Shouldering AR pistol with brace, no longer legal per ATF?

[browncoat]

LOL you can make a pistol a rifle, then convert that rifle to a pistol, but you can't convert a rifle to a pistol.

I understand what you're saying, but that sentence really tickles me.

Because it is all ridiculous. It reads more like silly superstitions than law.

 

[sweed]

About the vertical foregrip: I think I read somewhere that if your AR pistol is longer than 26" you can put on a vertical foregrip, and anything less than the 26" would be considered AOW if you install a vertical foregrip.

In the letter, they addressed the AFG not the VFG. I think you're right on the VFG. A pistol equipped with an AFG is lawful per NFA. Not so much with the VFG. Unfortunately. Only good news is that it's the $5 tax not the $200 tax.

Even if it's over 26" in length from end of barrel (not muzzle device) to the end of the buffer tube/ sig brace?

Still trying to figure this out

One last time, anyone?

 

[Kevin_NH]

One last time, anyone?

You're in New Hampshire, do what you want, local cops are unlikely to jack you up over it.

Or if you are risk-adverse, just pay the $200 to make your rifle into an SBR, make it look like whatever you want. If you think you might want to sell it someday, pay the $200 to build as AOW so your future buyer can just pay the $5 transfer tax.

Here's the 2011 BATFE letter on 26" OAL and VFG.

 

[exo]

Or if you are risk-adverse, just pay the $200 to make your rifle into an SBR, make it look like whatever you want. If you think you might want to sell it someday, pay the $200 to build as AOW so your future buyer can just pay the $5 transfer tax.

Does that work? Can you put a stock on a registered AOW, or does the ATF get all butthurt about it?

 

[Kevin_NH]

Does that work? Can you put a stock on a registered AOW, or does the ATF get all butthurt about it?

AOW allows for a vertical foregrip on a pistol (sweed's other question), cannot legally add a shoulder stock to an AOW. OTOH, you can take the shoulder stock off an SBR and it is still an SBR.

 

[Tracer1951]

All the blame should go to the STUPID people who kept writing the ATF asking for clarification....what the hell did you expect! A letter from the ATF stating it was ok to use it as a stock ?? They are they are their own worst enemy! When has the ATF EVER issued anything that was for/pro/beneficial to gun owners! I guess you just can't fix stupid!

 

[the_shootist]

All the blame should go to the STUPID people who kept writing the ATF asking for clarification....what the hell did you expect! A letter from the ATF stating it was ok to use it as a stock ?? They are they are their own worst enemy! When has the ATF EVER issued anything that was for/pro/beneficial to gun owners! I guess you just can't fix stupid!

^^^^This baby...THIS!!!^^^^^^^^

 

[dcmdon]

Does that work? Can you put a stock on a registered AOW, or does the ATF get all butthurt about it?

Its a pistol if under 26". Its simply a "firearm" if its over 26" in.

(the ATF Tech branch issued a letter on this. I read it recently, but can't find it)

Either way, If you want to put a fore-grip on a stockless gun over 26" you are fine.
If you want to put a fore-grip on stockless gun under 26", its an AOW.

If you are going to bother registering a NFA firearm, you might as well just register it as a SBR, which is really what you want in the first place.

Don

 

[drgrant]

All the blame should go to the STUPID people who kept writing the ATF asking for clarification....what the hell did you expect! A letter from the ATF stating it was ok to use it as a stock ?? They are they are their own worst enemy! When has the ATF EVER issued anything that was for/pro/beneficial to gun owners! I guess you just can't fix stupid!

People are stupid. And theres this segment of dumb gun owners afraid of their own shadow whose first instinct is to ask "big brother" for an approval letter.

 

[dcmdon]

People are stupid. And theres this segment of dumb gun owners afraid of their own shadow whose first instinct is to ask "big brother" for an approval letter.

That is the problem. They don't seem to understand that our legal system based on English Common Law assumes everything is legal unless it is explicitly prohibited. i.e. Government doesn't grant rights, it takes them away.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard a gun guy say something like "Well show me in the law where it says XYZ is legal". I could take us out for a pizza in the North End.

Don

 

[drgrant]

That is the problem. They don't seem to understand that our legal system based on English Common Law assumes everything is legal unless it is explicitly prohibited. i.e. Government doesn't grant rights, it takes them away.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard a gun guy say something like "Well show me in the law where it says XYZ is legal". I could take us out for a pizza in the North End.

Don

Don, hell, we could buy those $15 pizzas from Quattro for every member of the board that had more than 1000 posts if I had a dollar for every time I heard that crap!

-Mike

 

[soloman02]

That is the problem. They don't seem to understand that our legal system based on English Common Law assumes everything is legal unless it is explicitly prohibited. i.e. Government doesn't grant rights, it takes them away.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard a gun guy say something like "Well show me in the law where it says XYZ is legal". I could take us out for a pizza in the North End.

Don

That's because they don't teach anything about common law in schools anymore. Until I became more politically inclined several years ago now, I had no idea that "common law" actually existed let alone what it is about.

 

[dcmdon]

Good point Soloman. I only was aware of it because my father would bring it up constantly.

By the way, they also don't teach any "classical liberal" philosophy by people like John Locke anymore.

I'd bet its considered to be too "Eurocentric".

Even some Henry David Thoreau would be nice. Shoot. The stuff is all free to download because the copyright has run out.

 

[soloman02]

Good point Soloman. I only was aware of it because my father would bring it up constantly.

By the way, they also don't teach any "classical liberal" philosophy by people like John Locke anymore.

I'd bet its considered to be too "Eurocentric".

Even some Henry David Thoreau would be nice. Shoot. The stuff is all free to download because the copyright has run out.

I don't recall Locke being mentioned. But I had a liberal teacher for US History 1. However, we did talk about Thoreau at least. The teacher was a definite hippie. He played Pink Floyd on a vinyl record player during the final . Even though he was politically left, he did accept opposing views and you were not docked for that and he didn't try and force his view directly on students. It was more subtle based upon the textbook and handouts. I had a conservative for US history II.

 

[bigblue]

I don't recall Locke being mentioned. But I had a liberal teacher for US History 1. However, we did talk about Thoreau at least. The teacher was a definite hippie. He played Pink Floyd on a vinyl record player during the final . Even though he was politically left, he did accept opposing views and you were not docked for that and he didn't try and force his view directly on students. It was more subtle based upon the textbook and handouts. I had a conservative for US history II.

You want slant? I had to learn U.S. history in Canada! Everything was about the war of 1812 and the civil rights movement. Never mind getting corrected for spelling things "wrong", I didn't learn much more until college. After that its all what I learned from the media...

 

[dcmdon]

Soloman,

The term "classical liberal" is a historic term for someone who would now be considered to be a Libertairan.

Don

Classical Liberalism is a philosophy committed to the ideal of limited government and liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets. Classical liberalism developed in the nineteenth century in Western Europe, and the Americas.

 

[soloman02]

Soloman,

The term "classical liberal" is a historic term for someone who would now be considered to be a Libertairan.

Don

Classical Liberalism is a philosophy committed to the ideal of limited government and liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets. Classical liberalism developed in the nineteenth century in Western Europe, and the Americas.

Oh I know. I've called myself that before to confuse people