Rejected!

[DTR]

Hey guys looking for some advice. Last friday after spending a week in the hospital I received a letter from the Quincy police department The letter said that I had been denied my LTC application citing a insufficient reason for applying for one. Some basic info about me, I am 21, I work as an electrical apprentice and I dont even have a speeding ticket to my name. Oh, another thing I have had a FID for the past 3 years. Applying under Chief Crowley I was expecting to have to take a restricted A licence, but an outright rejection just caught me by complete surprise. So basically I am trying to find out what my options are at this point and which direction to go from here. Any advice would be sincerely appreciated.
Thanks
Dan

 

[jhblaze1]

Hey guys looking for some advice. Last friday after spending a week in the hospital I received a letter from the Quincy police department The letter said that I had been denied my LTC application citing a insufficient reason for applying for one. Some basic info about me, I am 21, I work as an electrical apprentice and I dont even have a speeding ticket to my name. Oh, another thing I have had a FID for the past 3 years. Applying under Chief Crowley I was expecting to have to take a restricted A licence, but an outright rejection just caught me by complete surprise. So basically I am trying to find out what my options are at this point and which direction to go from here. Any advice would be sincerely appreciated.
Thanks
Dan

You're ONLY option is to hire a lawyer. 3 on this board.

 

[WayneWong]

You're ONLY option is to hire a lawyer. 3 on this board.

Yeah and you have a limited time frame. Get a hold of an atty ASAP. Good luck my friend.

 

[vellnueve]

Get an attorney and file and appeal. You have very little time to do so.

 

[doobie]

I highly recommend talking to a lawyer on the board and appealing it. I've been told that once you are rejected for a license for whatever the reason it is REALLY hard to ever get one anywhere, ever again...but I could be wrong.

I believe even the NH application has a box "Have you ever been denied a firearm permit in any state?"

 

[dwarven1]

Lawyers on NES:

Cross-X = Darius Arbabi, Framingham
Scrivener = Keith Langer, Wrentham
jcohen = Jesse Cohen, Framingham

Yahoo.com's yellow pages will find any and all of these three. Call one of them NOW; do not pass go, do not diddle around - you have a limited time to appeal a rejection and your clock is ticking.


Why are you still reading this?? Get MOVING!!!

 

[strangenh]

I highly recommend talking to a lawyer on the board and appealing it. I've been told that once you are rejected for a license for whatever the reason it is REALLY hard to ever get one anywhere, ever again...but I could be wrong.

I believe even the NH application has a box "Have you ever been denied a firearm permit in any state?"

Right, it does indeed. If even NH is asking that question, surely most states do. The OP would be best served by seeking counsel now and dealing with the issue to ensure he winds up not denied, even if he gets a limited LTC.

Obviously, the best time to have availed himself of legal counsel was before applying.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Right, it does indeed. If even NH is asking that question, surely most states do. The OP would be best served by seeking counsel now and dealing with the issue to ensure he winds up not denied, even if he gets a limited LTC.

Obviously, the best time to have availed himself of legal counsel was before applying.

as sad as this is to say, firearms lawyers should not play as big of a role in our society as they do, especially here in MA. That being said, the three listed all are GREAT ones to talk to and know their stuff.

No one with a clean record should have to talk to a firearms lawyers before applying. That is absurd. Unfortunately, sometimes douchebag chiefs make it necessary.

 

[PistolPete]

Now if he appeals this with a lawyer and there are no issues for his denial can he get the town to pay his legal fees or is he simply out that money?

 

[Radio]

Lawyers on NES:

Cross-X = Darius Arbabi, Framingham
Scrivener = Keith Langer, Wrentham
jcohen = Jesse Cohen, Framingham

Yahoo.com's yellow pages will find any and all of these three. Call one of them NOW; do not pass go, do not diddle around - you have a limited time to appeal a rejection and your clock is ticking.


Why are you still reading this?? Get MOVING!!!

Good advice!

 

[doobie]

Now if he appeals this with a lawyer and there are no issues for his denial can he get the town to pay his legal fees or is he simply out that money?

Can I have some of whatever you are smoking?

 

[Xak]

Just curious, what did you put down as "reason for issuance" on your application, and if you had a meeting with the chief or licensing officer, what did you say when they asked you (that ungodly hoplophobic question) "Why do you need a firearm?"

Get a good attorney. Attorneys are like everything in life that is worth while, you get what you pay for. Spend the money as this incident may diminish your 2nd ammendment rights for life if it is not corrected correctly and soon.

Join GOAL.

Join the NRA.

 

[38specialD]

You should have waited I think a new chief starts this summer???

 

[Raoul Duke]

Do a search for some of Scrivener's posts, then superimpose his more vitriolic responses for what you, left to your own devices, might like to say to the chief.

After a few seconds of contemplation, you'll see that it's time to spend whatever it takes to secure you right. Understand, if you loose it here, you're unlikely to gain it in NH, ME or any other state that asks the dreaded question. "Have you ever been denied in..."

My two cents.

 

[Mass-diver]

What a bummer, not even an offer of a Class A restricted or a Class B? Something sounds a little fishy here. It's my understanding that in Quincy, while they were not giving out any ALPs, they where giving restricted licenses.

Did you met with the gun officer?

 

[DTR]

Thank you everyone for their responses and advice. I contacted an attorney and found out I have 90 days from when the denial letter was sent to appeal. I will probably start on this next week unless something changes. An appeal is not cheap but what choice do I have? Just for the hell of it, I sent an email last night to Quincy's new mayor explaining my situation. Probably nothing will come of it but at this point I have little to lose.
-Xak to answer your questions
I did meet with the woman who works the licensing division when I was fingerprinted and dropped off my application. She is a not a police officer and has no say one way or the other. She did not ask,"Why do you need a firearm".
I have been a member of GOAL and the NRA for the past 3 years.
As for what I put down for reason of issuance, I have a copy of what I sent that I will post if anyone is interested.

 

[pbearperry]

Whatever you do,don't lose the notification that denied you because of not enough reason to have it.The next thing I would do is to get an attorney and take it in front of a Judge or maybe just move.

 

[Scrivener]

I didnt know a license could be denied just because the chief thinks you dont need it.

Haven't read much in your 5 months here, I gather.

 

[doobie]

Haven't read much in your 5 months here, I gather.

He joined at the end of January, so it was 4 months and is a slow reader.

 

[doobie]

Just didnt see that come up before. Luckily the chief in my town is awesome. I just figured that being able to own a weapon was a right, and unless you f***ed up somehow, the worst that would happen is you get a FID card, or a LTC-B.

Isnt not issuing a license for no reason sorta wack? What normally happens in cases like these on appeal? I would assume that the plaintiff would win, since there doesnt seem to be much basis for the denial.

Welcome to Massachusetts where your rights are stripped slowly and painfully one at a time!

Your CLEO could go home tonight and find his wife in bed with another man and go into the office and randomly revoke 50% of all the towns LTCs.

 

[abiffmaster]

Whatever you do,don't lose the notification that denied you because of not enough reason to have it.The next thing I would do is to get an attorney and take it in front of a Judge or maybe just move.

Just moving is not an option at this point as he was already denied. You will have to get this corrected as it will follow you wherever you go unless you take up residency outside of earth's orbit.

 

[M1911]

Just didnt see that come up before. Luckily the chief in my town is awesome. I just figured that being able to own a weapon was a right, and unless you f***ed up somehow, the worst that would happen is you get a FID card, or a LTC-B.

He didn't apply for an FID card. He applied for an LTC A. They could have given him an LTC A, LTC B, or nothing. They gave him nothing. If he wants an FID, he has to apply for one.

Isnt not issuing a license for no reason sorta wack?

That is within the discretion accorded to police chiefs.

What normally happens in cases like these on appeal? I would assume that the plaintiff would win, since there doesnt seem to be much basis for the denial.

Oh my gosh. You do realize that you are in MA, don't you? The judges were all appointed by very liberal politicians.

 

[jdubois]

What normally happens in cases like these on appeal?

Normally, you lose.

 

[dwarven1]

Normally, you lose.

I believe you'll find that not correct. You lose if you contest getting a neutered LTC - however, he's got a good case to contect his rejection.

One hopes that he's smart enough to have already hired Keith, Darius or Jesse.

 

[jcr]

If we lived in a a state of law this would be dispatched with quickly.

By the written MGL a chief can restrict an LTC by whatever means he "deems reasonable". If your license is restricted, you'll never get any chief before any judge who will admit that he thought himself unreasonable.

Also, by law, he many deny you an LTC at his discretion for being an "unsuitable person". When "unsuitable person" law was written here, it pretty much meant Irish -- imo, I suspect that African Americans arond 1910 wouldn't even bother to apply. But being a known drunk or vagrant probably would mark one as unsuitable then, as now.

Moreover, by law, the chief has to put in writing the reason he felt you to be an "unsuitable person". It seems to me that being a person whose reason to have a gun didn't meet up with the chief's idea doesn't fall into the "unsuiable person category.

The district court, unless your are atypically lucky, will probably side with the chief and not explicitly articulate his reason -- primarily because he doesn't have to which is convenient as he wouldn't have one other than the want to "go along" with the chief, and use his chips on something else later.

Court of Appeals will cost more, but likely the only place with a chance for things to get better.

citing a insufficient reason for applying for one.

Any chance we could get a full sentence (or paragraph) quote that gave the reason for the rejection?

 

[jdubois]

I believe you'll find that not correct. You lose if you contest getting a neutered LTC - however, he's got a good case to contect his rejection.

Well, I'd hope so. But the criteria for appeal is "if [the] justice finds that there was no reasonable ground for denying." All the chief has to say is that it did not appear "that the applicant is a suitable person to be issued such license," with the evidence that C 140 S 131 grants them that discretion, and there are your reasonable grounds.

I think you'd have better chances on an appeal in cases such as where you were denied because you had a criminal record, but the records were screwed up and you didn't.

I'd be interested to hear from the lawyers on the general likelihood of appeal success. (Something tells me they're not gonna answer though )

 

[DTR]

Sorry for being vague. "Please be advised that your application for a license to carry (LTC) firearms, pursuant to the provisions of M.G.L.c. 140&131 is hereby: Denied"
"The reason(s) for this denial is: you have not submitted a proper purpose for the request;"

 

[Scrivener]

Just didnt see that come up before. Luckily the chief in my town is awesome. I just figured that being able to own a weapon was a right, and unless you f***ed up somehow, the worst that would happen is you get a FID card, or a LTC-B.

AGAIN, you obviously haven't read much of anything rights-related on this forum.

Which is to say, you haven't read much at all on this forum.

 

[Scrivener]

Just moving is not an option at this point as he was already denied. You will have to get this corrected as it will follow you wherever you go unless you take up residency outside of earth's orbit.

WRONG.

He was denied in ONE town. Period.

While that denial is a matter of record and must be dealt with on ALL subsequent applications, it does not preclude him being licensed in his present town or any other.

The obvious course of action is to apply for an FID. As issuance is NOT discretionary, so long as the applicant doesn't botch the application, he's got the chief boxed in: Issue the FID or stand before a judge and try to defend his denial with NO basis for it.

 

[dwarven1]

The obvious course of action is to apply for an FID. As issuance is NOT discretionary, so long as the applicant doesn't botch the application, he's got the chief boxed in: Issue the FID or stand before a judge and try to defend his denial with NO basis for it.

Why does he need another FID?

Hey guys looking for some advice. Last friday after spending a week in the hospital I received a letter from the Quincy police department The letter said that I had been denied my LTC application citing a insufficient reason for applying for one. Some basic info about me, I am 21, I work as an electrical apprentice and I dont even have a speeding ticket to my name. Oh, another thing I have had a FID for the past 3 years. Applying under Chief Crowley I was expecting to have to take a restricted A licence, but an outright rejection just caught me by complete surprise. So basically I am trying to find out what my options are at this point and which direction to go from here. Any advice would be sincerely appreciated.
Thanks
Dan