Self defense question

[Preachers Sheets]

I have a question, it may sound odd. The MA laws on self defense are so screwed up I wish there was a class on it or something.....the rules, in's, out's and whats allowed and what isnt.

Say for example someone broke into my house and was raping my fiance but did NOT have a weapon; would I be in trouble if I used a firearm to disable them (and whether they are facing me or not)?

It's weird because they say bodily harm but suppose the intent of the person was not to kill but just to rape and they didnt have a weapon? It would be very hard to watch your fiance/wife get raped and not have the legal backing to use a firearm.

I dont know why this came to mind, sometimes I wonder if you use your weapon at all your just plain screwed.

 

[jhblaze1]

Deadly force is justified in stopping a rape

 

[The Goose]

I have a question, it may sound odd. The MA laws on self defense are so screwed up I wish there was a class on it or something.....the rules, in's, out's and whats allowed and what isnt..

There is a great class. Go to the GOAL website! www.goal.org

 

[Preachers Sheets]

Awesome, I'll check that class out.

 

[theGringo]

Rule 1: When shooting your fiance's rapist, take careful aim so as to avoid scoring a two-fer.

Rule 2: In the case of your fiance's lover, disregard Rule 1.

 

[Preachers Sheets]

Rule 2: In the case of your fiance's lover, disregard Rule 1.

hahaha more like "use the spare time to pack her bags"

 

[Turbocharged]

MA has what's called the "Castle Doctrine".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_My_Day_Law
(I know, "omg, he sited lierpedia!" the deffinition is correct)
So basicly, if your home is broken into by someone who clearly is hostile, you have the right to use deadly force.
IANAL

 

[Danrk6]

A while back when I took my NRA certified safety course at the Smith and Wesson Academy the teacher told me one very important thing off the record (so I will not name names). He is an ex LEO with if I remember right, over 20 years experience on the force. What he told me was "if you ever feel that you, a friend, or a family member are ever in a situation that you believe to be life threatening ALWAYS pull the trigger first and deal with the consequences later". I have always used this as a general guideline if I were to unfortunately find myself in a situation such as what you describe. It makes a lot of sense, in the long run would you rather live with the fact that a stranger took advantage of your family (or even worse) when you could have done something about it, or spend a little time in court explaining your actions?

 

[45collector]

You know why this came to mind...

Because you have the presence of mind to realize that we don't live in a fairy tale land where everything is peaches and cream cheese.

Your question will no doubt raise many a post on this subject. What it comes down is this:

If you were to shoot someone who were in the act of raping a loved one...

I would hope than any decent human being serving as the jury would favor you.

Unfortunately, there seems to be less and less decent human beings present as time rolls on.

Am I wrong?

 

[Danrk6]

So basicly, if your home is broken into by someone who clearly is hostile, you have the right to use deadly force.
IANAL

Your home is the only place where you are not legally obligated to make an effort to flee and avoid confrontation. Anywhere else you are obligated by law to attempt to diffuse the situation, usually by running away (which can be quite frustrating).

 

[catamount]

If your fiance/wife was getting raped would it really matter what the law was at that point?!?!

 

[Preachers Sheets]

45 collector

No your right; I dont rely on people to put the effort in to help me if I am in such a situation nor do I expect them to save me in a time of need Hence one of the reasons for the firearm. I DO however expect them to put the effort and time into telling me I was wrong and making a statment of me in court even if I truly feel I was right to use deadly force just because of the gun stigma we face in MA.

I do however expect them to be narrow minded and tell me I was

 

[Preachers Sheets]

If your fiance/wife was getting raped would it really matter what the law was at that point?!?!

No it would not but being able to think about it with a clear mind (not while it is happening) gives me the benefit of wondering what would happen.

If I am mobile and my fiance/wife is being raped; I would not want to be the other guy. People taking advantage of women and children (in any form) upset me even more so than the common person.

 

[CRSIII]

You could always use one of these;

less than lethel, and against an unarmed attacker in your home, well lets just say ''sux to be him''.

 

[terraformer]

Your home is the only place where you are not legally obligated to make an effort to flee and avoid confrontation. Anywhere else you are obligated by law to attempt to diffuse the situation, usually by running away (which can be quite frustrating).

Try proving you tried to run away too...

 

[glide]

Your home is the only place where you are not legally obligated to make an effort to flee and avoid confrontation. Anywhere else you are obligated by law to attempt to diffuse the situation, usually by running away (which can be quite frustrating).

And count on being arrested at the very least. That poor defenseless 'yout' who was raping your wife, stealing your possessions, and planning on murdering you when you got back home was simply misguided and did not deserve what you did to him.

 

[Danrk6]

And count on being arrested at the very least. That poor defenseless 'yout' who was raping your wife, stealing your possessions, and planning on murdering you when you got back home was simply misguided and did not deserve what you did to him.

It is a disturbing thought, but probably not far off from the truth

 

[GSG]

Say for example someone broke into my house and was raping my fiance but did NOT have a weapon; would I be in trouble if I used a firearm to disable them (and whether they are facing me or not)?

Don't ever use a firearm to "disable." It's only purpose is lethal force.

Rule 1: When shooting your fiance's rapist, take careful aim so as to avoid scoring a two-fer.

Rule 2: In the case of your fiance's lover, disregard Rule 1.

Your home is the only place where you are not legally obligated to make an effort to flee and avoid confrontation. Anywhere else you are obligated by law to attempt to diffuse the situation, usually by running away (which can be quite frustrating).

In this state, but not in many others, thankfully.

 

[Mark from MA]

Don't ever use a firearm to "disable." It's only purpose is lethal force.







In this state, but not in many others, thankfully.

I disagree with disabling the first round would be right in the nuts to "disable" him, as far as the other 9 rounds...they'd end up somewhere near center mass I'm hoping. Sometimes you just get hopped up on adrenaline and empty the mag....you know...like Kurt Russel in Wyatt Earp.

 

[MasterShinken]

I've always used the guideline of you should only use force for situations you would be willing to either: Spend the rest of your life in jail for, Spend the rest of your life as a vegetable for, or die for, or a combination of such. It is a very personal decision, but regardless of what's gonna come of it, you will ultimately have to live with your decision. Is saving your loved one worth it, to me yes...

 

[Cross-X]

Awesome, I'll check that class out.

We call it The Art Of Concealed Carry.

 

[dagwag77]

I've always used the guideline of you should only use force for situations you would be willing to either: Spend the rest of your life in jail for, Spend the rest of your life as a vegetable for, or die for, or a combination of such. It is a very personal decision, but regardless of what's gonna come of it, you will ultimately have to live with your decision. Is saving your loved one worth it, to me yes...

+1, gun comes out ONLY in those 3 circumstances for me... not getting into other peoples shit, and only to protect me and mine.

 

[Junglerott]

I don't think being prepared to use deadly force if necessary and worrying about concequences go well together. I see it like this:
1)Decide if you trust yourself to make the right decision in a self defence/ family defense situation.
2)Accept the fact that you may go to prison for life for your actions no matter what laws are there to protect you.

We live in a state that wants us to fear what will happen if we defend ourselves. I was at first, but now I am not.

 

[MasterShinken]

2)Accept the fact that you may go to prison for life for your actions no matter what laws are there to protect you.

I agree, I do believe running scenarios in your head are an important part to any self defence training as it will get you mentaly prepaired for the decision you may have to make in the future. it will take a bit of the "oh s**t" time out of the equation as your brain has already dealt with the situation before, even though only thru simulation.
Which is worse, going home every day to an empty house your wife/child/important person was murdered at and you had the chance to stop, or spending a few years in prison with your loved ones still alive and bringing you cookies.

 

[M1911]

Say for example someone broke into my house and was raping my fiance but did NOT have a weapon; would I be in trouble if I used a firearm to disable them (and whether they are facing me or not)?

1) you really should educate yourself on the justifiable use of deadly force. I strongly suggest that you attend Ayoob's LFI-1. He covers this material in far greater detail than anyone else I've come across.

2) people don't willingly submit to rape. Rape involves a threat of force, whether implied or explicit -- submit or else, and the "else" is force.

3) In most jurisdictions, rape itself is considered grave bodily injury.

4) You do NOT shoot to disable. You do NOT shoot to kill. You shoot to stop. Once the danger of attack stops, then you stop shooting. The danger can stop because a) the perp runs off, b) the perp gives up (whether you hit him or not), c) the perp loses consciousness, or d) the perp expires.

It's weird because they say bodily harm but suppose the intent of the person was not to kill but just to rape and they didnt have a weapon?

Rape itself is grave bodily injury.

From a practical perspective, if the perp is in the middle of said act, you might be better off with an impact weapon to avoid harming your spouse.

 

[cevtv]

I disagree with disabling the first round would be right in the nuts to "disable" him, as far as the other 9 rounds...they'd end up somewhere near center mass I'm hoping. Sometimes you just get hopped up on adrenaline and empty the mag....you know...like Kurt Russel in Wyatt Earp.

In which case you will DEFINITELY be going to jail......

 

[ochmude]

If your fiance/wife was getting raped would it really matter what the law was at that point?!?!

No one damn bit.

 

[vellnueve]

Don't ever use a firearm to "disable." It's only purpose is lethal force.

The purpose is to neutralize the threat. Whether this means the perp ends up dead, wounded, comatose, or runs the hell away, that's the purpose.

In which case you will DEFINITELY be going to jail......

If emptying the mag is needed to stop him, then it's justified.

 

[M1911]

If emptying the mag is needed to stop him, then it's justified.

Agreed. It all depends upon the circumstances. In some circumstances, a single shot is not justified. In other circumstances, an entire magazine might be justified.

 

[Mark from MA]

In which case you will DEFINITELY be going to jail......

Obviously that was meant to be humerous and not how I would really handle the situation........but since we are being serious...living in MA and protecting yourself or your family with a firearm, jail time is always an assumed possibility.

At the end of the day, you do what you gotta do....not what Martha Coakley or the state thinks you should do. And if I have to do jail time for protecting my family then so be it.....