Safety question

[Yelena]

Yesterday I had a little trouble at the range with my 1911 Kimber. One of the cartriges got jammed, and I could not take it out or take the magazine out. It is a first time something like this happens when nobody else is there. I was finally able to fix the problem, but just in case a similar situation will happen again, what is a correct step to take? I think it would be putting a weapon down with a muzzle pointed down the range and calling the range officer by phone immediately. Repeatedly trying to fix the problem even if it is unclear what is going on is probably unsafe.
Do you agree?

 

[Spanz]

Depends how it is jammed. If it is jammed in the chamber, ready to fire, I would leave it there for a good long time, pointed in a safe direction. At least 10 minutes.

 

[Supermoto]

Depends how it is jammed. If it is jammed in the chamber, ready to fire, I would leave it there for a good long time, pointed in a safe direction. At least 10 minutes.

After 10 minutes, does the gun clear itself?

 

[Raoul Duke]

After 10 minutes, does the gun clear itself?

I believe he's thinking that a late primer ignition could occur thus sending the bullet down the barrel sometime after the jam. If such a thing were to happen, it would indeed be best to have it pointed in a safe direction.

 

[TonyDedo]

Obviously keep it pointed in a safe direction at ALL TIMES.

Do you think it could be a mag problem? It's curious that you can't get the mag out when it jams. Try shooting with a different mag, and see if it helps.

Keep in mind that I'd be cautious about asking just anybody nearby for help. It's one thing to ask the range officer, but don't just ask the dope in the stall next to you. Who knows, he may be an idiot, and the last thing you need is an idiot shooting himself with your gun.

If it happens again, I'd put the gun down, wait a minute, then take pictures of the jam. Do the best to clear the jam (mag out if you can, pop the slide release out if you have to). Once there's nothing in the chamber, take the gun to a gunsmith, show him the pictures, and ask him to fix. I'd recommend Greg Derr - he's great with 1911s.

 

[massgun]

In general, all semi autos can experience certain types of malfunctions. If you own a semi auto, you should try to familiarize yourself with the types of malfunctions that can occur and how to clear them. Some malfunctions could render the gun dangerous to put back in the range bag or case and transport home.
If you have a problem at a range and other shooters are present, you could ask if anyone is familiar with your type of firearm and how to fix the problem. If you are alone and you can't figure it out, all you can do is try to transport the gun as safely as you can back home or to a friend who may know how to fix the problem.

 

[center442]

My impression from Yelena's post is that she got an out-of-battery jam and not a hangfire.

Yelena, did this happen right after you had fired a round? Was the slide not fully closed?

I've had similar things happen when firing a pistol. Picture the following:

1) Slide is coming forward, begins to strip a cartridge from the magazine.

2) Cartridge "nose" (the bullet) hits feed ramp and sticks - for whatever reason.

3) Slide cannot continue into battery because the jammed cartridge is stopping it.

4) Magazine can't be dropped because the back part of the cartridge case is still partly in the magazine.

Does this sound like what happened, Yelena? Post back some more details and I'm sure someone can tell you the best way to clear it. Once you understand how the jam occurs it's not that hard to clear.

The important thing is to keep the muzzle pointed down range. As long as you do that and hold on to the gun, you remain in control of the problem.

 

[Yelena]

My impression from Yelena's post is that she got an out-of-battery jam and not a hangfire.

Yelena, did this happen right after you had fired a round? Was the slide not fully closed?

I've had similar things happen when firing a pistol. Picture the following:

1) Slide is coming forward, begins to strip a cartridge from the magazine.

2) Cartridge "nose" (the bullet) hits feed ramp and sticks - for whatever reason.

3) Slide cannot continue into battery because the jammed cartridge is stopping it.

4) Magazine can't be dropped because the back part of the cartridge case is still partly in the magazine.

Does this sound like what happened, Yelena? Post back some more details and I'm sure someone can tell you the best way to clear it. Once you understand how the jam occurs it's not that hard to clear.

The important thing is to keep the muzzle pointed down range. As long as you do that and hold on to the gun, you remain in control of the problem.

This is what happened to me:
One cartrige was already in the barrel
The second cartrige stuck, as it hit the first one, but is not fully out of the mag.

I kept gun in both hands ponted down the range for about two minutes, then manually pushed the second cartrige down back to the mag, and then fired the first one. The ammo was round nose lead reloads.
I'm going to get this pistol checked before firing it again.

 

[Spanz]

Yeah, after 10 minutes, it just pops out magically!

No, what I meant to say was if it is a dud jammed in the chamber, the primer could eventually go off, or it could cook off if the gun was hot enough. I would treat it the same way I would treat finding an unwanted rattlesnake in my driveway--very carefully.

Obviously, if the cartridge fired, just send a rod or dowel down the barrel and extract it.

 

[Underwhere]

It happens.

I believe what happened to you was a double feed.
It's not a nice jam but it does happen.

I don't think you need to have the gun checked out just yet. If it continues to happen then yes.

I believe the most common way for this to happen is for the extractor not yanking the fired round out, and as a fresh round gets stripped it has nowhere to go but stuck.

Or for some reason the 2nd round just felt like popping his head up a little early.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Depends how it is jammed. If it is jammed in the chamber, ready to fire, I would leave it there for a good long time, pointed in a safe direction. At least 10 minutes.

If you get a cartridge that is stuck in the chamber and won't extract, it's often possible to use a small screwdriver to lift the extractor over the case rim, thus allowing disassembly of the gun. (Be careful not t bugger things up). This doesn't sound exactly like what happened to you, but is a useful trick to remember.

I have seen cases where guns could not be made safe without a detailed disassembly. The most interesting was a S&W model 625 where the shooter could not get the sylinder to open. I assisted by removing the sideplate (remember, NEVER pry off a sideplate - remove the screws and rap the bottom of the grip area with the butt of a screwdriver until the sideplate works out) and found that a broken internal part prevented disengagement of the pin that locks the cylinder. The shooter shipped the box of parts to S&W with an explanation and received excellent, free, service.

 

[matt]

This is what happened to me:
One cartrige was already in the barrel
The second cartrige stuck, as it hit the first one, but is not fully out of the mag.

I kept gun in both hands ponted down the range for about two minutes, then manually pushed the second cartridge down back to the mag, and then fired the first one. The ammo was round nose lead reloads.
I'm going to get this pistol checked before firing it again.

This is, I believe, referred to as a type 2 malfunction (type 1 being the classic stove pipe). It is a bugger to clear, but if you carry a Semi Auto handgun you should practice to clear this malfunction. After taking jim Conway's defensive pistol class I re-evaluated my choice of magazines I use because of this.

To clear this malfunction you have to rip the magazine out the bottom of grip with some considerable force, then rack the slide to clear the round in the chamber. If your magazines do not protrude out from the grip of the gun, this can be a bear to do because you can't get a grip on the magazine.

You can set up this malfunction to practice clearing by (starting with a clear gun, mag out):
1) lock the slide back
2) manually insert a round into the chamber
3) insert the magazine
4) GENTLY close the slide.

The slide will pick up a round on the way into battery and jam.

Now clear the round. Repeat until you can do it without thinking about it.

Matt

 

[mass]

I gun is no longer any good and should be discarded. I am willing to take that defective gun off your hands for free so you don't have to worry about it any more. The ammo is probibly no good also, so I'll take that too.

That's just the kind of guy I am.

-glad you could resolve the problem.

 

[center442]

It happens.

I believe what happened to you was a double feed.
It's not a nice jam but it does happen.

I don't think you need to have the gun checked out just yet. If it continues to happen then yes.

I believe the most common way for this to happen is for the extractor not yanking the fired round out, and as a fresh round gets stripped it has nowhere to go but stuck.

Or for some reason the 2nd round just felt like popping his head up a little early.

I think Underwhere is correct, Yelena. You actually handled it correctly. With this type of jam you really don't have to wait to clear it. The easiest way is to manually lock the slide back. This will let you see exactly what is going on and will give you access to the chamber to clear out the stuck round.

After you clear the jam, if the round in the chamber is unfired, release the slide and fire it. If the round has been fired, release the slide and then manually pull it back. This will usually extract the case. If this keeps happening then you may wish to have a gunsmith check the extractor. Bad or worn brass can also cause this, particularly if the rim of the cartridge is chewed up or damaged.

The trickiest types of problems to handle are misfires, hangfires, or squib rounds. These are the situations where you should do nothing but wait for a minute or two. That doesn't sound like what happened to you. I wouldn't rush off to a gunsmith unless this continues to happen. Also, try different ammo. Were these commercial reloads or brand new ammo?

This is a, I believe, refered to as a type 2 manfunction (type 1 being the classic stove pipe). It is a bugger to clear, but if you carry a Semi Auto handgun you should practice to clear this malfunction. After taking jim Conway's defensive pistol class I re-evaluated my choice of magazines I use because of this.

To clear this malfunction you have to rip the magazine out the bottom of grip with some considerable force, then rack the slide to clear the round in the chamber. If your magazines do not protrude out from the grip of the gun, this can be a bear to do because you can't get a grip on the magazine.

You can set up this malfunction to practice clearing by (starting with a clear gun, mag out):
1) lock the slide back
2) manually insert a round into the chamber
3) insert the magazine
4) GENTLY close the slide.

The slide will pick up a round on the way into battery and jam.

No clear the round. Repeat until you can do it without thinking about it.

Matt

Good advice from matt on how to practice clearing this type of jam. If you fire a semiauto long enough you'll have to learn to deal with these types of things. Just the nature of beast.

 

[Jose]

Repeatedly trying to fix the problem even if it is unclear what is going on is probably unsafe.
Do you agree?

No. I don't agree.

You should be able to correct any and all possible malfunctions of your firearm without waiting for assistance from some so-called "expert".

 

[Jose]

Keep in mind that I'd be cautious about asking just anybody nearby for help. It's one thing to ask the range officer, but don't just ask the dope in the stall next to you. Who knows, he may be an idiot, and the last thing you need is an idiot shooting himself with your gun..

What makes you think a "range officer" would know more than the dope next to you?

How many range officers know how to handle an M1 rifle? Or a Single Action Army? Hell, most cops nowadays fresh out of the academy wouldn't have the first clue how to safe a modern double action revolver.

 

[Knob Creek]

What makes you think a "range officer" would know more than the dope next to you?

How many range officers know how to handle an M1 rifle? Or a Single Action Army? Hell, most cops nowadays fresh out of the academy wouldn't have the first clue how to safe a modern double action revolver.

I am a NRA RSO. I know how to handle a M1 (own one) and a SAA (own 5) and many others. Part of the NRA Range Safety Officer Course is hands on loading and unloading a wide variety of firearms including M1's and Single Action revolvers. And making the statement that a new LEO could not handle a DA revolver is absurd.

 

[Bugs100]

Some times even with help you can't get a pistol cleared. But there is another way to clear a jammed pistol and it should only be used as a last resort. This is when all other attempts to clear the gun won't work and you don't want to transport the gun home or to a gunsmith with a live round stuck in the chamber.

First find a solid piece of wood like a 2x4 or 2x6 that's part of the range. Take the pistol pointing down range with all your fingers on the grip and press the edge of the slide against it. Your going to force the slide back using the stationary piece of wood.

Start out with a little pressure and increase it and keep increasing the pressure on the slide until the slide comes back and and you can either remove the mag and clear it. or if the mag is already out of the gun the pistol slide locks back and then you can clear it.

The reason this works is your putting a lot more force on the slide to come back then you can by pulling on it.

Remember this is not the recommended way you should clear a pistol and you should only try this if every other method has failed.

 

[matt1956]

After 10 minutes, does the gun clear itself?

only if it is a 'fully automatic handgun'