Revolver Rabbithole

[E.Stoner]

Just got back from the range and shot 250 rnds of 38 and 50 .357.

I couple of initial impressions:

1. The sights do infact suck. They are worse than the red ramp and on a black target are impossible to see. On white target they are ok, but they've got to go.

2. Shoots to the right. I had to adjust the rear pretty far to the left at the range. It was off about 3" at 10 yards. I confirmed this with a boresight just now. I was planning on getting fixed rear sights but I might just get LPA TXT's again in black and with Hi-Viz fronts. I don't really need night sights and I'd much rather be able to actual see the front sight.

3. The grips are pretty, but they also suck. The spacing of the finger grooves is leaves the fingers cramped and keeps me from getting a good purchase on the gun. As a result shooting .38 is fine, but .357 was not fun. It also came with a pair of rubber grips that are much more comfortable. Next time I go to the range I'll try the rubber grips and the hogues from by 686. I suspect I'll get another pair of plain checkered cocobolo hogues but with a round butt.

4. On a positive note: Cleaning a blued (black) gun is way more enjoyable than a stainless gun simply because you cant see every tiny bit of carbon!

I am really curious to get the side plate off in the next day or two and change the springs, but also to see if there is any applicable difference in the treatment of the internals. For being a "performance center" model I am not blown away by the trigger which is not only heavy but a bit rough too. I was also disappointed to find that ratchet had not really been deburred at all it was very sharp and had sever really large burrs hanging off of the front and side surfaces. I was hoping not to have to touch anything but we'll see.

 

[Terminator03]

Just got back from the range and shot 250 rnds of 38 and 50 .357.

I couple of initial impressions:

1. The sights do infact suck. They are worse than the red ramp and on a black target are impossible to see. On white target they are ok, but they've got to go.

2. Shoots to the right. I had to adjust the rear pretty far to the left at the range. It was off about 3" at 10 yards. I confirmed this with a boresight just now. I was planning on getting fixed rear sights but I might just get LPA TXT's again in black and with Hi-Viz fronts. I don't really need night sights and I'd much rather be able to actual see the front sight.

3. The grips are pretty, but they also suck. The spacing of the finger grooves is leaves the fingers cramped and keeps me from getting a good purchase on the gun. As a result shooting .38 is fine, but .357 was not fun. It also came with a pair of rubber grips that are much more comfortable. Next time I go to the range I'll try the rubber grips and the hogues from by 686. I suspect I'll get another pair of plain checkered cocobolo hogues but with a round butt.

4. On a positive note: Cleaning a blued (black) gun is way more enjoyable than a stainless gun simply because you cant see every tiny bit of carbon!

I am really curious to get the side plate off in the next day or two and change the springs, but also to see if there is any applicable difference in the treatment of the internals. For being a "performance center" model I am not blown away by the trigger which is not only heavy but a bit rough too. I was also disappointed to find that ratchet had not really been deburred at all it was very sharp and had sever really large burrs hanging off of the front and side surfaces. I was hoping not to have to touch anything but we'll see.

Those surface finish issues you describe are unacceptable, ESPECIALLY in a PC model. Extra finish detailing is exactly what you are supposed to be paying a premium for! I would be sending it back to Smith, and let them do what they were paid to do the first time! Who knows, maybe it will get the attention of someone in upper management to show how bad their QC is.

 

[ejl923]

Just got back from the range and shot 250 rnds of 38 and 50 .357.

I couple of initial impressions:

1. The sights do infact suck. They are worse than the red ramp and on a black target are impossible to see. On white target they are ok, but they've got to go.

2. Shoots to the right. I had to adjust the rear pretty far to the left at the range. It was off about 3" at 10 yards. I confirmed this with a boresight just now. I was planning on getting fixed rear sights but I might just get LPA TXT's again in black and with Hi-Viz fronts. I don't really need night sights and I'd much rather be able to actual see the front sight.

3. The grips are pretty, but they also suck. The spacing of the finger grooves is leaves the fingers cramped and keeps me from getting a good purchase on the gun. As a result shooting .38 is fine, but .357 was not fun. It also came with a pair of rubber grips that are much more comfortable. Next time I go to the range I'll try the rubber grips and the hogues from by 686. I suspect I'll get another pair of plain checkered cocobolo hogues but with a round butt.

4. On a positive note: Cleaning a blued (black) gun is way more enjoyable than a stainless gun simply because you cant see every tiny bit of carbon!

I am really curious to get the side plate off in the next day or two and change the springs, but also to see if there is any applicable difference in the treatment of the internals. For being a "performance center" model I am not blown away by the trigger which is not only heavy but a bit rough too. I was also disappointed to find that ratchet had not really been deburred at all it was very sharp and had sever really large burrs hanging off of the front and side surfaces. I was hoping not to have to touch anything but we'll see.

A thing about finger grooves in grips, theyre usually a hindrance which is counter intuitive to what most people think. They force fingers into positions they dont want to be. Slight contours are usually more comfortable. I design different types of hand tools for a living. Most ergonomics books tell you NOT to use finger grooves. Exceptions would be custom fits or maybe low use high control items. A great example are chef knives.

I have a 617, great fun to shoot. Doesnt have the big bang, but still love it. Mostly, the wife loves it but i shoot it quite a bit. A do borrow a .357 from time to time, more fun to shoot than my .38 airweight.

 

[E.Stoner]

Those surface finish issues you describe are unacceptable, ESPECIALLY in a PC model. Extra finish detailing is exactly what you are supposed to be paying a premium for! I would be sending it back to Smith, and let them do what they were paid to do the first time! Who knows, maybe it will get the attention of someone in upper management to show how bad their QC is.

I agree. The more I look at things the more little issues I see that bother me.
-The little stop behind the trigger was ground or filed, but also not deburred. It was sharp to the touch and also put two little wear marks through the finish where it contacts the trigger guard. I had to knock down the edge with a stone.
-The blade of the rear sight is crooked.
-The middle screw of the side plate was just slightly pre-boogered.
-The Cylinder gap is 0.001 uneven left to right
-The barrel is just ever so slightly mis-timed.

I am not sure any of these issues are dealbreakers and I am perfectly happy to do work on my guns.
When I get a new pistol I usually clean it, take it to the range, clean it and then take the entire thing apart and put it back together.
Almost expect that you'll have to do a little something to a gun to but this one seems a lot rougher than my plain Jane 686.
I am getting new sights and going to drop them in. If it has problems after that I'll send it to S&W.

 

[E.Stoner]

A thing about finger grooves in grips, theyre usually a hindrance which is counter intuitive to what most people think. They force fingers into positions they dont want to be. Slight contours are usually more comfortable. I design different types of hand tools for a living. Most ergonomics books tell you NOT to use finger grooves. Exceptions would be custom fits or maybe low use high control items. A great example are chef knives.

I have a 617, great fun to shoot. Doesnt have the big bang, but still love it. Mostly, the wife loves it but i shoot it quite a bit. A do borrow a .357 from time to time, more fun to shoot than my .38 airweight.

I totally agree on the finger grooves. The likelihood that finger grips of any shape are going to fit more than only a small percentage of total users is infinitesimally small. I am also a woodworking handtool nut (classic saws in particular). You never see finger grooves on any of these tools and they basically have almost the exact same functional requirements of a firearm (except they are generally designed for one handed use). The grip is nearly identical. Finger grips look really cool, but unless you are fitting them exactly to your hand it's probably going to be way off. For my 686 I bought two pairs of hogues, one with grooves. The ones with grooves LOOKED AWESOME and even fit reasonably well. I with a little bit of handwork I could probably get them fitting perfect, however they forced me to hold the gun about a half inch lower than I had to. The ones with out the grooves I could choke up all the way to the hammer and get a really full palm purchase with both hands. It makes shooting magnums no problem.
Jerry Miculek, uses smooth no grooved grips so he can make micro adjustments on the fly, if it works for him I have to believe there something to it.

 

[otasan]

I have an S&W 629 6-inch that I shoot bowling pins and deer with here in VT/NH.

 

[allen-1]

I agree. The more I look at things the more little issues I see that bother me.
-The little stop behind the trigger was ground or filed, but also not deburred. It was sharp to the touch and also put two little wear marks through the finish where it contacts the trigger guard. I had to knock down the edge with a stone.
-The blade of the rear sight is crooked.
-The middle screw of the side plate was just slightly pre-boogered.
-The Cylinder gap is 0.001 uneven left to right
-The barrel is just ever so slightly mis-timed.

I am not sure any of these issues are dealbreakers and I am perfectly happy to do work on my guns.
When I get a new pistol I usually clean it, take it to the range, clean it and then take the entire thing apart and put it back together.
Almost expect that you'll have to do a little something to a gun to but this one seems a lot rougher than my plain Jane 686.
I am getting new sights and going to drop them in. If it has problems after that I'll send it to S&W.

That's kinda messed up for a Performance Center pistol. I'd contact Smith and Wesson. You're paying premium money for what should be a premium product...

That being said, go find a used 617, (.22). Check the cylinder to make sure that the monkeys haven't dry-fired it too many times and if that's good, make it yours.

 

[jobowker]

My recommendations for your next revolver:
1) S&W 617 which is a 10 shot .22 revolver
2) Ruger Blackhawk, single-action .44

.22's are just fun, and in a revolver can't be beat for plinking.
The Ruger blackhawk is seriously over-engineered, fits my hand well and is fun to shoot.

I have a Ruger Blackhawk flattop 44. By far my favorite revolver.

 

[peterthefish]

I agree. The more I look at things the more little issues I see that bother me.
-The little stop behind the trigger was ground or filed, but also not deburred. It was sharp to the touch and also put two little wear marks through the finish where it contacts the trigger guard. I had to knock down the edge with a stone.
-The blade of the rear sight is crooked.
-The middle screw of the side plate was just slightly pre-boogered.
-The Cylinder gap is 0.001 uneven left to right
-The barrel is just ever so slightly mis-timed.

I prefer S&Ws to Rugers, but this is par for the course on their current production guns. I've had to send about half of my new revolvers back to them for work after purchase.

That's kinda messed up for a Performance Center pistol. I'd contact Smith and Wesson. You're paying premium money for what should be a premium product...

Once upon a time that was true. Now their PC guns are just more performance oriented SKUs that get no more attention than any other revolver they put out the door. The lockwork of my new 929 was full of swarf when I got it. It's ridiculous but it is what it is.