Ron Paul rips NRA plan

The answer is what everyone on here knows: Getting rid of the GFZ and simply allowing already licensed/permitted individuals to carry on school grounds.

You don't need a squadron of police stationed at a school.
 
Boris said:
well, I guess that his plan doesn't include doing anything drastic that would prevent this for sure, because we can never be sure. Bad things will happen, it's life. I agree with him. Beyond letting teachers conceal carry and eliminating "will not shoot back" zones, this is going to be another TSA, totally useless, expensive and with false sense of security.
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agree.
 
cja1987 said:
Can you explain yourself more with regards to this issue?

What is it you don't like? Do you support another TSA type agency? Are you a communist? Should our kids have to feel like they are going to the airport every time they step into school? Paul is cautioning against that and he is 100% right. I know the NRA is trying to de-centralize and localize the program but you know what would happen if it went anywhere, it would end up entirely administered by the feds. Yup, I'd love for the feds to be running amok all over our schools just like they do at airports or at "inland border checks" 100 miles into the damn country, it would be great!

I won't go bashing the NRA in public and around the antis myself because of all the mainstream shit out there, its the only plan that will actually work but that does not make it good for liberty or even our kids. It won't go anywhere but if it did, it would end up as a federal thing with the NRA bankrolling it[sad2]
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No, I don't know that. Do you? The NRA never supported a TSA-like agency; they specifically called for locally-administered program. Paul immediately sets up the TSA straw-man to fire up his nutcase base in a pathetic attempt to somehow re-enter to public discussion.
 
ScottS said:
Yet another example of what a bumbling, old fool he is. His one true skill is spinning up a bunch of angry voters searching for a Messiah. The sooner this fool disappears from the public zeitgeist, the better.
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yeah, having armed government employees watching our kids every move, poking and prodding them, thats a great idea. if i was a kid ide rather get shot 11 times by a crazy than molested by some govt ****. you should move to MA or CT you'd fit right in
 
But Paul -- who said he agrees that "more guns equals less crime" and "private gun ownership prevents many shootings" -- nevertheless chided the NRA for its plan, describing it as a government solution that could infringe on liberty.

"Do we really want to live in a world of police checkpoints, surveillance cameras, metal detectors, X-ray scanners and warrantless physical searches? We see this culture in our airports: witness the shabby spectacle of once proud, happy Americans shuffling through long lines while uniformed TSA agents bark orders. This is the world of government provided 'security,' a world far too many Americans now seem to accept or even endorse," Paul said.
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Absolutely agree with this. We do not need .gov doing another thing for us.
 
RP is about half-right. Given a public school system and given a gun-free zone around schools for the commoners, teachers, and the like, then it's immoral not to offer some form of security for the kids. The kids didn't vote for this stupid system. They don't get to decide whether to attend school or not. They don't get to (or have the maturity to) protect themselves. So, given that government and society have decided to herd them into public facilities against their will, it is incumbent on that government and society to protect them. No need for more more .gov workers, just station the local police in sufficient number. If the rest of society suffers a crime increase as a result (doubtful) I really don't care. I detest the police state, and we should not increase it in any way.

Where RP is correct is that this shouldn't be a government-solved problem. These things are so rare that preventing them is an unmeasurable and imperfect effort no matter how it's constructed. Like a lot of idealists he prefers a solution that is defensible in an ideal world. If we could get there, I would rather have his preferred outcome than the one we have. As it is, I'm not willing the leave little kids at risk (even minimal) as a price for idealism. That price should be born by adults.
 
PowerJoker6.0 said:
yeah, having armed government employees watching our kids every move, poking and prodding them, thats a great idea. if i was a kid ide rather get shot 11 times by a crazy than molested by some govt ****. you should move to MA or CT you'd fit right in
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Again, Reading Is Fundamental.

At no point did the NRA recommend a govt agency be deployed into schools. That's a straw man argument offered by the Head Paulbot. The NRA-offered plan is for an individually tailored, locally-manned security plan to protect kids in schools.

Yeah, we'd never want that.
 
I like the idea of eliminating "Gun Free Zones" and allowing educators to carry inside the school, if they choose to do so and are legally able (CCW permit in states that require them).

Its about time we start trying to solve problems with freedom instead of the opposite (govt).
 
Horrible said:
I like the idea of eliminating "Gun Free Zones" and allowing educators to carry inside the school, if they choose to do so and are legally able (CCW permit in states that require them).

Its about time we start trying to solve problems with freedom instead of the opposite (govt).
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here here!
 
ScottS said:
Yet another example of what a bumbling, old fool he is. His one true skill is spinning up a bunch of angry voters searching for a Messiah. The sooner this fool disappears from the public zeitgeist, the better.
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you beat me too it, i agree completely. And i don't think children

will be stripped searched.
 
Still want to wait to see how this whole School Sheild plan plays out. It could just be a guide for active shooter plans and facility security dependent on the setting and resources available. At the same time, this security plan shouldn't be put into overkill where you have bearcat vehicles doing perimeter patrols.
 
ScottS said:
Again, Reading Is Fundamental.

At no point did the NRA recommend a govt agency be deployed into schools. That's a straw man argument offered by the Head Paulbot. The NRA-offered plan is for an individually tailored, locally-manned security plan to protect kids in schools.

Yeah, we'd never want that.
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paid and employed by whom?

like others have said, abolish the GFZ's, give teachers who wish to carry the ability to do so, and this problem will go away.
 
ScottS said:
At no point did the NRA recommend a govt agency be deployed into schools.
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Do you believe the "national mental health database" the NRA called for is going to be a private entity?

People are blustering about cops in schools. Meh. Just lift the ban, and let everyone who can legally carry outside a school, do so inside the school. Problem solved.

Meanwhile, everyone is ignoring the truly scary and dangerous national database the NRA proposed. If you think getting an unrestricted carry license in MA is tough, wait until a bunch of shrinks and social workers decide if you're stable enough to even own a gun.
 
The national mental health database was a coordination function, and I don't have a problem with making sure the patchwork of state records gets uniformly reported into NICS. No one said some new cadre of social workers is suddenly going to appear to evaluate gunowners.
 
Yeah - those that didn't vote for Romney made their point, and we got Obama.

Now, side with Ron Paul and dismiss NRA, and get an AWB worse than the last and universal background checks.

What's the point you will be making, who will hear it or remember it?
 
MaverickNH said:
Yeah - those that didn't vote for Romney made their point, and we got Obama.
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Right, it's the Paul supporters that caused Obama to win.

GMAFB... [rolleyes]

- - - Updated - - -

MaverickNH said:
What's the point you will be making, who will hear it or remember it?
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That government can't fix everyone's problems. And probably no one. So much for "Live free or die", eh?
 
Lignum Vitea said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/24/ron-paul-rips-nra-plan-for-officers-in-every-school/

RP has legitimate points. However nothing like criticizing a plan without putting forth a solution of your own. [thinking]
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Jefferson knew enough about the politics of power to take his wins where he could and table impractical ideals for the future. Paul is no Jefferson, but he could certainly learn something from him....

In a perfect world all schools would be "private" and would provide whatever level of security was appropriate based on their individual situation. Our government forced take-over of the educational system has made that ideal into a fantasy in the near to mid term, and until that ideal becomes reality we have a practical need to protect kids in schools. Though we all hate the idea that means working within the .gov framework. We can protect our kids in school today while we work to get the .gov out of the educational system over the long term.
 
Transcript of the NRA speech: http://home.nra.org/pdf/Transcript_PDF.pdf

Every school and community is different, but this model security plan will allow every school to choose among its various components to develop a school safety strategy that fits their own unique situation, whether it's a large urban school, a small rural school or anything in between.

Armed, trained, qualified school security personnel will be one element of that plan, but by no means the only element. If a school decides for whatever reason that it doesn't want or need armed security personnel, that of course is a decision to be made by parents at the local level.

The second point I want to make is that this will be a program that doesn't depend on massive funding from local authorities or the federal government. Instead, it'll make use of local volunteers serving in their own communities.
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Cries from the left (that RP and some of us here on NES are mindlessly parroting) about "armed guards in every school" or "another big .gov bureaucracy" are just not true. But hey, if it was on CNN or Fox News it must be true, right?
 
Lignum Vitea said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/24/ron-paul-rips-nra-plan-for-officers-in-every-school/

RP has legitimate points. However nothing like criticizing a plan without putting forth a solution of your own. [thinking]
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As others have said, the problem is that the sane and rational approach is to do nothing at all right now and certainly nothing specific as "the problem" is not one that can be specifically addressed with school security and certainly not with federal intervention into local community matters.

Such level headed thinking, it seems, cannot compete with the hysteria.
 
KBCraig said:
You really are in the wrong state, aren't you?

There's a state migration movement you might be interested in: http://freelunchproject.com/
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Yeah, because uniformly reporting mental health records is a bad thing.

The NRA-co-authored, NICS Improvement Act authorized $200 million dollars a year for five years to improve the submission of mental health records to the NICS. This latest effort is an attempt to improve that process. Can't be having that now.
 

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