Shouldering AR pistol with brace, no longer legal per ATF?

[Kaldone]

Was originally mentioned in this thread But figured it deserved its own.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...ig-brace-as-shoulder-stock-without-nfa-stamp/

I'm guessing I'm holding of on my 300.Blackout Pistol I was going to start with next.

 

[soloman02]

Screw the ATF. Do what you want. Its not like they follow the law anyway.

 

[Jason m]

Screw the ATF. Do what you want. Its not like they follow the law anyway.

This or just change the laws when they see fit and make whats legal into illegal. They are the rule makers and rule changers, it sucks.
If only there was a document writing that's over 200 years old that explains simple every day rules and regulation that the common man can understand...............

Jason.

 

[browncoat]

Figured this was too good to last. Screw the ATF and their arbitrary tyranny.

 

[SJan]

I have a feeling a lot of AR pistols will be lost in trajic boating accidents

 

[shipwreck]

Oh yeah there's a ton of ways to enforce this too. Good grief Charlie Brown.

shipwreck - DTOM

 

[Davidk]

My pistol and brace is hosting a 10-inch 300blk upper with a suppressor that I use for home defense. So, if there is a shooting, they will enforce it that way.

I am going to bring this letter and the previous one that stated that shouldering a pistol brace would not turn the firearm into NFA firearm with me to SHOT and discuss it with the NFA rep at the ATF booth

 

[Terminator03]

My pistol and brace is hosting a 10-inch 300blk upper with a suppressor that I use for home defense. So, if there is a shooting, they will enforce it that way.

I am going to bring this letter and the previous one that stated that shouldering a pistol brace would not turn the firearm into NFA firearm with me to SHOT and discuss it with the NFA rep at the ATF booth

Sure, but how will they know "how" you held the gun during the encounter unless you tell them?

 

[Davidk]

Sure, but how will they know "how" you held the gun during the encounter unless you tell them?

True, but I am not taking any chances with a defense gun. May just SBR it anyways and keep my other as a pistol.

 

[Smokewagon]

Can he have his lower transferred as a "pistol" to save all the hassle since the letter talks about it as an "other"?

 

[alpha1]

My pistol and brace is hosting a 10-inch 300blk upper with a suppressor that I use for home defense. So, if there is a shooting, they will enforce it that way.

I am going to bring this letter and the previous one that stated that shouldering a pistol brace would not turn the firearm into NFA firearm with me to SHOT and discuss it with the NFA rep at the ATF booth

It's a waste of time unless you get something in writing, and thats not going to happen.

 

[sweed]

Mine is grandfathered in, kinda like your preban AR mags, lol. Seriously ridiculous.

 

[Golddiggie]

Mine is grandfathered in, kinda like your preban AR mags, lol. Seriously ridiculous.

+1

It was 100% legal when I bought it, so they can go bugger themselves.

 

[Bonesinium]

A tyrannical government bureaucracy making stuff out of thin air in an usurpation of authority they never even had in the first place? Totally unsurprising. Their authority comes (ironically I might add) from the barrel of a gun and not from law.

 

[chevyguyss350]

An idiot writes a letter to the ATF to verify that his lawfully purchased accessory is legal, despite the fact that he had evidence that it was. ATF makes a contradicting decision. Akins Accelerator, anyone? WHY would anyone feel the need to ask extra special permission?

 

[the_shootist]

As if anyone can understand if something is legal or illegal on any given day....the ambiguity is intentional by the ATF. Why would you send a letter to the ATF to ask them if something is STILL legal...that's like saying "are you sure I can own this legally, because I don't think I should"

 

[Quiet]

Memo written by same agent who declared a piece of string to be a machine gun.

 

[Smokewagon]

An idiot writes a letter to the ATF to verify that his lawfully purchased accessory is legal, despite the fact that he had evidence that it was. ATF makes a contradicting decision. Akins Accelerator, anyone? WHY would anyone feel the need to ask extra special permission?

As if anyone can understand if something is legal or illegal on any given day....the ambiguity is intentional by the ATF. Why would you send a letter to the ATF to ask them if something is STILL legal...that's like saying "are you sure I can own this legally, because I don't think I should"

Seriously. The guy who sent this letter in basically saying "I know you already said it was legal but are you really really for seriously sure?" should be nut stomped.

- - - Updated - - -

Memo written by same agent who declared a piece of string to be a machine gun.

Maybe I should send in a letter about my cooking twine? Maybe they will say it's cool now? Or offer to send me a stamp for a hundred yards of it?

 

[Quiet]

Maybe I should send in a letter about my cooking twine? Maybe they will say it's cool now? Or offer to send me a stamp for a hundred yards of it?

Funny you should say that!

They (the (B)ATF(E)) rescinded the decision and (apparently) temporarily reassigned the agent to the FDA, who promptly decided that an AR-15 was a chicken.

 

[NHCraigT]

THE LATEST OBSERVATION = 12/27/14 - http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/12/foghorn/calm-pistol-brace-ruling-hasnt-changed/

......the ATF isn’t “reversing their decision.” The letter makes perfect sense, and it’s fully consistent with past communications. Here’s why . . .



....Robert’s article said that the ATF has “reversed” itself, and that’s not really true. This latest ruling is 100% consistent and in-line with everything else that has come before it. The entire reason we have the pistol brace and can use it in the manner to which we are accustomed is this idea of intent, and so long as the intent is to build a pistol when installing the brace there is no problem.

The moral of the story, once again, is that intent matters when “manufacturing” your firearm (which, in NFA speak, means assembling or altering the gun ). If you intend to make a SB-15-based pistol as a pistol, you are in the clear. But if you telegraph your intention to make an SBR by informing the ATF in writing that you plan to build it and not file any paperwork, expect the ATF to object no matter what parts you use.

In short, this guy basically sent a love note to the ATF letting them know that he was about to build an unregistered SBR.

As long as you intend to make a pistol and don’t go sending superfluous letters, you should be just fine.....

(Read the link, there is more pertinent & good info. mentioned in it)

 

[Kevin_NH]

TL;DR The letter writer ****ed himself, but not the rest of us. Sucks to be him.

 

[NHCraigT]

"SB15 - Did the BATF change its mind?":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYx3A80aBi0


(Short answer from the video is "No", the letter writer was an idiot and BATF's answer addresses "his" personal project-related = stupid question)

 

[massBRS]

lolz. f that guy.

 

[sweed]

About the vertical foregrip: I think I read somewhere that if your AR pistol is longer than 26" you can put on a vertical foregrip, and anything less than the 26" would be considered AOW if you install a vertical foregrip.

 

[Erichkruger]

Basically it is the guy asking 'Can i circumvent your regulations by using the brace?' Of course the ATF can't say 'sure go ahead'

 

[browncoat]

Basically it is the guy asking 'Can i circumvent your regulations by using the brace?' Of course the ATF can't say 'sure go ahead'

Yeah, he certainly shouldn't have asked his question the way he did.

 

[Tracer1951]

Writing a letter to the ATF asking their opinion on something???? ..... stupid is as stupid does!

 

[Quiet]

Is there a weight limit concern in MA for the brace being added? I have no idea what these things weigh.

 

[browncoat]

Is there a weight limit concern in MA for the brace being added? I have no idea what these things weigh.

Nope. The shoulder brace is an accessory that is not permanently affixed to the pistol. When you are looking at the weight of the pistol for legal purposes, it is the weight without any accessories (at least following Federal standards), so you would weigh without scope, without mags, without brace.

 

[dcmdon]

The problem with an AR pistol in MA is that any pistol that weighs more than 50 oz runs afoul of the AWB.

The problem is compounded by the fact that once a firearm is a rifle, it can never become a pistol. So all those pre-ban guns can't be used to get around the AWB, since 99.9% of the pre-ban lowers started life as rifles.

Don