S 2265 (aka HB4285, 4278, 4121) out of Senate Ways and Means (FID Suitability)

Squire said:
Fights? She got a D in Geometry. He was absent or tardy too many days. He was in the Young Republicans club. She wasn't a cheerleader.
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think they will write those down to be reviewed in a court?
they will at least have to make up something decent
 
mattyw said:
think they will write those down to be reviewed in a court?
they will at least have to make up something decent
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Hell no they will use this part of the bill

also address the potential need for emergency and acute treatment for students, your son likes to fight he needs help NOW
 
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oldsoldier29 said:
Exactly. We can't get rid of the may issue (yet), but we can shift responsibility. And, thus, begin to burden the system. Then, sue for shall issue. By making the fid may issue, this forces them de facto be with us.
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"Burden of proof" may not be terribly high. For example, a chief denies an FID renewal to me in a few years. I have one A&B (dismissed; defended a friend in a bar fight when I was 21) and one 209A (wife ran off with boyfriend and her lawyer told her to make me look like the bad guy in court) long-expired. Now, I know for sure that if I lived in Wakefield, I would be denied a LTC straightaway. The chief did that to a dentist for a long-expired 209A and the courts upheld it. Now, if my FID renewal gets denied for things that happened in my distant past, I will still have to pony up thousands of $$$ in legal fees to fight the process, which could take years. Meanwhile, I am in possession of now-unlicensed firearms, which is a felony. No guarantees of success, either. The judge could rule with the chief and decide that the two incidents in my distant past make me a dangerous person and definitely unsuitable. Most people will be forced to walk away and live in another state, because they do not have the money for the court fight. As a result, the state will have far fewer licensed firearms owners, which I believe is the ultimate goal. The effect on crime? Slim to none. But then again, common sense was never the strong suit of our liberal pols.
 
Among other things, I notice that the legislature missed the opportunity to remove the FID requirement for Mace. I guess they were only blowing smoke about that violence against women stuff.

#Waronwomen, brought to you buy the Democrats in the MA Legislature.
 
Garys said:
Among other things, I notice that the legislature missed the opportunity to remove the FID requirement for Mace. I guess they were only blowing smoke about that violence against women stuff.

#Waronwomen, brought to you buy the Democrats in the MA Legislature.
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If the Democrats in the MA Legislature do not meet the (late) Col. Jeff Cooper's definition of "hoplophobe", then I honestly do not know who will. The only thing that they know about firearms and defensive weapons is that they hate them blindly. Except, of course, when such items are in the hands of military and police!
 
Just finished plowing through HB4278. Has anyone seen an section-by-section analysis by GOAL yet? I only saw a summary from them.

1. There's a bunch of unfunded school stuff in there. Not sure how the "Safe and Supportive Schools Framework" is going to be implemented.

2. I don't like the suicide data study, since I'm sure that data will be used in the future to further restrict gun rights of law abiding citizens.

3. LTC/FID classes are going to require a section on "harm reduction" now. (Section 13)

It seems reasonable to add the following:

1. Remove the ability to issue restrictions.

2. Remove the requirement of an FID for pepper spray.
 
This bill will not pass the senate as it reads Therese Murray need to make a name for her self remember she out soon
 
there is no reason that FID cards should be issued under any pretense of "suitability". But that being said, arguing over whether "suitability" gets applied to FID cards is like debating whether we want to get punched in the face or in the nuts.

in the long run I'm not convinced it will matter if FID cards get issued similarly to LTC's. the whole system is garbage. I was not raised in MA and I've never hunted here; but if what NESers here are saying is accurate, then perhaps having the hunter-FID card community flamed by .gov might help our cause overall.

In some ways, we know the solution to "suitability" won't occur in the MA legislature and highly unlikely to be fixed by a MA judge. As most of us know, if the BS "suitability" issue is ever actually fixed, it will almost certainly occur in a federal court and be driven by the fine folks of Comm2A or others. That being said, the best thing for us might be if the legislature gets ambitious about pushing "suitability," especially if there's obvious disparity that can be proven.

Having grown up in Illinois (yes I'm still recovering), I'll reference the FOID act and the statewide "ban" on concealed carry. Although it was a crap law, it was quite ambitious for the state to pass and enforce it...clearly a little too ambitious since they got spanked by SCOTUS.

Unfortunately these scumbags in MA are sneakier....they seem to be quite adept at enacting laws that efficiently deny our rights yet maintain a sufficiently mirkiness that they are unlikely to be challenged by a federal judge. Thus IMO it might be better for us if they get ambitious with "suitability", as awful as it is.

Just my 2c....I've been wrong many many times and this might be no different.
 
oldsoldier29 said:
Understand this: people complaining about mag limits, awb, etc-that's not part of the current bill. We need to deal with this first. We have shown that we have a voice. Contrary to what some are saying, this is a huge win. We lost, literally, nothing. We stopped the anti gun stuff. The fid? I say, let it ride. Then, we're all in the same boat. And, when someone sues the state for civil rights violation, we have the opportunity for shall issue. A bill WILL pass. We killed the worst parts if it. Those who attended rallies. Hearings. Contacted legislators. GOAL was a huge help in that-without them, we would have had an anti gun bill in January 2013. One thing was proven-we CAN be heard. Let's continue to be so.
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Was any current burden/restriction that we have under the current "already-one-of-the-most-restrictive-gun-laws-in-the-nation" lifted? If the answer is NO then we did not win and did lose. They still have CoP discretion, for example. Any ******* CoP can decide your LTC faith (yeah, I know, I know...you can appeal if they restrict you. Right [sarcasm] ).
 
sbi said:
Was any current burden/restriction that we have under the current "already-one-of-the-most-restrictive-gun-laws-in-the-nation" lifted? If the answer is NO then we did not win and did lose. They still have CoP discretion, for example. Any ******* CoP can decide your LTC faith (yeah, I know, I know...you can appeal if they restrict you. Right [sarcasm] ).
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NO (SSDD)
 
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Remember that 18 or 19 year old kid that had his fid card pulled . He was pulled over and had a 17 year old friend in the car and he was coming back from the range.

Nothing happen at the traffic stop. But the chef pulled his fid cause he didn't think it was right he was hanging out with a minor. I know he won in court but I bet that chef can't wait for the laws to go into effect to pull his fid again .
 
Billsail said:
The chief's wife taught little Jimmy in first grade, and told him he was a real trouble maker....no FID for Jimmy. [hmmm]
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It really not funny look what the school are doing NOW
call the cops hes playing army
call the cops he made a gun with his finger
call the cops he made gun with his food

- - - Updated - - -

StevieP said:
Why? It's not draconian enough for her?
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Remember her and patrick want 1 gun a month
 
This is from the old timers at D/D's

LTC restriction Yes still there
Jam up your kids in school Yes add
FTF still there but you need to use the portal and database
FID NOW may issue
Senate will add 1 gun month
Senate will add 10 round limits
Win Win Win just not for us
 
wacky_doug said:
Just finished plowing through HB4278. Has anyone seen an section-by-section analysis by GOAL yet? I only saw a summary from them.

1. There's a bunch of unfunded school stuff in there. Not sure how the "Safe and Supportive Schools Framework" is going to be implemented.

2. I don't like the suicide data study, since I'm sure that data will be used in the future to further restrict gun rights of law abiding citizens.

3. LTC/FID classes are going to require a section on "harm reduction" now. (Section 13)

It seems reasonable to add the following:

1. Remove the ability to issue restrictions.

2. Remove the requirement of an FID for pepper spray.
Click to expand...

this would have been a perfect bill to finally get the pepper spray issue over and done with, but both house and senate added it to their own bills for some dumb reason
 
rchap36 said:
Senate will add 1 gun month
Senate will add 10 round limits
Win Win Win just not for us
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they would have put this in the house bill if it had any chance of passing. if the senate adds it it still has to get cleared by the house I believe. highly unlikely they add ANYthing to the bill
 
mattyw said:
they would have put this in the house bill if it had any chance of passing. if the senate adds it it still has to get cleared by the house I believe. highly unlikely they add ANYthing to the bill
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Just remember how fast they move on the upskirt law but I hope your right
 
sbi said:
Was any current burden/restriction that we have under the current "already-one-of-the-most-restrictive-gun-laws-in-the-nation" lifted? If the answer is NO then we did not win and did lose. They still have CoP discretion, for example. Any ******* CoP can decide your LTC faith (yeah, I know, I know...you can appeal if they restrict you. Right [sarcasm] ).
Click to expand...

who said we won anything?
you two that keep nitpicking this thing to death are more than welcome to throw out some useful info, like how to defeat the bill entirely and get the AWB tossed along with mag restrictions, the lists, suitability tossed and constitutional carry instated... I imagine you would have thousands of supporters, me being one of the first

I hate unjust laws, I don't follow as many of them as I deem appropriate for me personally to do so, that doesn't mean I don't fight them from being created the best way I can in the meantime. Nothing wrong with minimizing casualties while you try and turn the battle in your favor
 
He didn't win, he dropped the suit for personal reasons. Whether he can or will apply for a FID or LTC in the future isn't relevant to the discussion at hand.

warwickben said:
Remember that 18 or 19 year old kid that had his fid card pulled . He was pulled over and had a 17 year old friend in the car and he was coming back from the range.

Nothing happen at the traffic stop. But the chef pulled his fid cause he didn't think it was right he was hanging out with a minor. I know he won in court but I bet that chef can't wait for the laws to go into effect to pull his fid again .
Click to expand...
 
mattyw said:
who said we won anything?


Understand this: people complaining about mag limits, awb, etc-that's not part of the current bill. We need to deal with this first. We have shown that we have a voice. Contrary to what some are saying, this is a huge win. We lost, literally, nothing. We stopped the anti gun stuff. The fid? I say, let it ride. Then, we're all in the same boat. And, when someone sues the state for civil rights violation, we have the opportunity for shall issue. A bill WILL pass. We killed the worst parts if it. Those who attended rallies. Hearings. Contacted legislators. GOAL was a huge help in that-without them, we would have had an anti gun bill in January 2013. One thing was proven-we CAN be heard. Let's continue to be so.
Click to expand...
 
mattyw said:
who said we won anything?
you two that keep nitpicking this thing to death are more than welcome to throw out some useful info, like how to defeat the bill entirely and get the AWB tossed along with mag restrictions, the lists, suitability tossed and constitutional carry instated... I imagine you would have thousands of supporters, me being one of the first

I hate unjust laws, I don't follow as many of them as I deem appropriate for me personally to do so, that doesn't mean I don't fight them from being created the best way I can in the meantime. Nothing wrong with minimizing casualties while you try and turn the battle in your favor
Click to expand...

But you are right its time to go (good luck )
 
This bill appears better than the last bill but is that merely to quiet us and give a feeling of content among the people who oppose ANY 2A RESTRICTIONS?
I just read todays statement from GOAL & they seem pleased with the bill.
I hope the early optimism being publicly expressed from them as well as some forum members here doesnt lead to a quick passing of further restrictions & infringements of 2A rights...
I still OPPOSE this bill as it stands and hope GOAL does as well...
 

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