Self-defense pocketknives that are Mass compliant?

[amm5061]

I've never known it to be greater than 2.5 in the 20 years since I first moved to Boston.

And I've basically never not had a larger knife clipped to my pocket when in the city, nor has it ever earned me an interaction with BPD.

I got shit for my pocket knife from a rent-a-cop at the security checkpoint before boarding the Constitution once. Checking it before going in, claimed the blade was too long and I shouldn't be carrying it around the city. I just ignored him. I knew exactly how long the blade was, and it wasn't an issue. Got it back after disembarking and never had an issue otherwise.

 

[Goodandtight]

I agree that any training (if it is good) is better than no training. The training would hopefully teach you to run away if possible. If getting away is impossible, then surprise brutality is in order. Some can be trained and some is instinctive and inherent to varying degrees.

 

[bigbravehog]

I was thinking of doing this in my wife’s car. How does it stand up to sitting in a summer heat car? Any degradation to the spray?

I throw it away and replace every year. Although its a 4 year guarantee between -5F up to 176F, It's a small price to pay. I discharge it before throwing it away and it seems to be fine.

 

[Buck F]

I just watch so many videos of people being attacked in a vehicle and think to myself, it was legit for me to shoot someone driving a vehicle because it is a weapon. Someone reaches into my vehicle? They going for a ride until one of us gets tired anyway. I don't even consider my pistol if I'm behind the wheel of my truck.

Going for a ride isn't always an option, might be a parking lot scenario, car not started yet, etc.

<edit>The other thing to keep in mind in an inside the vehicle situation is the blast from either the ejection port on a semi or the front of the cylinder in a revolver. Let's say someone reaches in from the passenger side when you have a passenger in the car. You manage to get your gun and shoot the guy, and the blast blinds/seriously injures your passenger. Or you use a revolver for an attacker on the driver's side, you're likely to do more damage to yourself w/ the blast than to the attacker unless your gun is out the window, which presents it's own set of issues. Similar issues w/ using pepper spray from inside the vehicle. If your arm is outside the vehicle w/ whatever protection you choose to use. you're pretty vulnerable.

I always get a good laugh out of all these self defense videos. I would love to see them try these things in real time. Use a fake knife, you will discover 99% of the time the dude ends up with cuts all over.

Yeah, that video was pretty hilarious. If someone is in your back seat you already failed step 1 yet you're supposed to then remember to put your fingers between the rope and your neck, unbuckle the seatbelt... and make sure you tell him not to actually put tension on the rope so you can do it .

Even more revealing than using a fake knife is wearing a white t-shirt & using a red sharpie. Talk about a wake up call - and only the tip of the sharpie makes a mark.

 

[rogersmithiii]

View attachment 782365

Obviously a military style assault knife that needs knife safety legislation.

 

[Buck F]

You said this about Krav on one of my threads as well. What have you got against Krav? Pretty intense training that does give you some skills. Much better then no training at all.

He was just breaking my balls. One of the instructors at the school is a BJJ BB, he knows there's a time & place for both. I will say that most BJJ guys think it's the end-all be-all even in a street fight, I disagree. BJJ is the most physically/mentally intense martial arts training I'm aware of, except maybe the Shaolin monks A lot of the BJJ practitioners look down on the other martial arts because of that, and there are plenty of McDojos out there peddling garbage too. There are no gimmes in BJJ. BJJ guys tend to dominate in MMA, for a reason, but I'm not aware that BJJ training includes multiple attacker drills w/ weapons, modern gun defenses, active shooter, 3rd party defenses, vehicle defenses, etc. Hell, we even set up seats at the dojo and practice bus/train scenarios, shut the lights and run the strobes w/ loud music to simulate the club scene, get in the cars in the parking lots and run drills, etc. That's what I love about Krav, the real life applications, versus the more cerebral BJJ, which also has many real world applications. If I could go back in time I'd definitely do BJJ.

 

[JDL]

Some things to remember about knifes.
If you get in a knife fight you are going to get cut.
Knifes always do dammage and they never run out of bullets.
According to FBI stats Knifes are scarier then a gun. As far as the FBI.
People will comply more under a knife threat then a gun threat.
Learn the basics of self defense with a knife, you must feel confident in using a knife. Practice the use of a knife. Skip the auto, spring assist or even a thumb assist knife get a good flipper action knife, learn to use , they are even faster then a auto knife. And don't even think about a Bowsong you will end up cutting yourself. Eventhough they look Kool once you learn a few tricks.

 

[SpeedwayMike]

I'm picking up what you're putting down.

https://www.knifecenter.com/item/KA1480/ka-bar-1480-tdi-law-enforcement-knife-2-516-inch-black-plain-blade-zytel-handles

https://www.knifecenter.com/item/ON8860/ontario-rat-model-2-folding-knife-3-inch-satin-plain-blade-black-nylon-handles

I swear by the RAT, mines going 8 years strong. Exposed to full submersion in salt water every summer for the last seven summers.

 

[Buck F]

Some things to remember about knifes.
If you get in a knife fight you are going to get cut.
Knifes always do dammage and they never run out of bullets.
According to FBI stats Knifes are scarier then a gun. As far as the FBI.
People will comply more under a knife threat then a gun threat.
Learn the basics of self defense with a knife, you must feel confident in using a knife. Practice the use of a knife. Skip the auto, spring assist or even a thumb assist knife get a good flipper action knife, learn to use , they are even faster then a auto knife. And don't even think about a Bowsong you will end up cutting yourself. Eventhough they look Kool once you learn a few tricks.

Agreed. If someone wants to shoot you, they'll just come up and shoot you. If they're pointing a gun at you they either want something from you, in which case you comply, or they want to move you to a different location to do something to you. The statistic are staggering when your location is moved, you're not going to make it out alive & it's better to risk getting shot at trying to do a gun defense than going with them. With gun defense, once you redirect the muzzle the gun basically become inert as long as you can control the muzzle direction. If it's a semi handgun and you redirect (i.e. grab the barrel) the first shot will most likely go off and if it does, the gun won't cycle which means the perp now has to rack it to be able to shoot again. If you're able to control the gun/gun arm and they can't rack, you can rain down head butts, knees, groin kicks etc. and even try a disarm or disengage and run. By the time they rack & shoot at you fleeing, which likely they won't, you'll at least have a chance. None of this is perfect but you stand a better chance trying something if they're trying to move you than complying & going voluntarily, particularly if you're a woman. Never ever ever let them cuff/restrain you; you're going to die anyway so might as well die fighting.

W/ knives it's much harder to do an effective defense because the knife is always there and even if you have some control of the knife it can still do damage. When someone is repeatedly stabbing it's hard to get control of that arm versus gun where once the muzzle is pointed away from you it can't do much harm.

Here's a funny vid re knife defense that sums it up nicely:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvlrnc7hlQI

 

[Picton]

I took a combatives class in college that included a knife component. The "professor" was one of our ROTC instructors, though the class was open to the whole student body. It was a great class.

Anyway, he'd spent the c.1985-1993 period behind the fence at Ft Bragg (if you know what I mean), and while I'm not sure he'd ever gotten into a live knife fight himself, he'd certainly been trained. His two big lessons were, "If you're going to get into a knife fight, you're going to get cut" and "If I see a guy pull a knife on me, I'm going to move heaven and earth to get out of that situation as fast as possible. And I won't care how much damage I do while I get out of there." Made an impression.

He mentioned that the most important thing to train about with knives was retention. He demonstrated several times that it's very easy for a trained fighter to disarm folks who are holding knives, at which point it's no longer a knife fight; it's just a slaughter.

OP, I never worry about "knife compliance." The patchwork of local ordinances are impossible to follow strictly, given how many towns you drive through in MA on a normal basis. And I would think that if it ever comes up, you're in massive trouble already.

 

[Mesatchornug]

View: https://youtu.be/t69XMB-PINM?list=PL4FJXg8RNp-mqVhFpncyMk4rANel-TRa9

 

[Qwikdraw45]

I was thinking of doing this in my wife’s car. How does it stand up to sitting in a summer heat car? Any degradation to the spray?

I was trained that once you fire the first shot, you crack the seal. Therefor, I never "fired" a new can prior to use, until I was working at a second agency. The head armorer there said you should always test fire a new can. One of the turn-ins was what felt like a full can of spray. I took it out back and went to discharge it. The button was locked up tight. After that, I would test fire each can I carried before use.

Sitting in the AZ heat, and even the summer heat back here, the can will slowly leak propellant over time. I had what felt like a couple of mostly full cans. I discharged them at the bushes in front of our house, to discourage the neighbors cat from coming back and using them as a litter box. One just dribbled out (probably 3-4 years old, but not "expired" according to the label). So, lessons learned. Test fire a new can, once before use. Replace the can at least every couple of years. I've switched over to Kimber PepperBlaster since it's always windy where I am. Not sure if that is legal in MA or not. YMMV.

 

[headednorth]

Agreed. If someone wants to shoot you, they'll just come up and shoot you. If they're pointing a gun at you they either want something from you, in which case you comply, or they want to move you to a different location to do something to you. The statistic are staggering when your location is moved, you're not going to make it out alive & it's better to risk getting shot at trying to do a gun defense than going with them. With gun defense, once you redirect the muzzle the gun basically become inert as long as you can control the muzzle direction. If it's a semi handgun and you redirect (i.e. grab the barrel) the first shot will most likely go off and if it does, the gun won't cycle which means the perp now has to rack it to be able to shoot again. If you're able to control the gun/gun arm and they can't rack, you can rain down head butts, knees, groin kicks etc. and even try a disarm or disengage and run. By the time they rack & shoot at you fleeing, which likely they won't, you'll at least have a chance. None of this is perfect but you stand a better chance trying something if they're trying to move you than complying & going voluntarily, particularly if you're a woman. Never ever ever let them cuff/restrain you; you're going to die anyway so might as well die fighting.

W/ knives it's much harder to do an effective defense because the knife is always there and even if you have some control of the knife it can still do damage. When someone is repeatedly stabbing it's hard to get control of that arm versus gun where once the muzzle is pointed away from you it can't do much harm.

Here's a funny vid re knife defense that sums it up nicely:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvlrnc7hlQI

Non-knife related, but I recall reading that if youre unarmed and confronted by someone with a gun, the best move is to run because statistically, the other guy wont shoot, and if he does, statistically he'll miss, and if he doesnt, statistically youll survive (provided its a handgun and not a long gun). A lot of "if's" there, (and "statistically's" ) but supposedly thats how it works out.

 

[Quite_Exasperated]

Non-knife related, but I recall reading that if youre unarmed and confronted by someone with a gun, the best move is to run because statistically, the other guy wont shoot, and if he does, statistically he'll miss, and if he doesnt, statistically youll survive (provided its a handgun and not a long gun). A lot of "if's" there, (and "statistically's" ) but supposedly thats how it works out.

Is it acceptable to tactical roll if you don’t have a gun? Just pointing out a well timed tactical roll can’t hurt unless it’s not socially acceptable in that situation. We’re not animals after all, there are appearances to keep..

 

[jkelly1229]

You are basically giving the attacker something to kill you with unless you are an expert in technique and combat in general. What about pepper spray?

I mean are you expecting to be attacked by 6 ninja masters?

I carry a knife because I find them very useful in my day to day

I'm not a black belt by any means but I'm reasonably confident i can cut a person if needed

But how many people can get a pocket knife from someone else?

 

[OMM 0000]

This was covered in another thread awhile back.

Self defense knives&LTC

Ive tried to find some information about the laws in Massachusetts regarding knives? Im not talking about your regular pocket knifes. Im talking about concealed/fixed blades ie: Colonel Blades low vz, Kabar TDI..etc does your LTC-A cover these weapons as well? Or is is just for the firearms & ammo.

www.northeastshooters.com

I think its this thread that cites this section of MGL that says LTC gives you license to carry whatever knife you want. I bring this up as if you are on here, you probably have an LTC:

General Law - Part IV, Title I, Chapter 269, Section 10

malegislature.gov

No person having in effect a license to carry firearms for any purpose, issued under section one hundred and thirty-one or section one hundred and thirty-one F of chapter one hundred and forty shall be deemed to be in violation of this section.​

​

(2 paragraphs later)​

(b) Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, any stiletto, dagger or a device or case which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn at a locked position, any ballistic knife, or any knife with a detachable blade capable of being propelled by any mechanism, dirk knife, any knife having a double-edged blade, or a switch knife, or any knife having an automatic spring release device by which the blade is released from the handle, having a blade of over one and one-half inches,…..blah blah​

So LTC holders, carry whatever you want.

 

[OMM 0000]

there is a reason cops carried 5 D cell maglights, and for those who have never had any training with them, you might not have noticed cops always held them at shoulder level in their non dominant hand, with their hand grasping the light right in back of the bulb/reflector area.

It is a fast move from that position to swing it like a club at someone in front of you and when grasped that way it is not going to slip out of your hand.

I read an article where a guy suggests a Mini Maglight for airline flights as its about the most benign looking backup striking weapon you can imagine.

 

[Mtn_Guy]

Options…

WPS Fox Folder Knife - Black

Tactical Punch Dagger Folding Knife | Black Pocket Knives

warriorpoetsupplyco.com

WPS Push Dagger Knife - Black

Belt sheath concealed dagger. Push dagger. Dagger with holster.

warriorpoetsupplyco.com

WPS Clinch Pick Knife

We offer the best self-defense products and experiences. Shop tactical gear, body armor, knives, training courses, accessories & more at Warrior Poet Society!

warriorpoetsupplyco.com

Not a shill… I just think all three provide pretty good options…

 

[cams]

Non-knife related, but I recall reading that if youre unarmed and confronted by someone with a gun, the best move is to run because statistically, the other guy wont shoot, and if he does, statistically he'll miss, and if he doesnt, statistically youll survive (provided its a handgun and not a long gun). A lot of "if's" there, (and "statistically's" ) but supposedly thats how it works out.

 

[cams]

I read an article where a guy suggests a Mini Maglight for airline flights as its about the most benign looking backup striking weapon you can imagine.

Couple rolls of quarters and a pair of socks in your carry on.

 

[jkelly1229]

Some things to remember about knifes.
If you get in a knife fight you are going to get cut.
Knifes always do dammage and they never run out of bullets.
According to FBI stats Knifes are scarier then a gun. As far as the FBI.
People will comply more under a knife threat then a gun threat.
Learn the basics of self defense with a knife, you must feel confident in using a knife. Practice the use of a knife. Skip the auto, spring assist or even a thumb assist knife get a good flipper action knife, learn to use , they are even faster then a auto knife. And don't even think about a Bowsong you will end up cutting yourself. Eventhough they look Kool once you learn a few tricks.

I went to knife show when i was looking for houses in atl this past year

Scariest place I've ever been in my life bar none was the balisong section

There was like 2 aisles dedicated to idiots f***ing with their stupid knives

Absolutely terrifying place lol

 

[SavageShooter]

I mean are you expecting to be attacked by 6 ninja masters?

I carry a knife because I find them very useful in my day to day

I'm not a black belt by any means but I'm reasonably confident i can cut a person if needed

But how many people can get a pocket knife from someone else?

Same here. CS Voyager with a four inch blade is what I carry and use daily. Stainless blade and polymer handle mean no corrosion and it has been carried daily for over 10 years now. Just keep it deep in your back pocket while in Boston and other cities that ban anything longer than a nail clipper.

 

[SavageShooter]

Options…

WPS Fox Folder Knife - Black

Tactical Punch Dagger Folding Knife | Black Pocket Knives

warriorpoetsupplyco.com

WPS Push Dagger Knife - Black

Belt sheath concealed dagger. Push dagger. Dagger with holster.

warriorpoetsupplyco.com

WPS Clinch Pick Knife

We offer the best self-defense products and experiences. Shop tactical gear, body armor, knives, training courses, accessories & more at Warrior Poet Society!

warriorpoetsupplyco.com

Not a shill… I just think all three provide pretty good options…

Problem with push dagger knives is that they are considered "per se" weapons in many jurisdictions. Just carry a regular locking folder, which can easily be explained as a daily utility knife. If you do get charged, your defense attorney can point out that your folder is similar to those carried by tradesmen every day on the job. If you get charged for carrying what is obviously a fighting knife, mounting an effective legal defense would be much more challenging.

 

[Parker Schreiber]

So LTC holders, carry whatever you want.

Take this advice at your own risk, remembering who will actually end up having to pay a lawyer.

The problem is that the "no person . . . shall be deemed to be in violation of this section" language is in 10(a), and it's unclear if "section" refers to 10 all of Section 10 or just 10(a). If it refers to all of 10, it would means one could possess and carry a machine gun under 10(c).

As I've noted in the past, knife laws in Massachusetts are FUBAR. At least one court has ruled that a Scottish Dirk, is not, in fact, a "dirk knife," and a dagger doesn't have to be double edged.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I mean are you expecting to be attacked by 6 ninja masters?

I carry a knife because I find them very useful in my day to day

I'm not a black belt by any means but I'm reasonably confident i can cut a person if needed

But how many people can get a pocket knife from someone else?

Same, though I don't know shite about knife fighting and would be hesitant to pull out a knife unless I really had no other choice.

 

[jkelly1229]

Same, though I don't know shite about knife fighting and would be hesitant to pull out a knife unless I really had no other choice.

But even if i did... I'm pretty sure if it gets taken away from me...that dude was gunna kill me with out without it

 

[M1911]

In
View attachment 782339

No one expects the soft cushion:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2ncJ6ciGyM

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The problem is that the "no person . . . shall be deemed to be in violation of this section" language is in 10(a), and it's unclear if "section" refers to 10 all of Section 10 or just 10(a). If it refers to all of 10, it would means one could possess and carry a machine gun under 10(c).

Only semi-related:

1. A LTC allows one to carry "Firearms" as defined under MGL
2. SBRs are "Firearms" under MGL

So, according to the law you can carry a loaded AK or AR style SBR in the same places and manner as you can carry a conventional handgun if you have an LTC.

But, "good luck with that".

 

[TLB]

I mean are you expecting to be attacked by 6 ninja masters?

I carry a knife because I find them very useful in my day to day

I'm not a black belt by any means but I'm reasonably confident i can cut a person if needed

But how many people can get a pocket knife from someone else?

I've spent 30 years avoiding have anyone mess with me just by making eye contact. I would not tell my sister to carry a knife.

 

[LakeTrout]

I think a knife for self defense is an awful choice, but if I were to go that route it would be a fixed blade