If you can save up for one I’d recommend it

About time they got a pro to suggest a reticle design. I'm actually surprised its as "complicated" as it is coming from Jerry. I like simple reticles like that. Also finally they give the info you need for rerticle sub tensions on the hash marks right in the instructions so you know moa change between marks to be able to figure out your zeros for any round. 1/2 moa dot is nice also won't cover a lot of the target.
http://www.vortexoptics.com/uploads/sub_rzr-g2_s_1-6x24_jm-1_moa.jpg

 

[kalash]

Here's the Miculek-designed JM-1 reticle:

I feel like I'd prefer to have a nice big red center for quicker acquisition but obviously Jerry knows just a tad more than me about this stuff. So I'm just curious why he would prefer a simple crosshairs design.

 

[71montess]

Bushnell 1x4 and a 30% rebate.
Bushnell - Promotions

 

[mac1911]

Here's the Miculek-designed JM-1 reticle:

I feel like I'd prefer to have a nice big red center for quicker acquisition but obviously Jerry knows just a tad more than me about this stuff. So I'm just curious why he would prefer a simple crosshairs design.

Jerry is a KISS fan. To big of a dot you will obscure your target. A 2moa dot will cover a 10" target at 500 yards bringing your accuracy way down.
In the end you want end use to match your reticle as best as possible. Watching the video above " accuracy" is not a huge factor they are getting man size hits quickly and that 350 yard target looked huge.
Good luck in the hunt a post your results

 

[kalash]

Jerry is a KISS fan. To big of a dot you will obscure your target. A 2moa dot will cover a 10" target at 500 yards bringing your accuracy way down

How about a small dot with a nice big red halo? That would draw your eyes in but still keep the target unobscured at distance.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

How about a small dot with a nice big red halo? That would draw your eyes in but still keep the target unobscured at distance.

Will you be using to shoot 200yds? The big red circle gets distracting at 200-300yds

 

[kalash]

Will you be using to shoot 200yds? The big red circle gets distracting at 200-300yds

Yes. I'd like something that a) helps me see the target at 200-300 yards (with bad eyes and irons it ain't easy right now), and b) fast target acquisition at close range, as I'd like to get into 3 gun more (I tried it years back and loved it).

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Yes. I'd like something that a) helps me see the target at 200-300 yards (with bad eyes and irons it ain't easy right now), and b) fast target acquisition at close range, as I'd like to get into 3 gun more (I tried it years back and loved it).

Personally, I would recommend a single small dot and a first focal plane with some sort of accommodation for ballistic compensation. That's not easy for $400, but can be had for a few hundred more

 

[mac1911]

How about a small dot with a nice big red halo? That would draw your eyes in but still keep the target unobscured at distance.

Your going to have to try different optics, I don't like all the stuff in the way. This is why most of my scopes are simple duplex "30/30" reticles. Easy to use and range find with on a simple level.
Of all the "red dot" scopes I have owned I'm down to one.
A old gen1 Tasco pro point. I sold the free fast fire to recoup a little of the cost off the Burris.
I'm right there with you with vision.
I spent about 8 months trying every scope I could get behind looking for something that really worked for me and I liked.
The Burris I have does not get used much and at the moment I don't even know where it ended up. I also have tried some blue colored reticles and like them better than red or green. Sadly they are cheap BSA on air soft guns. The blue really stands out for me

 

[mikeboston]

I like the Steiner P4Xi 1-4 and I got the best price at optics planet

 

[Supermoto]

How about a small dot with a nice big red halo? That would draw your eyes in but still keep the target unobscured at distance.

I found that when I was shooting a target that was just inside the outer ring in size, that transitions were difficult. The outer ring blocked too much of the target. It didn't draw my eye in to the target at all.

The JM reticle is .5 moa, but when you crank up the intensity, it flares so it looks larger. So if I am doing a lot of precision, I keep it low, for faster stuff, I turn it up

 

[snubnose]

Ditto the Steiner p4xi-as close to a true 1x as you will get, the red dot is a perfect dot-in case you have eye issues also and made in the U.S. with German glass.

Rifle Scopes, Premium Optics, Rifles, & More - EuroOptic.com

A bit of a hike from here but worth every mile if you want handle/look through an awful lot of scopes-prices very competitive.

 

[E.Stoner]

I have a trijicon 1-8x accupower with a segmented circle /moa reticle that is phenominal I had it on an AR for about a year but now it live on a SCAR 17. The 1-8 is pretty enourmous and on the heavy side but at 1x it behaves just like a red dot (similar to an eotech donut of death) and and the 4x-8x is great. Very crisp/clear glass.
I've been looking at the trijicon 1-4x's and 1-6xs to replace on the AR . I think I have settled on 1-6x, but haven't decided if I'm going for an accupower or accupoint. Obv the price point is higher. Seems like the vortex is the gold standard for the sub $800 price point.