State senators debate tougher fines for hunting violations (Mass.)

[whacko]

Are they going to punish state troopers who shoot at dogs after dark, and hit innocent women instead?

Never happens to the anointed ones.

 

[whacko]

I've run into one particular EPO in Medfield who goes out of his way to find things unlawful to charge us with. On more than one occasion this a**h*** shows up at the trucks.

Showing up at the trucks is generally how they do their job no? What kinds of stuff does he hit folks with?

 

[Sparkey]

I have run into some decent EPO's and some who are asshats that don't have a clue about hunting or fishing and would probably get lost if they went 100' into the woods.

 

[Al-Jim19]

Isn’t part of the debate over steeper penalties opening up crossbow hunting to everyone? Read that it made it through the senate.

 

[whacko]

I have run into some decent EPO's and some who are asshats that don't have a clue about hunting or fishing and would probably get lost if they went 100' into the woods.

I had one come out to a local lake I was ice fishing in a few years back. He stood on shore.....I was 50 yards out......asked me to come to shore. I did. He said "I hate walking on ice....how thick is it?". I told him like 10 inches so plenty safe. He asked for my license.....handed him my sporting license......this was mid February mind you......he said oh that sucks you didn't get a deer this year......as he pointed at my 2 buck tags......I said well if I used one of those already you'd be issuing me a summons right?!? He looked at me funny and said I don't get it. I said those are my tags for next fall. He handed it back and said have a nice day.

 

[Dadstoys]

I have never heard of any story like this in the past with the mass epos. The ones I've encountered have all been professional. Out of curiosity......what offense did they hit him for? Ripping the 2nd tag is nowhere to be found in the abstract. In fact you can reprint your own tag on your home computer if you lose it so not sure where the epos we're going with the ripped second tag. So...........what did they fine him for.....exactly?

Remember the old licenses with the perforated tags ?
They got him for partially detatching the second tag.
It used to say right on it , do not detatch prior to killing a deer.
They didn't fine him BTW , just took his deer.
If they actually fined him and he contested it , they would have gone to court and most likely would have gotten pounded by any sane judge for that petty show of D-baggery.
They just thought it was funny harassing an old man.
My hero's.
I witnessed another example of the high quality lads in green last year in Gloucester .
Going down Washington street one of them came haul assing out of a side street without even slowing down right in front of the car in front of me.
She locked up the brakes and swerved, missing him by inches.
She yells at him to be careful.
The little jackass jumps out of his truck and yells at her " You don't tell ME anything, I'm the LAW!"

I gave up my trappers license just to not have to deal with the bullshit from those clowns.
The last trapper we had working for us chucked it in because of them too.
The last encounter with one he had, there was some question about some paperwork ( Which was in order BTW ) and the little jerk tells him "Well you know if I wanted, I could put the cuffs on you right now."
That was the last straw for him, he just does it in NH now.

 

[HARRYM]

The object in MA. is to drive hunting into extinction.
These clowns are more than happy to do their part in it.
If you hunt , you are the enemy and will be treated as such by these morons.
I have never had a positive interaction with them in the last 40 years.

I had one who I looked into after one unpleasant encounter just out of curiousity .
Come to find out he was turned down by five PD's before landing up a warden.
Not shocked .

Contrast that with other states.
A buddy went to PA. to try bear hunting.
He ran into a Warden who actually told him to jump in the truck and took him to a good spot to set up and told him good luck, get a big one.

Here there would be six of them waiting to nail you for something like your orange vest was 499 inches of orange instead of 500 when you came out of the woods.

The reason I say when you come out of the woods, is they don't go in the woods much around here after all the death threats they got after on of them shot an unarmed clammer in the back for walking away from him.
Put the guy in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.

Nahhh....no worries....F&G here are either staking out Kiddie Pools or home washing their trucks.....

 

[whacko]

Remember the old licenses with the perforated tags ?
They got him for partially detatching the second tag.
It used to say right on it , do not detatch prior to killing a deer.
They didn't fine him BTW , just took his deer.
If they actually fined him and he contested it , they would have gone to court and most likely would have gotten pounded by any sane judge for that petty show of D-baggery.
They just thought it was funny harassing an old man.
My hero's.
I witnessed another example of the high quality lads in green last year in Gloucester .
Going down Washington street one of them came haul assing out of a side street without even slowing down right in front of the car in front of me.
She locked up the brakes and swerved, missing him by inches.
She yells at him to be careful.
The little jackass jumps out of his truck and yells at her " You don't tell ME anything, I'm the LAW!"

I gave up my trappers license just to not have to deal with the bullshit from those clowns.
The last trapper we had working for us chucked it in because of them too.
The last encounter with one he had, there was some question about some paperwork ( Which was in order BTW ) and the little jerk tells him "Well you know if I wanted, I could put the cuffs on you right now."
That was the last straw for him, he just does it in NH now.

I've only been hunting since 2012 and have always printed my own tags at home online so don't remember the old ones. Yeah....if that was what happened that's a dick move. An 80 year old guy could have easily torn it by accident.

I've had very few encounters with epo in mass and all have been pretty professional.....only odd one was the one that I posted about a few minutes ago when the guy wouldn't walk onto the ice and then asked me about my buck tags that were for the next fall.....but it was tame.....and the guy kinda knew he was wrong.

 

[71montess]

Showing up at the trucks is generally how they do their job no? What kinds of stuff does he hit folks with?

Pulls in like a Jáck booted thug, lines us up checks for loaded guns in trucks and goes up my arse , like you said , just doing his job. I’m glad you like this kind of supervision.

 

[whacko]

Pulls in like a Jáck booted thug, lines us up checks for loaded guns in trucks and goes up my arse , like you said , just doing his job. I’m glad you like this kind of supervision.

Hold on now. I didn't say I liked the supervision..... Was just pointing out the obvious and how they do their job.

Out of curiosity.....how would you rather have them approach a group of trucks and hunters?

 

[M60]

Poaching is a problem in some areas. My brother lives in Freetown, where there is a large family that for generation has been doing drives year round. Property lines don't seem to matter to them. They go where the deer go and no one does anything, including law enforcement. This family is notorious. Seems as though this is one family that the law doesn't want to meet in the woods.

 

[whacko]

Poaching is a problem in some areas. My brother lives in Freetown, where there is a large family that for generation has been doing drives year round. Property lines don't seem to matter to them. They go where the deer go and no one does anything, including law enforcement. This family is notorious. Seems as though this is one family that the law doesn't want to meet in the woods.

Out if season hunting should not be an issue to ping them on.

 

[amm5061]

Im not sure I follow what your saying. Are you saying poachers go after trophy animals or freezer animals?

My thought it that actual "poaching" of deer in mass (hunting out of season, hunting without a license, taking antlerless deer without a tag) is not that common based on the relatively inexpensive price of a hunting license, density of deer in most zones, availability of antlerless tags in most zones, and low number of hunters.

I'm saying that both are reasons for poaching. You just addressed the freezer issue, and I agree completely with you on all points there.

The other reason for poaching--trophies--is just as uncommon here for the same reasons, and also because we don't have a prevalence of trophy class bucks. If you want a 12 point to hang on your wall, you're going to go to a place where deer grow that large in order to shoot one. That's really not Massachusetts.

These additional fines and lengthened jail time is about punishing gun owners and trying to kill off all hunting, not just the illegal kind.

 

[BrianWilson]

We're not exactly overrun with trophy bucks

Not so sure about this. I drive 5 hours into ME to hunt with my son, and my buddy sends me game cam pics of massive massive bucks that are 15 mins from my house the whole time I'm gone.

 

[71montess]

Not so sure about this. I drive 5 hours into ME to hunt with my son, and my buddy sends me game cam pics of massive massive bucks that are 15 mins from my house the whole time I'm gone.

South of Boston

 

[Dadstoys]

There are some trophy class deer around here.
They get that big staying clear of us knuckle heads with guns lol
They usually show up on the trail cameras about 2AM

 

[Sprocket]

one more of the "one thousand cuts" - pretty much a stepping stone to fining hunting altogether.

 

[Dadstoys]

If your in the woods with a gun in Ma. You have broken some law.
Even if someone has to make it up.

 

[DrBurnsides]

Perfect idea. You get caught poaching. You have to buy a 5 year hunting license. Get caught again. Mandatory auto renew license. Default.

 

[Individualist]

About the only thing MA officials excel at are increasing restrictions to exert more control or raising fees and taxes to pay for their bloated salaries and spending. This latest should come as a surprise to no one.

 

[Mark from MA]

How is this even a problem in this state? We're not exactly overrun with trophy bucks, though turkeys are actually overpopulated from what I've seen.

This seems like an attempt at stealing more money, and if they increased the jail time enough in some cases to create additional PPs and strip away guns.

My guess, is they are doing it to restrict rights and gun ownership....and make more money.

Poaching is generally not a problem in this state. We generally aren't a trophy state and the deer per square mile here, although higher in eastern zones where hunting is restricted, to little blocks of protected or unprotected woods....the overall population in MA is piss poor compared to NY, CT and anywhere South of it, and pretty much all Midwestern states. Sure, guys from NH or Maine may come here because they have 1 deer per square mile or something, but we aren't importing hunters from anywhere else.

In MA, the main issue and what I think happens the most, guys buying unlimited antlerless tags for Zones 9-14 and using them in Zones 1-8.
This is a problem and has been for a while. A lot of these asshats group hunt with ten guys, grab whatever tags they can buy. This is another reason why the deer pop is very low in Zones 1-8. In my area of Zone 5, I'm betting we are flirting with less than 10 deer per square mile....yet we have dummies in groups, killing 50 pound yearlings with a Martha's Vineyard tag or Zone 10 tag.

I've talked with the idiots, they don't consider it poaching because they bought the tag. Its 100% poaching. I used to let it go...but no more.....I'm out there passing the one doe I see because we have a population issue, and some ahole shoots it on the wrong tag...NFW.

I'd love to see antler restrictions come in here, it would help the situation. I'd also love to see private land restrictions, meaning you need to have private land permission written. That would also help a lot, so when those Aholes shoot deer on a Zone 14 tag, they need to show some private land permission forms with it. Or if they intend to poach..which is shooting does in the wrong zone, the Fish Cops can build a solid case against them because they have no private land permission, etc...

 

[Winchester73]

This is a solution searching for a problem. If illegal hunting or fishing was a big enough problem then we'd be hearing about it.

 

[amm5061]

I'd love to see antler restrictions come in here, it would help the situation. I'd also love to see private land restrictions, meaning you need to have private land permission written. That would also help a lot, so when those Aholes shoot deer on a Zone 14 tag, they need to show some private land permission forms with it. Or if they intend to poach..which is shooting does in the wrong zone, the Fish Cops can build a solid case against them because they have no private land permission, etc...

Be careful what you wish for. PA instituted some seriously retarded antler restrictions and it drives everyone nuts because 8 points and up have always been scarce in many regions, but finding a pretty large 6 point or even a few sizable 4-ish points was pretty common. It has lead to many lean years for taking bucks for us. Shockingly this year we managed to bag two 8 points, but I personally had to pass on at least 4 bucks because of the stupid 3 up tine rule.

That said, some basic common sense shit isn't a bad idea. Don't shoot anything with spots, don't shoot the spikes, etc., but I'm not sure that ought to be regulated. It should be taught in hunter ed as the sporting and ethical thing to do.

 

[poorbucks]

What a joke.
There's barely anyone hunting in this state anymore , never mind poaching.
A lot of the guys I know that hunted have chucked it in because of the bullshit in this state.
I could spend a whole night typing out the cheap shit asshattery of the clam cops.
I'll give one good example of what it's like to hunt here..

There was a local guy in his 80's who due to his age just used to limp down to a stump out on the back of his property and sit for an hour or two during the season.
That's about all he could manage.
One day luck smiled on him and a deer actually came by and he shot it.
He called my buddy to help him get it out and take it down to check it in.
When they got there the ponytailed shithead at the checking station told him he had a problem.
He had partially torn the second deer tag on his license while detatching the first.

The guy tells him he needs to come back in an hour. So he did
There where five of the boys in green waiting there, when they walked in.
Long story short, they "Confiscated" his deer and took his license because he tore a piece of paper.
My buddy came damn close to going off the deep end over it.
He told them what he was going on was elderly abuse.
They told him, Why don't you go wait in the truck , to which he responded , how about I don't ?
They pretty much just ripped off what was probably the last deer the old fella was ever going to get for some venison for their own freezers because none of them could probably get one on their own on a bet and because f*ck you we can.

This is all just one more way to harass hunters and gun owners , nothing more.

what's sad, is I believe this 100%, i have witnessed much of their nonsense first hand

 

[Mark from MA]

View attachment 219026
South of Boston

That's like a 130 class deer that my buddy who hunts Kansas passes ten of them a day during his rut hunts there.
They are all over the place. He sees on average 40 deer a day during a sit in good conditions.

Not saying there aren't a few real nice deer in MA, they are, and they are usually noctournal as heck.

 

[Mark from MA]

Be careful what you wish for. PA instituted some seriously retarded antler restrictions and it drives everyone nuts because 8 points and up have always been scarce in many regions, but finding a pretty large 6 point or even a few sizable 4-ish points was pretty common. It has lead to many lean years for taking bucks for us. Shockingly this year we managed to bag two 8 points, but I personally had to pass on at least 4 bucks because of the stupid 3 up tine rule.

That said, some basic common sense shit isn't a bad idea. Don't shoot anything with spots, don't shoot the spikes, etc., but I'm not sure that ought to be regulated. It should be taught in hunter ed as the sporting and ethical thing to do.

I agree I don't like laws being mandated either. But the reality is MA is full of brown it's down clowns. In my area, it's because you are lucky to see a deer when you hunt. If there were more deer, people would be more selective I think. Because when I hunt other states with a shxt ton more deer.....most guys leave the small shxt alone and shoot a doe for meat.

You say the years were lean? Were you able to shoot does? Why shoot a six point buck, when you can legally take a nice fat doe. If the herd is healthy and there are a good amount of deer per square mile. Usually you see more does than bucks anyway.
I can understand, new hunters or kids wanting to take a buck, and they should. But seasoned hunters who are pretty much looking for meat? Don't get it, let the bucks grow.

My buddy that hunts PA has the opposite experience....after the restriction rule went in, he's seeing some slammers and took a nice 8pt this year. Actually says he is amazed by the quality of the deer he's seeing, didn't think PA could grow racks like that. Says the restrictions seem to working great according to his game camera.

 

[amm5061]

I agree I don't like laws being mandated either. But the reality is MA is full of brown it's down clowns. In my area, it's because you are lucky to see a deer when you hunt. If there were more deer, people would be more selective.

You say the years were lean? Were you able to shoot does? Why shoot a six point buck, when you can legally take a nice fat doe. If the herd is healthy and there are a good amount of deer per square mile.

My buddy that hunts PA has the opposite experience....after the restriction rule went in, he's seeing some slammers and took a nice 8pt this year. Says the restrictions seem to working great according to his game camera.

Doe season was typically separate from buck season. You couldn't, and now again you can't, shoot a doe during buck season. Also the 6 point bucks in our area were bigger than the does.

The PA Game Commission did combine buck and doe season for a few years, and that helped fill the freezers for a little while, but they changed the rules again so for the first week you can't shoot does. The real problem for us is that the bow hunters have such a long season that they typically clean house before rifle and muzzle loader comes into season.

 

[Mark from MA]

It's tough to "clean house" with a bow unless your out there every day, it's a limiting device, not like you can shoot something at 200 yards. Take up bowhunting...you'll see more deer when the woods aren't full of people, still have to get close though.

 

[amm5061]

It's tough to "clean house" with a bow unless your out there every day, it's a limiting device, not like you can shoot something at 200 yards. Take up bowhunting...you'll see more deer when the woods aren't full of people, still have to get close though.

You're forgetting that PA has a substantially larger number of hunters than MA does. That, along with the fact that they actually *are* out in the woods almost every day, and a nearly 3 month long season, and yeah, they clean up pretty good.

 

[Al-Jim19]

Any update on s.249? Is that the number? I’d like a crossbow but probably won’t get one unless it could be hunted with at some point.