Sen. Feinstein introduces bill to raise rifle purchasing age to 21

[Whutmeworry]

How about national concealed carry reciprocity in return? I could live w that. Agree also w ammo purchases at 18 and provisions for emancipated minors and other edge cases. Active duty military personnel don’t always live on base or may have other reasons - an 18 year old who does a two year stint shouldn’t have to wait until 21. Maybe make the exemption for active duty military and honorably charged vets? Perhaps National Guard too. How some form of licensing or permitting for under 21? I do have an issue w any 18 year old being able to buy any gun just because th3y can pass the background check. This says more about what I think about the legal system and the average 18-21 year old than it does gun ownership.

Totally disagree, unless of course the entire age of adulthood is raised as well i.e.: Must be 21 to vote, get married, own property, etc.

 

[amm5061]

Exactly. Not only should we NOT be willing to compromise, we should be pushing HARD in the other direction.

This shooting was yet another Prog failure, and we need to communicate that fact.

This so hard. We need to repeal the gun free zones act. Allow teachers to concealed carry if they want to. Provide them free or subsidized training for active shooter events. This is the only way to proactively prevent this kind of stupid shit from happening.

 

[Buck F]

Totally disagree, unless of course the entire age of adulthood is raised as well i.e.: Must be 21 to vote, get married, own property, etc.

There are already restrictions on some things until 21 vs. 18 and the country hasn’t fallen apart; I don’t see any reason why there can’t be different ages for different things but fine, if it has to be all or nothing then make it all 21.

 

[dhuze]

How about they just not infringe! Period!

No permits.
No age limits. If you mature enough for your parents to let you own a firearm. So be it!
No limits on ammo purchases.
No storage requirements.
No carry requirements.

No govt. infringing anymore on our right to keep and bear arms!

How would all this go over if it was the 1rst amendment and our freedom of speech?

I drew my line after 7/20.

Eight more years in MA and I'm free of this sick liberal utopia that was once the birth place of liberty!

Now you're just being reasonable. Knock it off.

 

[wiryone1]

There are already restrictions on some things until 21 vs. 18 and the country hasn’t fallen apart; I don’t see any reason why there can’t be different ages for different things but fine, if it has to be all or nothing then make it all 21.

Disagree. You are either an adult, or you are not. Personally I don't think that there should any age restrictions on anything. Legally, 18 and you 100% own all of your personal actions. Before 18 your parent would also be legally responsible. If a parent understands that their child is ready to own a gun, then they should be allowed to co-sign a 4473 and are also responsible for criminal actions with that gun until the child turns 18.

 

[Climbnsink]

The only thing that makes sense for gun owners supporting this 21 year old BS is extreme fuddism or jealousy. Yes it is possible that some pimple faced 19 year old has a more tacticool AR than you. Deal with it.

 

[Coyote33]

I think it should be 18 for everything, with "learner's permit" at 16. If a kid is 14 and wants to hunt or drive, they do it with their parent under his or her license.

 

[dhuze]

I love how people here are NOW willing to Infringe on the 2nd Amendment when it doesn't affect them. I see lots of FUDD hating FUDDS in this post. If you walk like a FUDD and talk like a FUDD, Guess what, You're a FUDD.

I am not willing to allow ANY infringement on the 2nd Amendment, I don't give a rats ass who it is.

First off, it is not illegal for 18 year olds to own handguns, only purchase them. Tell me how that's stopping anything. These laws only prevent law abiding citizens from buying certain firearms. Not criminals.

 

[Kevin_NH]

I'm going to wait to see how truly horrible DiFi's proposed legislation is before I put any actual energy into opposing it.

 

[amm5061]

I'm going to wait to see how truly horrible DiFi's proposed legislation is before I put any actual energy into opposing it.

It's from Feinstein. Any garbage she spews should be opposed simply because it's her proposing it.

 

[Spanz]

first let's make sure that people vote at 21 with the same documents and background checks ... then no

I agree, if they can not purchase a rifle...then they are not competent to vote in our elections too.

 

[Kevin_NH]

put some energy into it now and they might not be a proposal to oppose.......

She's going to file the bill no matter what anybody says, and the usual (D) suspects will sign on as co-sponsors. It's not like gun owners can hate her any more than they already do.

 

[radioman]

You know this is going to happen in MA.
Then they’ll brag how MA is the first state
to have the law.

 

[amm5061]

You know this is going to happen in MA.
Then they’ll brag how MA is the first state
to have the law.

Isn't it a moot point in MA? I mean, Maura already outlawed these nasty super killy assault guns.

 

[oldguy68]

Ok, you fudds.
Here you go.
A 17 year old can own and drive a vehicle weighing 3000 pounds or more.
They can text and drive drunk when no laws could actually stop them.
As well as they are the most prone age group for accidents and motor vehicle deaths...

Then look at how many illegal drivers there out on our roads..

The best part is driving isn't a right guaranteed by the US constitution..

And here you are ready to give up yours and everyone's right to feel a little bit safer!!

 

[Matt2109]

Frankly I think the drinking age should be lowered to 16 or less so that kids can learn to drink and lose the novelty of it before they are handling 4,000lb vehicles.

Interesting point..... And I think I agree.

At the very least the "age of adulthood" things should really be thought out. Voting, Cigarettes, drinking, driving, smoking pot, signing up to die for ones country, getting married, making babies......

this stuff should be synced up

 

[Buck F]

Ok, you fudds.
Here you go.
A 17 year old can own and drive a vehicle weighing 3000 pounds or more.
They can text and drive drunk when no laws could actually stop them.
As well as they are the most prone age group for accidents and motor vehicle deaths...

Then look at how many illegal drivers there out on our roads..

The best part is driving isn't a right guaranteed by the US constitution..

And here you are ready to give up yours and everyone's right to feel a little bit safer!!

How is increasing the age to 21 giving up ours and everyone’s rights? It’s giving up the rights of 18-21 year olds for sure but it sure isn’t giving up anyone else’s.

 

[Buck F]

First off, it is not illegal for 18 year olds to own handguns, only purchase them. Tell me how that's stopping anything. These laws only prevent law abiding citizens from buying certain firearms. Not criminals.

I have no issue w 18 year olds owning guns their parents give them, I’m not sure I agree that any 18 year old should be able to go out and buy a gun just because they pass the background check. How is it stopping anything? Do you think this Shooters parent/guardians would have bought him a rifle?

 

[oldguy68]

Buckfarack, you just suggested giving up the 2nd amendment rights of every American that is age 18 to 21.

Seriously, do you even own a firearm?

Elite much?

Please look up the word infringe and get back to everyone here!

We can be drafted at age 18 and then be handed an automatic rifle and possibly be killed in a war.
But god forbid you own a personal firearm at that same age...

Please tell me your trolling here.

We live in a free country.

With that freedom comes risk.

With said risk comes a free life that many have fought and died to preserve.

If you think it's ok for a parent to buy a firearm for a person 18 to 21 years old and somehow think that everyone would be less safe than if their son or daughter had purchased it themselves.
You must have never heard about the Sandy Hook Elementary School murders.

Sorry, but how easily a word like infringed can be twisted by a tyrant!

No mean, NO!

 

[Buck F]

Buckfarack, you just suggested giving up the 2nd amendment rights of every American that is age 18 to 21.

Seriously, do you even own a firearm?

Elite much?

Please look up the word infringe and get back to everyone here!

We can be drafted at age 18 and killed in a war but god forbid you own a personal firearm at that same age...

Please tell me your trolling here.

We live in a free country.

With that freedom comes risk.

With said risk comes a free life that many have fought and died to preserve.

If you think it's ok for a parent to buy a firearm for a person 18 to 21 years old and somehow think that everyone would be safer if their son or daughter purchased it themselves.
You must have never heard about the Sandy Hook Elementary School murders.

Sorry, but how easily a word like infringed can be twisted by a tyrant!

No mean, NO!

I own several firearms, including AR15s. What about everyone 0-18 who’s rights are being infringed then? What part of infringed covers them? I stated earlier that military personnel should be exempt. You live in MA Old Guy so you jumped through the same hoops everyone else did and kissed the police chief’s ass to get your license, you abide by the same ammo purchase restrictions, mag limits and gun limits you said no way to in your earlier post. Have you ever bought a firearm from an FFL and submitted to a background check? Why don’t you go and look up the word infringed and report to everyone here how you have valiantly refused to have your rights infringed upon.

 

[Individualist]

I would like to have a Bill introduced that requires all members of Congress to have IQ's over 21. Better than term limits.

 

[oldguy68]

I have lived in MA most of my adult life.
What I had to go through to purchase firearms here and the state and federal laws that violate my rights are beside the point.

I am not the one suggesting we strip away anyone else's rights because you think they should be in the military or be 21 years old to exercise a right of the people that is guaranteed by our constitution!
Your thinking is right up there with those that think only the military and police should be allowed to own firearms...

Sorry, but I want everyone to have the same rights as everyone else and no favorites for anyone!
The constitution and the bill of rights was written for all of the people. Not a select group of people!

A parent would have their own say as to when their son or daughter is old enough to have his or her own firearm. They would decide and not the government as to what age is appropriate.

I also believe anyone not in prison is a free man and should be allowed to own firearms.
A felon set free is a free man and should have such rights back.

See I realize that bad people do bad things and only good people would stop them!

I don't blame objects for harming anyone.

The world is an unsafe place and I'm ok with that.
Because to think banning or prohibiting something is going to make me feel safer would be a fantasy world I wouldn't want to live in!

 

[dhuze]

I have no issue w 18 year olds owning guns their parents give them, I’m not sure I agree that any 18 year old should be able to go out and buy a gun just because they pass the background check. How is it stopping anything? Do you think this Shooters parent/guardians would have bought him a rifle?

So you're saying if someone can pass a background check they should still be restricted because why? But it's ok for their parents to give them guns? That's pretty much contradictory. It's ok for them to vote and fight for this country, but not buy firearms that are less than what they can carry in the military.

And I do not know one single thing about the kid so how would I know if his parents would have bought him a rifle?

What law would have stopped ANY of these mass shooters? Go ahead, list one existing law that would have prevented it. The FBI investigated this kid and found nothing. You will never know someones intentions unless they tell you outright.

The a**h*** who shot up Newtown was only 16 and didn't buy the guns he used. He STOLE them, killed his mother and shot up the school.

 

[endus]

My standard disclaimer: I'm not talking about what I want, I'm talking about politics and what is likely to happen. Saying "I vote libertarian" used to mean a lot more before Weld but, for what it's worth, I haven't been voting for dudes who were pro-assault weapons ban in 2000 and are now against it because its politically expedient.

I'm wondering what the best strategy is here. This seems to be gathering a bit more momentum than we've seen in the past. Totally possible that it will peter out, but the flip side is...I don't think the school shooting genie is going back in the bottle. Eventually it's going to get to the point where our society always gets to where "something" has to be done. We're stuck on logic and effectiveness because we're firearms enthusiasts, but when was the last time the government did anything that made logical sense and was effective? These are illusory requirements for making policy. They have no bearing on what will actually happen.

The forcing of the republicans hands seems like it's coming. If there was any chance of them doing something meaningful (read: visible) on mental health that might be well received, but we all know that's definitely not going to happen. It's going to leave the door open for pressure on actual firearms regulations.

The whole no rifles until 21 thing is ludicrous for numerous reasons, the fact that we have 18 year olds in the military being the most glaring reason for me. It would be f***ing hilarious and interesting to see republicans take that and go for no taxes or voting til 21. Again, not condoning this in the slightest, removing people's rights isn't how I roll, but it would be funny to see the democrats scramble if the republicans came at them with this and, "it will help with the massive student loan issues our young people are facing".

The thing I wonder about the most is whether absolutism is the best strategy to preserve civilian access to standard infantry rifles (well, almost standard). It seems like there is a lot of pressure building on AWBs and the question may be whether we think AWB will stand up in court and completely f*** us, or whether some kind of enhanced licensing deal (NFA style) is the only way we're going to hang on to our property and preserve access to that kind of capability for civilians in the future.

The problem with all this, like everything, is money. Our politicians don't give a f*** about our rights. I'm sure if the republicans had their way we would all be completely disarmed and impotent against their militarized law enforcement and mass surveillance. It's money that's keeping them loyal and if the incentives start going the other way they will flip for sure.

 

[Buck F]

So you're saying if someone can pass a background check they should still be restricted because why? But it's ok for their parents to give them guns? That's pretty much contradictory. It's ok for them to vote and fight for this country, but not buy firearms that are less than what they can carry in the military.

And I do not know one single thing about the kid so how would I know if his parents would have bought him a rifle?

What law would have stopped ANY of these mass shooters? Go ahead, list one existing law that would have prevented it. The FBI investigated this kid and found nothing. You will never know someones intentions unless they tell you outright.

The a**h*** who shot up Newtown was only 16 and didn't buy the guns he used. He STOLE them, killed his mother and shot up the school.

A 14 year old can pass the background check, should they be able to buy guns? We have varying age limits for a lot of things including the current 18 year old age limit so it's not like access is unlimited now, we're simply talking about a matter of degrees. There's a difference between parents giving a kid a gun and a kid with no experience or training showing up on his 18th birthday to buy a gun. Yes, I know Lanza stole his mother's guns but that's the exception rather than the rule. You can't stop all of these shootings but in this case, everyone knew the kid was deranged and I doubt his parents/guardians would have bought him a gun and clearly this kid had no business buying a gun. Kids today don't know which bathroom to use and eat Tide pods, holding off them buying guns without adult supervision isn't the end of the world.

I agree there seems to be a lot of pressure building on "AW" Bans. You can scream into the wind all you want about how ridiculous an AWB is and I'd agree with you wholeheartedly but at the end of the day if more people vote their way than our way it could happen again, look at what has happened in MA & CA already, where has being on the right side of the argument gotten us?

 

[Buck F]

My standard disclaimer: I'm not talking about what I want, I'm talking about politics and what is likely to happen.

The thing I wonder about the most is whether absolutism is the best strategy to preserve civilian access to standard infantry rifles (well, almost standard).

Excellent, excellent post. What gets me are the Molon Labe absolutists, particularly those here in the Commonwealth, going on about how they're not going to put up with this or that. One poster proposed trading National Carry Reciprocity for universal background checks or raising the age to 21; I'd throw the under 21s under the bus in a second for reciprocity - they can carry anywhere they want at 21. We don't have National Carry Reciprocity now despite it being a complete no-brainer and we're not likely to every get it other than buy SCOTUS decision and who knows if that'll ever happen. They have banned ARs before, they can do it again as absurd and ineffective as it is. But absolutism and ignoring the realities has gotten us where? We (many of us) live in a State where you can't buy an AR15 and need a license to buy freaking ammo. Conceptually I agree with if you can serve in the military you should be able to do buy a gun but right now you can serve in the military and not drink. It would be easy to carve out an exception for under 21 military members to buy a gun.

 

[SpaceCritter]

I agree there seems to be a lot of pressure building on "AW" Bans. You can scream into the wind all you want about how ridiculous an AWB is and I'd agree with you wholeheartedly but at the end of the day if more people vote their way than our way it could happen again, look at what has happened in MA & CA already, where has being on the right side of the argument gotten us?

Thing is, none of this is occurring in a vacuum. In addition to this thread, there are threads about how Classical music is racist, etc., and it's becoming increasingly apparent to an increasing number of people in the country at large - that is to say NOT Massatwoshits - that there's a war on against them and their culture. And they're getting pissed. Honestly, I believe the only solution would be a partition of the United States, similar to that of the Indian subcontinent, but based on culture and ideology rather than religion. And even though I don't think it would get as ugly as India's, nor do I think it'll be pretty.

As for the singular issue of school shootings: don't think for a moment they'll thoughtfully consider ACTUAL solutions ("remedies" might be a better description), since, truth be told, they WANT the shootings to continue, as it furthers their agenda.

 

[jhblaze1]

Whittle any at the 2A. That c*** has picked at it forever. She should be tossed out on her ass. I hope one day she needs to be saved by a firearm and there isn’t one available.

this is my sincere hope for all anti gunners.

 

[dhuze]

A 14 year old can pass the background check, should they be able to buy guns? We have varying age limits for a lot of things including the current 18 year old age limit so it's not like access is unlimited now, we're simply talking about a matter of degrees. There's a difference between parents giving a kid a gun and a kid with no experience or training showing up on his 18th birthday to buy a gun...............

So exactly what age do you need to be before you are protected by the United States Constitution? Sometimes 18 unless someone decides otherwise?

 

[Buck F]

So exactly what age do you need to be before you are protected by the United States Constitution? Sometimes 18 unless someone decides otherwise?

There we go, absolutism at it's finest. It's currently 18, that make you feel better? Heck, OldGuy posted earlier that anyone who can bring cash and carry away a gun, regardless of age and previous criminal history, should be able to get a gun. Wait a minute, that's discriminating against people without cash! Why does should someone need cash to be protected by the US Constitution? We can go on all day with these absurd statements yet every single one of you voluntarily submits to a background check when buying a firearm.