Shooting vs Training

[Optimistic Paranoid]

In response to a question over in the General Discussion forum on S&W Airweights, Lynne posted the following:

I've shot the airweights and a titanium - they aren't for me. Reason being, I practice with my carry gun. The airweights are fine as far as not being heavy to carry, but holy crap, put a couple boxes thru them for practice and my hands would go on strike. Less weight = more recoil and kick back.

FWIW

I've been considering buying one of the ultra light scandium snubs.

On every forum where they get discussed, it's the same story:

They're so unpleasant to shoot, you won't practice with them enough.

But a number of good trainers write that most of your practice should be dry firing, and you only need to send enough lead down range to "validate your dry firing".

Moreover, in his great book, NO SECOND PLACE WINNER, Bill Jordan devoted an entire chapter to describing how to make primer powered wax bullet loads, of which he apparently fired many tens of thousands as he built his skill up to the incredible level he became famous for. (I think there are modern, reusable rubber bullets to serve that purpose today.)

There is also, of course, the BEAMHIT laser system.

So I'm wondering just how important the "shooting comfort factor" on a serious defense gun really is. Is there really a problem with "It's TOO light, you won't practice with it enough"?

Regards
John

 

[M1911]

Is there really a problem with "It's TOO light, you won't practice with it enough"?

Only you can give the answer to that.

Different people have different tolerances for recoil. The same gun will fit differently in different people's hands. When I shoot the 642, even with relatively mild loads, the trigger guard smacks my trigger finger. It hurts. A lot. As a result, I hardly ever shoot it. Given that it has a long, hard trigger pull and a non-existent rear sight, it's a hard gun to shoot accurately.

The result? I can't hit beans with my 642.

The 642 is 15 oz. The scandium snubs are 11 or 12 oz. You would be paying at least a couple hundred bucks more to save 3-4 oz. and increase the recoil of a gun that is already unpleasant to shoot. Why? I don't get it.

As for rubber bullets -- have you gone looking to buy some? Do you reload?

Have you priced out a beamhit laser system lately?

Lots of folks here have a 642 or something similar. Before you spend $600 on a scandium airweight, I strongly suggest that you meet up with one of the folks here and try their 642.

 

[Lynne]

Since all my hand surgeries, I can't take shooting a gun that hurts (or is uncomfortable) too much. Ergo, I probably would not shoot it alot. Since I'm a firm believer in PRACTICE, if I can't shoot it alot, I won't carry it. Thankfully, I have enough guns that I shoot well and am comfie with to choose from.

 

[KMaurer]

I'm a big fan of lots of dry firing. I also practice mostly with the lightest loads that will cycle my gun reliably, with a few of my carry loads mixed in at random (think ball and dummy drills in reverse). If I know from experience how my carry loads group and where they impact relative to my practice loads, then there's no problem.

Ken

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Is there really a problem with "It's TOO light, you won't practice with it enough"?

Only you can give the answer to that.

Different people have different tolerances for recoil. The same gun will fit differently in different people's hands. When I shoot the 642, even with relatively mild loads, the trigger guard smacks my trigger finger. It hurts. A lot. As a result, I hardly ever shoot it. Given that it has a long, hard trigger pull and a non-existent rear sight, it's a hard gun to shoot accurately.

The result? I can't hit beans with my 642.

The 642 is 15 oz. The scandium snubs are 11 or 12 oz. You would be paying at least a couple hundred bucks more to save 3-4 oz. and increase the recoil of a gun that is already unpleasant to shoot. Why? I don't get it.

Actually, the weight ISN'T the issue here.

For various reasons, I've decided that I need a light hammerless (Centenial style) snub rated for at least +P AND - because I have eye "issues" - I NEED the HiViz front sight.

I just can't see regular snub sights worth a damn. The HiViz, for MY eyes, works VERY well.

A careful check of the S&W web site - the Taurus one, too - seems to show that the ultra-light 340PD is, as the old joke about the rigged poker game goes, The Only Game In Town.

Thus my interest in the theory that a lot of dry firing and only a little live firing is adequate for keeping skills at a high level.

As for rubber bullets -- have you gone looking to buy some? Do you reload?

I actually have some from the old days. Dillon used to sell them, and I used to occasionally plink in my basement with them.

I do have a full reloading setup, but you really don't need much for the rubber bullets - just a way to knock the old primers out, and a way to seat the new ones.

Have you priced out a beamhit laser system lately?

Not lately, but I know they're a few hundred dollars.

Lots of folks here have a 642 or something similar. Before you spend $600 on a scandium airweight, I strongly suggest that you meet up with one of the folks here and try their 642.

Thanks. I will almost surely take a drive over to Springfield and rent one of the 340PDs with the HiViz before I lay out the actual money to buy one. I've already tried plenty of snubs with "regular" front sights and for me, they just don't cut it.

Regards
John

 

[M1911]

My eyes aren't great either. I just paint the front sight with dayglo paint.

 

[K-DUB]

I have the 340PD with Hi-Viz sights. It is relatively short $$ upgrade for the sights, & it helps especially with a small gun. I found the 38spl +p is easy to control. I fired a few shots of .357 with it just to see what it felt like, but I probably won't do that again.

 

[Chuck]

I don't think it's off-topic to mention I am trading down to a 9mm subcompact Glock instead of the 40S&W I own now because I do practice with what I carry. But not enough to control the 40. Just can't get a decent double tap. And that's when I'm trying at the range. If I had to in the world? I assume the worst and that my first shot is going to be unaimed and reflex in nature. I'd rather something heavier or lower powered so I'm faster with the next one. My $0.02.

cheers,
Chuck