Recommend me gun with a similar profile to the Sig P229 Compact

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For the record I personally agree with everyone that a manual safety is not necessary; but even if it limits options, if I can get a good gun that has one, to my mind it doesn't seem like much of a drawback so I'd be happy with it if it gives my wife peace of mind. Based on the suggestions here, and now leaning more toward getting a full-size pistol, the CZ P-09, FNX 9 (the suggestion was 45 Tactical but I would probably lean toward the 9), and HK P30L seem like great options.

I understand the downside that disengaging a manual safety is an extra step to remember if you actually need to use your firearm, but I think a home defense encounter is very unlikely to be a "draw and shoot immediately" scenario – especially with the pistol in a locked box to start with – so it doesn't seem like a huge drawback to me and is something I can train to. But if there are other downsides to manual safeties I am open to hearing them, and will do more research on this question to see what I can find.
 

cathouse01

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something I can train to
This ^^^^. No matter what you get, train with it until your muscle memory does everything for you. And here is my FNX .45 Tactical setup as my home defense handgun:
FNX 45.jpeg
It's got a Vortex Venom red dot, a Viridian X5L Green Laser/Tactical Light and a Kaw Valley linear Comp. The linear comp does nothing for recoil but does direct more of the blast towards the target and away from you. If I lived in a free state it would be replaced with a silencer.
 

Compooky

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The correct answer to the question is “no recommendation” since it sounds like you don’t have any idea what you want. It sounds you plan to only get one full sized gun with a safety and leave it locked up in the home so you and your wife can feel safe. Most people would probably be asking about which TWO guns to get for carry and HD or a single gun that would be good for both.

Just buy whatever you want and let your wife know afterwards. No returns and she’ll most likely have you keep it rather than sell for a loss.
 

Pipedope

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Howdy. I recently got my LTC and am looking to purchase my first handgun strictly for home defense. I went to a gun range to try out a few and the one that felt most comfortable in my hands was the Sig P229 Compact. I guess for Sig “compact” means just a little bit smaller than full-size, which was just right for me as I am not a large man.

I am hoping you fine folks can recommend me a gun with a similar profile to the P229. It may turn out that the P229 is indeed the right gun for me, but it is also one of the most expensive I’ve seen for its size, retailing at $1300. Given that I do not plan to become a hobby shooter I’d prefer to avoid paying for a top-of-the-line model if I can find something similar that is just as reliable but cheaper.

What I like about the P229, as mentioned is its size (overall length 7.4 in) and weight, but also the stock/grip fit my hands very comfortably. It was much more natural to hold compared to the S&W M&P I tried.

I actually don’t have much preference for trigger/action mechanism – DA/SA, SAO, and striker are all fine (just not DAO). I know some hammer enthusiasts say that all striker triggers are mushy, but comparing the trigger pull on the P229 vs the P320 I honestly didn’t notice much difference, certainly not enough to affect my accuracy at a typical home-defense-encounter range. For that reason I was also considering the P320 M-18, which has a similar profile as the P229 Compact at half the cost – but then I read about all these recent negligent discharge lawsuits against the P320 which has made me wary.

So, I turn to the wisdom of this forum in search of a gun with a similar profile to the Sig P229 Compact. My other requirements are:
  • Chambered in 9mm
  • Must have a manual safety (no manual safety simply will not fly with the wife)
  • No grip safety (don’t trust them)
  • If hammer-fired: should have a decocker, or the manual safety should double as a decocker. Although as mentioned I’d be perfectly fine with a striker-fired gun too.
  • Ideally should be easy to mount a laser sight to the rail below the barrel (not looking for laser grips or RDS)
See if you can look at a Sig P938 Legion. It is SAO and small. Just bought one and have 200 rounds through it and love it. I have big hands and still find I can get a very good grip on it. Look in the classified section here, Kaga arms has one for $ 700, good luck.
 

Pipedope

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See if you can look at a Sig P938 Legion. It is SAO and small. Just bought one and have 200 rounds through it and love it. I have big hands and still find I can get a very good grip on it. Look in the classified section here, Kaga arms has one for $ 700, good luck.
If you go to Kaga arms at least you can look& handle it, see if it fits your needs. To buy one and not to have shot one first I wouldn't recommend.
 

Mesatchornug

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You have already received a lot of really great guidance. Some of it may be unclear to you why it's so important.

On the safety topic, your wife's ignorance is causing issues. For her safety, yours, and that of your child, as well as your shared peace of mind, it would be wise for her to get some introductory training. This can be done without ever firing a gun - for example, the NRA Home Firearms Safety course is basically ~4 hours on understanding how to care for and handle firearms so as to not cause unintentional harm. It includes no live fire. In fact, no live ammo is handled in the course of the class. Among other things, you will discuss what a safety is and is not, as well as why a firearm with a safety (generally) cannot be decocked with it activated. There are many folks on this forum who I'm sure could coordinate a class specific to your family's particular needs, if it would help you and your wife make better decisions for your individual situation.

To the topic of owning the firearm for peace of mind, there may be some misunderstanding - but this sounds like talismanic thinking. Having a gun doesn't make you safe; having the knowledge and skills to use the gun in the appropriate circumstances increases your likelihood of success in such situations. This might sound like pedantic quibbling, but the distinction is important. If you're going to own the firearm for the purpose of protecting your loved ones (as opposed to recreational shooting, etc.) it's incumbent on you to seek additional training specific to your needs. If your goal (at least, at present) is only to use this as a home defense firearm, then a class like the NRA's Personal Protection Inside the Home might be a smart next step for you.

Once you start to train with the firearm, understand that the cost of ammo and additional courses over your lifetime will far surpass the difference in the price of your $1300 "enthusiast's gun" or a more "workmanlike" $600 offering. If you're only hoping to own one gun, then the smartest decision (as so many have said) is to try as many as you can find and then "buy once; cry once." If you buy a gun that fits you and that you shoot well, you're more likely to train with it. If you train with it, you'll be more effective. This builds a virtuous cycle. Even if you never take up shooting or collecting as a hobby, you'll be in a better position as a protector. This may mean that the "right" gun for you is an affordable, striker-fired, polymer pistol with no external safeties; or the 229 you were initially drawn to, or any of a number of other firearms, and that's great.

Aside - I referenced NRA training twice in this post. This is not meant as an ad nor to say that the only way is the NRA-way. It happens that I have a couple of their certs, so I'm more fluent in their material than others'. It might be that USCCA or Mass Firearms, or someone else altogether has classes and teaching styles that are better suited to your needs.
 

Rick O'Shea

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Safeties are for new shooters until they learn how to keep fingers off of triggers,... then you realize that a holstered protected trigger is all you need. Wives should agree on firearms in the house,.. not what types are allowed. Guns are just guns. Households with kids are safe as long as you don't give the kid the combo to the safe until he's like 8-10 years old and demonstrates responsibility. These are just my opinions,.,. you do you and good luck. Your going to buy 5 guns these next few years so don't overthink all this crap. Oh,.. and a locked up pistol isn't available for sudden home defense. That's time you may not have. Get a dog or an alarm system for a heads up. You will be amazed at your ability to shoot a VP9,.. that not checking off all your boxes won't matter.
 
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Buck F

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See if you can look at a Sig P938 Legion. It is SAO and small. Just bought one and have 200 rounds through it and love it. I have big hands and still find I can get a very good grip on it. Look in the classified section here, Kaga arms has one for $ 700, good luck.
He's not looking for a micro carry gun and given what he's posted about his other requirements I doubt he's into a SAO hammer fired gun just because it has one manual safety on it.
 

jpdopes

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I would take a hard look at the CZ guns with the Omega trigger. They can be switched to have either a safety if decocker. They come with both- decocker is installed from factory. Super easy to change out. The P01 is very similar in size to the Sig 229.
 
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This question is hard to answer in the world of striker fired pistols. I always carried my S&W 3913 with the safety decocker off. Beretta offers a 92 decocker only Version.

The only "cheap gun" I can think of is the Taurus TH9 series supposedly it's pretty good...but not Mass compliant.

Guns are like tools.. the only other gun I can think of is the SIG P239.... Or a DAK Sig which has some wierd Double action SA style reset while I never experienced the DAK trigger system the Massachusetts State Police had the DAK I think. Sig P226 and didnt like them and switched to M&P 45s. Also there are DAO sigs out there too not to be confused with DAK.

I would say the SIG P239 is your best bet. Keep in mind none police/security people aren't probably ever gonna fire their gun and with MA concealment is key. ..
 

JRT

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The Sig P365 XMacro is possibly the best carry gun available. It’s thin and light, cut for an optic and 17 rounds in the mag. It’s incredible after about 30 days with it I have not found anything not to love.
 

M1911

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This question is hard to answer in the world of striker fired pistols. I always carried my S&W 3913 with the safety decocker off. Beretta offers a 92 decocker only Version.

The only "cheap gun" I can think of is the Taurus TH9 series supposedly it's pretty good...but not Mass compliant.

Guns are like tools.. the only other gun I can think of is the SIG P239.... Or a DAK Sig which has some wierd Double action SA style reset while I never experienced the DAK trigger system the Massachusetts State Police had the DAK I think. Sig P226 and didnt like them and switched to M&P 45s. Also there are DAO sigs out there too not to be confused with DAK.

I would say the SIG P239 is your best bet. Keep in mind none police/security people aren't probably ever gonna fire their gun and with MA concealment is key. ..
I have a P239. I disagree.

He is looking for a home defense gun, not a carry gun, and he is looking for a gun with a manual safety. The P239 doesn’t have a manual safety. It was meant to be compact, for concealed carry. But since he isn’t going to carry it that’s kind of pointless. It also has low capacity (8+1). A larger gun like a 229 or 226 would give him 10+1 (even a smaller gun like a P365 would give him 10+1).
 
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The only "cheap gun" I can think of is the Taurus TH9 series supposedly it's pretty good...but not Mass compliant.
To clarify I don't mind spending $1300 if that's what it takes to get a reliable, high quality home defense pistol. I just wasn't sure if it was necessary to spend that much, especially given that I don't need a connoisseur's gun.

Another thing I'll say is, after doing some more research on grip safeties I am reconsidering my blanket opposition to them. Which would bring Springfield Armory's offerings into the mix. Not to say I would necessarily prefer that over some of the other excellent suggestions I've already received here, but if inventory is limited it is good to have multiple options that meet my needs.
 

kro77

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I have a P239. I disagree.

He is looking for a home defense gun, not a carry gun, and he is looking for a gun with a manual safety. The P239 doesn’t have a manual safety. It was meant to be compact, for concealed carry. But since he isn’t going to carry it that’s kind of pointless. It also has low capacity (8+1). A larger gun like a 229 or 226 would give him 10+1 (even a smaller gun like a P365 would give him 10+1).
The p226 or beretta are also preban guns with preban mags available. I have 13 round p228 mags and I believe p226 was 15, and beretta is 17(?). If not carrying and for home defense the amount of rounds would tip me to one of those two. I believe the berettas are more affordable (no legion, seal tax) than the sigs and they are pretty good out of the box.

I still like p30ls and vp9, but if i was doing strictly HD, and only one gun I would take a hard look at the beretta just on the round count.
 

Mesatchornug

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To clarify I don't mind spending $1300 if that's what it takes to get a reliable, high quality home defense pistol. I just wasn't sure if it was necessary to spend that much, especially given that I don't need a connoisseur's gun.
It's probably worth noting that $1300 isn't that much for a pistol. It's certainly not inexpensive, but it's kind of just the top end of normal. You're not really talking about "connoisseur's guns" until you start looking at twice that (e.g., "entry level" Wilson Combat 1911s start north of $2K).

This is also why buying used is worthwhile. Like cars, there's a reasonable amount of depreciation once it's been owned, let alone fired. Assuming you're looking at something that started as a good product, if it's still in basically stock condition it's likely "good as new" with an acceptable discount.
 
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I used to have a P225A1. Seems like it would be the slimmer 229 you're looking for in a similar profile minus the safety thing. I also like a manual safety but on a DA/SA gun, isn't it already 'safe'? Check out the FNX-9 too if you want hammer with safety. The P30 is great and I carry the normal sized and SK variant all the time.
 

walter62

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easy.....
-Beretta 92 variant like the newer 92X line, compact, full size, centurion, whatever
-Beretta PX4
-HK P30

any of these will leave the P229 in the dust, but none of them replace training
Langdon Tactical does 'work' on some of the Berettas and greatly improves performance. Worth looking at/for.

How exactly does any of them leave the 229 'in the dust' ??
 
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I used to have a P225A1. Seems like it would be the slimmer 229 you're looking for in a similar profile minus the safety thing. I also like a manual safety but on a DA/SA gun, isn't it already 'safe'? Check out the FNX-9 too if you want hammer with safety. The P30 is great and I carry the normal sized and SK variant all the time.
On the FXN-9 and the HK P30L can the hammer be de-cocked while the safety is engaged?

On DA/SA guns I really dislike that initial heavy DA pull, so I am thinking if I do get a DA/SA I would prefer to just cock the hammer and treat it like an SAO. But operating it that way I'd be more comfortable if I can cock the hammer with the safety engaged. I know with some platforms like the Beretta 92, where the safety lever also functions as a decocker, this isn't possible – but wasn't sure about the case for other platforms where the safety is single-purpose.
 
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On the FXN-9 and the HK P30L can the hammer be de-cocked while the safety is engaged?

On DA/SA guns I really dislike that initial heavy DA pull, so I am thinking if I do get a DA/SA I would prefer to just cock the hammer and treat it like an SAO. But operating it that way I'd be more comfortable if I can cock the hammer with the safety engaged. I know with some platforms like the Beretta 92, where the safety lever also functions as a decocker, this isn't possible – but wasn't sure about the case for other platforms where the safety is single-purpose.
Yep, P30 decocker is separate from safety lever. FNX-9, it's all on one control, similar to a Beretta but positioned like a 1911 - you sweep the safety lever all the way down further towards the frame to decock. Up is safe, middle is ready to fire, down is decock.
 

M1911

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On DA/SA guns I really dislike that initial heavy DA pull, so I am thinking if I do get a DA/SA I would prefer to just cock the hammer and treat it like an SAO. But operating it that way I'd be more comfortable if I can cock the hammer with the safety engaged. I know with some platforms like the Beretta 92, where the safety lever also functions as a decocker, this isn't possible – but wasn't sure about the case for other platforms where the safety is single-purpose.
Your lack of experience is showing. You really need to get some hands on experience and good training. You are forming all sorts of opinions based on faulty assumptions. These are not things that you can learn by reading on the internet. You need to do this hands on.

DA triggers out of the box are too heavy on many guns, but they can be fixed. You should not fear the DA trigger pull. Get a trigger job done and you’ll be fine.

My Shadow 2 is strictly a game gun and it has a 6lb DA trigger and a 2lb SA trigger. That’s extreme for a defensive gun, but shows what can be achieved.

You do not want to manually cock a gun as part of a defensive plan. It takes way too long. Learn to pull through the DA trigger pull.
 

cathouse01

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Another thing I'll say is, after doing some more research on grip safeties I am reconsidering my blanket opposition to them. Which would bring Springfield Armory's offerings into the mix. Not to say I would necessarily prefer that over some of the other excellent suggestions I've already received here, but if inventory is limited it is good to have multiple options that meet my needs.
It's good to see that you're being flexible as you increase your knowledge. Just keep researching and take advantage of every chance you have to actually shoot any of the guns you're considering. Given the wide range of guns available (even in a restricted sate like MA) you should find something that meets your needs, particularly if you keep an open mind.

And in line with keeping an open mind (and not to through a wrench in the works), if you are looking at a gun strictly for home defense, you might want to consider a "long" gun. For example, if I could have only one gun and it was primarily for home defense I'd go with my IWI Tavor X95 or my Mossberg SA20 Tactical if I was worried about over penetration. Long guns are a bit harder to keep safe from inquisitive kids while being readily available for emergencies, but there are good solutions out there that address the issue (unfortunately none of the good ones are particularly cheap).
 
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Your lack of experience is showing. You really need to get some hands on experience and good training. You are forming all sorts of opinions based on faulty assumptions. These are not things that you can learn by reading on the internet. You need to do this hands on.

DA triggers out of the box are too heavy on many guns, but they can be fixed. You should not fear the DA trigger pull. Get a trigger job done and you’ll be fine.

My Shadow 2 is strictly a game gun and it has a 6lb DA trigger and a 2lb SA trigger. That’s extreme for a defensive gun, but shows what can be achieved.

You do not want to manually cock a gun as part of a defensive plan. It takes way too long. Learn to pull through the DA trigger pull.
My LTC class instructor man said never to modify a trigger weight on a gun you plan to use in defense cause the DA would bury you for being "trigger happy" to kill and a gun nut to want to lighten a factory designed safe trigger weight. Esp in a loony blue state court system. How much merit is there?
 

Buck F

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My LTC class instructor man said never to modify a trigger weight on a gun you plan to use in defense cause the DA would bury you for being "trigger happy" to kill and a gun nut to want to lighten a factory designed safe trigger weight. Esp in a loony blue state court system. How much merit is there?
None. There are other reasons you may not want to modify a DA trigger on a homepro/carry gun, but that shouldn't be one of them.
 

Mesatchornug

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None. There are other reasons you may not want to modify a DA trigger on a homepro/carry gun, but that shouldn't be one of them.
Right. In the parlance of our often-imitated, never-replicated @drgrant, that's just Ayoob-glue sniffing talk.

That is, Mas Ayoob, who is a wealth of knowledge and experience, has been offering that guidance for decades. Some people recognize he's a great resource; others see him as the ultimate authority on these topics.

Is it an interesting idea to think about? Sure.
Has it actually happened to people? Probably? I haven't taken his class, but my understanding is that he's not taken to inventing things from whole cloth.

In a world where concealed carry is increasing in public acceptance, and where "Duty and Carry" kits are readily available online, how much sense is there to carry that worry forward from the 80s? Each of us needs to judge for ourselves.

We'll leave the debate over Punisher logos, etc., for another time.
 

M1911

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My LTC class instructor man said never to modify a trigger weight on a gun you plan to use in defense cause the DA would bury you for being "trigger happy" to kill and a gun nut to want to lighten a factory designed safe trigger weight. Esp in a loony blue state court system. How much merit is there?
That’s up for debate. I “modify“ the trigger of just about every gun. On a Glock I might install a minus connector and do a 25 cent trigger job, or install an Apex trigger. On a 1911 or a S&W revolver I have a good gunsmith do a trigger job. On my Shadow 2 I installed a Spring kit from either CZ Custom or Cajun (can’t remember which).

I probably wouldn’t use my Shadow 2 for defensive purposes as the trigger is quite light.

I know other folks who keep a carry gun strictly stock.
 
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