Self defense sense... you are carrying and...

[stantony1]

Ok so I thought about these ending scenarios in a public incident. And please forgive any errors in logic. I am posting this to see what you folks think you would do OR what you HAVE done if you experienced this for real.

You are in a convenience store back of the store getting some of them new Twinkies. You bend down to pick up a dime you find and are hidden from view for a bit.

You get back up... You look up and at the front of the store, there is a robber with a gun and he is pointing it at the clerk and demanding money. The robber then notices you are back there.

Scenario 1: You stay still and hands up. The clerk gives the register cash to the robber and the robber leaves. I do not draw because no one is in danger of getting shot since the clerk complied.
Scenario 2: The robber shoots the clerk. I draw and fire because there is a high potential that he will turn to shoot me to get rid of witnesses.
Scenario 3: Fearing for my life, I draw and shoot, everyone but the robber is ok, he is now mortally wounded.

My problem is with #1 and #3.
Should I draw and warn him off and escalate the situation for #1
OR just shoot for situation #3?

Let me know your thoughts! Thank you.

 

[WallHack]

Hit the deck, draw, stay there, shoot if shot at.

 

[usp45ct]

Hit the deck, draw, stay there, shoot if shot at.

Logical a land sound advice to me...+1

 

[slap shot]

Didn't this just happen at a dollar store? perp was shot dead and all was well.

edit: I thought he meant scene

 

[MAGG]

suppose to be science or sense in your title?

 

[Martlet]

Logical a land sound advice to me...+1

Any sound advice that involves me getting shot at doesn't sound that logical or sound.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Shoot the hostage.

 

[Rider]

I really hate these threads. There are way too many variables to war game it, and too many local considerations. I have lived in places where shooting a person for being in your house was obvious self defense, and now I live in a place where farting on a guy who is raping your wife constitutes a hate crime. One of the things I mis most about living in Vegas was that if you were at home and killed a guy in your house(who wasn't supposed to be there) they assumed it was self defense.

Stop f****** around and resolve to do what you believe is necessary in a given situation and accept the consequences. And keep in mind that you own anyone you kill in any of these scenarios. By 'own', I mean that nice lady outside who just took a bullet in the head because your aim sucks and you're all jacked up on adrenaline.

 

[Deleted member 12999]

Grab a bag of chips. Press check. Make sure I have business socks on. Operate.

 

[stantony1]

Sorry, I mean SENSE. Don't know how to edit the title of the thread. Would a MOD please do that for me?

 

[PaulR]

Had this scenario in my LTC class. As above pretty much. I'd draw and prepare, but stay out of view. I definitely (or so I say) would not fire unless he pointed at me.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Scenario 3: Fearing for my life, I draw and shoot, everyone but the robber is ok, he is now mortally wounded.

You missed a couple:

Scenario 4: You play hero, but the clerk is shot by the robber before you connect. The prosecution, plaintiff's counsel, media and your conscience repeatedly hammer on the possibility that your meek submission would have resulted in a robbery without any shots fired.

Scenario 5: Concerned about Scenario #4, you meekly submit when the criminal yells "hands up". He proceeds to shoot you and then the clerk.

Scenario 6: Cowardly dive into display of heavily salted snack treats. (rep point for the first person who gets the reference without using Google)

 

[stantony1]

Also, I am really wondering what folks would really do. Hit the Deck, Draw, and Fire if Fired Upon makes the most sense right now. Thanks for the responses so far, it is very helpful.

 

[Boghog1]

Light up a Kool

 

[PaulR]

You don't want to play hero.

Only time I can think of that is if its you're kid brother working the store.

 

[W.E.C]

Shoot the dog.

or just walk up and do this.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=32sLgUoj91o&desktop_uri=/watch?v=32sLgUoj91o

 

[knoxy]

Shoulda brought your whistle.

 

[kalash]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/02/storeowner_clea.html

Storeowner cleared in fatal Worcester shooting

The owner of a Worcester liquor store was acting in self-defense when he shot to death a man who attempted to rob the store at gunpoint in December, prosecutors said today.

"A thorough review of the investigation and evidence has revealed that the store owner acted in self defense and in the defense of another," Worcester District Attorney Joseph D. Early Jr. said in a statement. "He and his brother were put in fear for their lives."

Two men wearing masks entered Big Bob's Liquors on Richmond Avenue at about 10 p.m. on Dec. 10. At least one of the men brandished a handgun.

Robert "Big Bob" Varderesian was sitting behind the counter, while his brother, Kevin, counted cash from the register.

The gunman pressed a gun to Kevin Varderesian's head and told him to hand over the cash. Robert Varderesian pulled his gun from his waistband and shot the gunman. The gunman's accomplice fled the store on foot, prosecutors said.

Evan L. Rivera, 40, of Worcester died later that night of multiple gunshot wounds at the University Massachusetts Medical Center on Lake Avenue. The other would-be robber is still at large.

The killing rattled shopkeepers in the tight-knit neighborhood where it occurred, midway between Newton and Tatnuck squares. Many of the business owners were immigrants, who said the area was safe, and they could not recall any armed robberies in many years, the Globe reported in December.

 

[crazymjb]

Situations are, well, situational. I don't carry a gun to play cop. That said, I personally would not standby and watch someone else get killed if I had a capacity to do something about it, just not how I role. I don't judge those who do... well I do actually, but that's another topic.

So I'd see how it was playing out. If I believed at the time that the cashier was likely to be killed I'd probably intervene in some manner or another. If it seemed a pretty clear case of give me the money and I'm out I'd probably just let it play out. Honestly can't say without being there, and hope I'm never put in that position.

Mike

 

[Rider]

Also, I am really wondering what folks would really do. Hit the Deck, Draw, and Fire if Fired Upon makes the most sense right now. Thanks for the responses so far, it is very helpful.

You're being ridiculous. Even if I could tell you what I would do with absolute certainty, doing so would be stupid. However, previous statements apply. Situations evolve in real time and whether you should shoot depends on too many things.

If you are trying to figure out when and whether its okay to shoot, you need to find a better way of communicating that otherwise, have fun with your mental masturbation.

 

[AlwaysBeClosing]

1) re-duck, draw, wait
2) open/eat twinkie
2) dime in pocket
3) ????
4) profit

 

[ChevyGuy91]

The more I think about these fantasies, I would smoke everyone in the store, just to be safe.

 

[Precision Point Firearms]

Please tell me we are bringing back Tactical Tuesday Scenarios. Where is ItsPreBanLOL when we need him most.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Please tell me we are bringing back Tactical Tuesday Scenarios

Oh please yes.

Tactical Imagination Tuesday Scenarios!

 

[drgrant]

I carry around bluetooth speakers with me... so while the thief is distracted, I would place this on the display playing this song at maximum volume.



As soon as the would be armed robber hears it he will go "WHAT THE **** IS THAT??? MAKE IT STOP!!!!" and as he is distracted by the source of the sound,, I will then execute a commando roll to the right behind an end display of twinkies while simultaneously drawing my Glock carried IWB, culminated by bouncing up at the end into a spring jump thing, taking aim and delivering a perfectly timed Mozambique drill into the BG while he is mesmerized by the effects of french rap music.

-Mike

 

[soam]

You missed a couple:

Scenario 4: You play hero, but the criminal is shot by the robber before you connect. The prosecution, plaintiff's counsel, media and your conscience repeatedly hammer on the possibility that your meek submission would have resulted in a robbery without any shots fired.

Scenario 5: Concerned about Scenario #4, you meekly submit when the criminal yells "hands up". He proceeds to shoot you and then the clerk.

Scenario 6: Cowardly dive into display of heavily salted snack treats. (rep point for the first person who gets the reference without using Google)

"Was that you diving into the display of heavily salted snack treats, Mr. Simpson?" (or something like that)

 

[stantony1]

Thanks everyone! One of the goals here was to determine self defense. Is it just yourself or the defense of other innocents. From most of the feedback, it's yourself and let the fate determine the clerk's life.

 

[WWII_Collector]

Shelter in place?

 

[dyer01905]

Throw your chips at the robber and scream "FOOD FIGHT" in hopes to de-escalate the situation. /Sarc

 

[MMArtist]

So an armed robber is pointing a gun at someone and your gonna lay on the ground? Why do you people carry?