restriction removal denial

[pochito413]

I wrote a letter to request to have my restrictions removed. Turned the letter in on Thursday afternoon. Received a phone call this morning. Voice-mail said it was denied and the restrictions will remain the same. I called back and spoke with a clerk at the pd an I was told it was denied is because there is no reason my restrictions need to be removed. My license is restricted to target and hunting. The lady I spoke with said well if you open a business or get a job that requires an ltc then you can have your restrictions removed. I said so your telling me that the only way to have my restrictions removed is to find a new job or open a business. She said yes that is the only way to receive an unrestricted ltc in Springfield. Is there anything I can do. I know I can lawyer up but I don't have the finances for that right now. Also don't have the finances to move out of MA. I do have the ladies name that I spoke with and also the chief that denied my request. I also have a copy of the letter I sent in. Should I contact Comm2a. If so, how should I contact them. Is there a number to call? Is there an email to contact them. Please let me know if there is anything I can do. I will be resubmitting my letter after January so they will have to give me reasoning in writing. Is don't own a business or doesn't have a job that requires one a sufficient reason?

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Sadly, there's not much you can do. You can 'lawyer up' but that would be a waste of time and money, at least until we get decision in Davis or Holden.

Springfield is by far the most restrictive city in Massachusetts. Short of a policy change on their part or a binding court ruling (probably from SCOTUS), you're going to be stuck.

 

[pochito413]

Sadly, there's not much you can do. You can 'lawyer up' but that would be a waste of time and money, at least until we get decision in Davis or Holden.

Springfield is by far the most restrictive city in Massachusetts. Short of a policy change on their part or a binding court ruling (probably from SCOTUS), you're going to be stuck.

Oh wow this is terrible. Do you think I should resubmit a letter in January and request I get the reason for denial in writing or should I hold off a little longer?

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Oh wow this is terrible. Do you think I should resubmit a letter in January and request I get the reason for denial in writing or should I hold off a little longer?

Nothing changes in January. Getting a reason in writing won't help you. There's no legal grounding for a court to find in your favor and without that, hounding your PD into submission is your only option.

Other than that, you're best approach is to try to differentiate yourself from the population as a whole. What make you special enough to carry a firearm in public? that's what they're looking for.

 

[kalash]

Have you had any training or taken any classes? That helps in some towns.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Have you had any training or taken any classes? That helps in some towns.

Frequently true, but probably not so much in Springfield.

 

[pochito413]

Frequently true, but probably not so much in Springfield.

This is what I have heard. Its just money spent on classes they do not care for. I have only taken the basic course but have been to many ranges and will be joining a range Jan 6. Probably doesnt count as training to them. I have been trying to get into the hunters safety course and am also trying to get the money together to take MA law classes and self defense classes. I am a nationally certified emt and also am a cpr instructor meaning i can carry upwards of $1000 in cash on me depending on the size of classes that i teach. Might not be enough for them as i put that on my application and they still restricted me. Guess I am sol for now

 

[BearClaw500]

Maybe you do a lot of hiking and camping in the badlands of western MA, and want to carry a 460 in a shoulder rig in case the theres a pissed off bear or deranged lunatic roaming the forest.

I may be wrong, but implying to them that your job requires your to carry, or that you carry large sums of a cash on you for your job, could they attach some sort of work restriction? Is there such a thing? I thought I've seen such a thing.

 

[A1850]

Yup. I had a work restriction but eventually had it removed.

Maybe you do a lot of hiking and camping in the badlands of western MA, and want to carry a 460 in a shoulder rig in case the theres a pissed off bear or deranged lunatic roaming the forest.

I may be wrong, but implying to them that your job requires your to carry, or that you carry large sums of a cash on you for your job, could they attach some sort of work restriction? Is there such a thing? I thought I've seen such a thing.

 

[Chinfidel]

Not familiar with the restriction but, would obtaining a hunting license help? You could say carry a .38 from Oct-Mar 1/2 hour before sunrise till midnight "hunting coyote", or Sep-Jan, any caliber handgun 1/2 hour before sunrise till 1/2 after sunset "hunting grey squirrel". Also many others may be "hunted" year-round.

 

[BearClaw500]

You're an avid crow hunter. Basically if you can lift the gun, you can hunt crow with it. Rifle shotgun or handgun.

 

[Another_David]

This is what I have heard. Its just money spent on classes they do not care for. I have only taken the basic course but have been to many ranges and will be joining a range Jan 6. Probably doesnt count as training to them. I have been trying to get into the hunters safety course and am also trying to get the money together to take MA law classes and self defense classes. I am a nationally certified emt and also am a cpr instructor meaning i can carry upwards of $1000 in cash on me depending on the size of classes that i teach. Might not be enough for them as i put that on my application and they still restricted me. Guess I am sol for now

sounds like you have your own business already

 

[Mike-Mike]

Go to city hall and pull a DBA for $25. Congrats your a business owner.

 

[MisterHappy]

Not familiar with the restriction but, would obtaining a hunting license help? You could say carry a .38 from Oct-Mar 1/2 hour before sunrise till midnight "hunting coyote", or Sep-Jan, any caliber handgun 1/2 hour before sunrise till 1/2 after sunset "hunting grey squirrel". Also many others may be "hunted" year-round.

Bad advice. You may not lawfully hunt within 150' of a road; you are hunting when the gun is loaded. Therefore, you'd have to carry unloaded to be lawfully hunting, or you are in violation of hunting laws. You may not hunt from a motor vehicle. Same deal with the loaded gun.

Your only out is to have a black powder revolver ( as they are by statute not firearms) as your carry piece. Then, when John Law finds out that you think you're an escapee from Bonanza, your restrictions will likely go from target and hunting to "NO LTC FOR YOU!"

So, you're not in a good position. Sorry. But using the hunting laws to skirt the MGLs WRT gun laws is not a good plan, IMO.


IANAL, YMMV and all other disclaimers, pro forma.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Nothing changes in January. Getting a reason in writing won't help you. There's no legal grounding for a court to find in your favor and without that, hounding your PD into submission is your only option.

Other than that, you're best approach is to try to differentiate yourself from the population as a whole. What make you special enough to carry a firearm in public? that's what they're looking for.

IANAL but this is BS, what about the 2nd Amendment, you know the one that is a right!

 

[MisterHappy]

IANAL but this is BS, what about the 2nd Amendment, you know the one that is a right!

Using that as a reason in the PRM is about as useful as yelling at the CoP, "I pay your salary, pig!" while jabbing him in the chest with your finger.

Knuckle Dragger knows what he's typing. Read and Heed.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Using that as a reason in the PRM is about as useful as yelling at the CoP, "I pay your salary, pig!" while jabbing him in the chest with your finger.

Knuckle Dragger knows what he's typing. Read and Heed.

I know, he knows. Just pisses me off that the state gets away with stepping on a RIGHT!

 

[OhNoNotaGun]

I'd save up and move to a pro-gun state, like NH. That's what I'm working on. Assachusetts has grown into a narcissistic babysitter.

 

[pochito413]

I would think it is but I put it on my application and it got completely ignored. I felt like just saying to the lady, okay so I live within 2 blocks of at least 5 murders that happened in springfield. is that enough reason to get my license unrestricted so I can protect myself but maybe actually pointing out how bad the area is that I live in might not be so smart. I do want to move and have been looking for houses but its hard to find something I like. I wish I can move out of MA but unfortunately im the only one working as my fiancé is in school and we also have a new kid so moving to nh without a career there is out of the picture

sounds like you have your own business already

 

[ASHDUMP]

maybe someone can fill me in here... i thought starting january 1, all restrictions would have to be followed by a reason for restriction by the local chief. or, is that only for denials...?

Thanks,

 

[warwickben]

maybe someone can fill me in here... i thought starting january 1, all restrictions would have to be followed by a reason for restriction by the local chief. or, is that only for denials...?

Thanks,

That's what a lot of us thought . But it seems to be more of just being denied flat out . Vs getting a restriction .

 

[Chevy 2 65]

maybe someone can fill me in here... i thought starting january 1, all restrictions would have to be followed by a reason for restriction by the local chief. or, is that only for denials...?

Thanks,

I could have sworn its for restrictions

 

[pochito413]

I could have sworn its for restrictions

Thats what I thought

 

[modnaru]

Maybe you do a lot of hiking and camping in the badlands of western MA, and want to carry a 460 in a shoulder rig in case the theres a pissed off bear or deranged lunatic roaming the forest.

Tried that strategy in Somerville - got me "Sporting" in addition to "Hunting & Targeting"...

I may be wrong, but implying to them that your job requires your to carry, or that you carry large sums of a cash on you for your job, could they attach some sort of work restriction? Is there such a thing? I thought I've seen such a thing.

Some towns (incl Somerville) will apparently (as in I know personally of one case) issue unrestricted e.g. to a Realtor who has to go into empty houses with strangers, etc.

 

[BearClaw500]

Tried that strategy in Somerville - got me "Sporting" in addition to "Hunting & Targeting"...


Some towns (incl Somerville) will apparently (as in I know personally of one case) issue unrestricted e.g. to a Realtor who has to go into empty houses with strangers, etc.

I've also heard of realtors getting granted NR.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

maybe someone can fill me in here... i thought starting january 1, all restrictions would have to be followed by a reason for restriction by the local chief. or, is that only for denials...?

Thanks,

The main things that changes with respect to restrictions is that people now have a statutory right to appeal restrictions. It was never clear to me or anyone else that the right to appeal a license restriction didn't already exist, but now it's baked into the law.

What didn't change is any requirement or obligation on the part of a PD to justify restricting someone's LTC.

Section 51 of Chapter 284 of the Acts of 1984 reads in part:

If after a hearing a justice of the court finds that there was no reasonable ground for denying, suspending, revoking or restricting the license and that the petitioner is not prohibited by law from possessing a license, the justice may order a license to be issued or reinstated to the petitioner or may order the licensing authority to remove certain restrictions placed on the license.

What the legislature did NOT do is clarify what constitutes 'reasonable' grounds for restricting an LTC, which is the same as it has always been. To paraphrase other posts of mine, here's how most restriction appeals will go:

Judge: "Chief, why did you restrict this person's LTC?"

Chief: "I feel that allowing regular people who are not highly train law enforcement professionals to carry a concealed, large-capacity firearm in public presents a substantial risk to public safety. And for that reason we restrict the LTC of everyone who cannot demonstrate that they face a heightened and particularized threat to their personal that differentiates them from the general public."

Judge: "Okay, that sounds reasonable".

Done. That's it. Even if you do win a district court appeal you can expect the licensing authority will appeal and run up your legal tab.

 

[PaulR]

Go to city hall and pull a DBA for $25. Congrats your a business owner.

Give this man a chicken dinner.

 

[Coyote33]

So start a business. Read on: Fortunes

Sometimes, you just need to follow the rules to the letter. Did she wink when she mentioned starting a business? Doesn't have to be a successful business, right?

 

[kalash]

I thought the language changed from "unsuitable" to "prohibited person"?

 

[Another_David]

It sounds like you tried twice on your own: once on the initial application and again in this letter. At this point they might interpret further varying requests in a short period as misleading.

I wouldn't communicate with them anytime soon without a lawyer.