Recoil Spring Reduction for Glock 17's, Any Reliability Issues?

[Both_Barrels_Blazing]

My gunsmith was advising on reducing my Gen4 G17/34 recoil springs to 11lbs for competition, and he said to also use 147gr ammunition along with the lower powered spring. That has to do with making the minimums for USPSA, which I planning to start shooting in the near future. I'd just be using 124gr ball ammo for competition for now, so if 13-15lbs would make more sense let me know.

Other question I have is this: would it be wise to reduce down the recoil spring strength on my SHTF/end of the world kit Glock 17's? It is smarter to keep the factory 17lbs spring in there? Will something like a 13-15lbs cause issues with cycling and reliability, especially using more commonly available loads like varying JHP/FMJ 115gr/124gr factory ammo loads? Figure that's what I own/shoot and that's what is most prevalent out there.

 

[Mudflap621]

I can’t help u with comp gun but I’d leave the shtf Glock alone unless it’s having issues.

 

[drgrant]

My gunsmith was advising on reducing my Gen4 G17/34 recoil springs to 11lbs for competition, and he said to also use 147gr ammunition along with the lower powered spring. That has to do with making the minimums for USPSA, which I planning to start shooting in the near future. I'd just be using 124gr ball ammo for competition for now, so if 13-15lbs would make more sense let me know.

Other question I have is this: would it be wise to reduce down the recoil spring strength on my SHTF/end of the world kit Glock 17's? It is smarter to keep the factory 17lbs spring in there? Will something like a 13-15lbs cause issues with cycling and reliability, especially using more commonly available loads like varying JHP/FMJ 115gr/124gr factory ammo loads? Figure that's what I own/shoot and that's what is most prevalent out there.

Just don't. It's f***ing stupid, and nearly every glock iv e ever seen f*** up on a line had either underpowered firing pin or recoil springs. The gains you're going to get out of the trigger being 1-2 lbs better (vs say a factory minus connector with a polished or upgraded trigger bar) in production are negligible. If you're going to shoot production in USPSA you're going to f*** up enough when you start to the point where 80% of your errors are going to have little or nothing to do with how heavy your trigger is.

 

[DW357]

Also it depends on the type/brand of 147 gr ammo. Most factory 147 gr is still going to be loaded fairly warm unless you get some of that Federal syntech 150 gr ammo which is advertised to be 130ish power factory if I recall. Other factory 147 gr ammo will be 145+ PF.

 

[Larry Gentile]

My Glock 34 Comp. that i just built, i was running a 15lbs recoil spring with Zev full Pro internal kit. Being a new build and some tight tolerances on non glock parts, i was having a issue with the gun going back into battery after i fire. I switched to the stock 17lbs spring rate and now all is good. On my P80 G17build with Brownell's slide I run 4.5lb fire pin spring, 15lbs recoil spring and lightened safety spring all with APEX full trigger kit (not yet installed in the pic) . Gun is broken in nicely and will shoot the cheapest steel wolf ammo perfectly. Both are just range toys though.


So for recoil springs, here is the thought process. The heaver the spring the quicker your gun will cycle and it will handle recoil better. This is good for higher power loads /reloads. But too high of a spring rate will cause you to stove pipe because you are cycling to fast.

Lower spring rates will help ejection issues, especially with cheap, under powered ammo. One of the reasons I went with a 15lbs on my P80 build is the Blazer 9mm i was shooting would stove pipe with the 17lbs spring. When I tried the Hornady CD Ammo it cycled perfectly. When I went back to the Blazer crap it would stove pipe, I switch to a 15lbs recoil spring and now it shoots amazing with anything i trow in it. i'm shooting Wolf steel 9mm and it cycle perfect through over 500rnds.

So every gun is different and if you are going to tune it in any way I would get something like this that you can buy 2-3 different springs and switch them out easily. Or you could just be boring and stay stock.

 

[TrashcanDan]

My gunsmith was advising on reducing my Gen4 G17/34 recoil springs to 11lbs for competition, and he said to also use 147gr ammunition along with the lower powered spring. That has to do with making the minimums for USPSA, which I planning to start shooting in the near future. I'd just be using 124gr ball ammo for competition for now, so if 13-15lbs would make more sense let me know.

Other question I have is this: would it be wise to reduce down the recoil spring strength on my SHTF/end of the world kit Glock 17's? It is smarter to keep the factory 17lbs spring in there? Will something like a 13-15lbs cause issues with cycling and reliability, especially using more commonly available loads like varying JHP/FMJ 115gr/124gr factory ammo loads? Figure that's what I own/shoot and that's what is most prevalent out there.

1- Assuming production class, you'll need a minimum of 130 PF.
If you're reloading- the trend is to go as heavy as you can with a load, 147 gr or better. 160-165's an option, but would it chamber? The lighter the projo, the more muzzle rise and it affects follow up shots. Heavy's are supposed to be softer.
If you're not reloading, don't worry about it. Out of the box jacketed 124's/ 125's will run just fine. If it runs fine with factory stuff, leave it.

2- Set a case of ammo aside for your shtf gun. The last thing you want it a failure to feed or cycle or fire. 1 gun for the shooting games, 1 gun and ammo for your end of the world scenario.

 

[Both_Barrels_Blazing]

Thanks all, will keep things stock on the SHTF kit and will keep the toys separated. I'll play around with a couple different springs/ammo combos for USPSA; you guys all brought up great points, and it is very true that no two guns perform the same and work with the same parts/ammo/etc. I plan to shoot limited and open because I like this new world of gun customization

Have a blessed and safe Independence Day, may God continue to bless you all, your families, and America!

 

[92G]

on any striker pistol, the RSA keeps the pistol in battery while pressing the trigger. don't F with that.
on a TDA / hammer pistol, the RSA is independent of the firing mechanism so it's less important.

 

[TrashcanDan]

I plan to shoot limited and open because I like this new world of gun customization

You may get a slight advantage running limited 10 over limited. Mag size is the only real difference. You can still have magwells, and one or two other things that sets it apart from production.

 

[dcmdon]

The biggest issue to manage is the fact that the recoil spring is what resists the slides' movment to the rear when you pull the trigger and press against the striker spring.

So if you reduce recoil spring and don't do the same for the striker spring, its possible to pull the gun out of battery.

As long as you reduce both you are fine.

The only benefit of s lower power recoil spring is the ability to run the gun with lower power ammunition. Whhich can be very useful for a gamer gun.

A reduced power recoil spring with reduced powered reloads would work great with a reduced power striker spring if the reloads used federal primers which are known to be "soft".

 

[dcmdon]

The lower limit of recoil spring strength is really the point at which the spring is too weak to reliably strip a round off the mag and push the slide into battery reliably.

On a stock Glock with a stock barrel, it doesn't take much.

On a custom 1911, it can take a lot. I had a nighthawk custom that wouldn't close on anything less than a 13 lb recoil spring.
After 10,000 rounds I could use a 11 lb spring.

 

[allen-1]

I shot a match yesterday, and one of the guys on my squad was having light primer strikes, (so light they weren't igniting). He was running a Zev-Tech trigger and a lightened zev-tech firing pin, using bullets he'd loaded himself with CCI primers.

I lent him a stock G17 firing pin and spring assembly and his comp gun ran fine after that. After the match he put his firing pin back in, and tried some other ammo he had which were loaded with Federal primers. (CCI are hard, Win are middle, and Federal are soft - as a rule of thumb). His gun ran that ammo just fine.

He had some frustration, which went away when we swapped out the firing pin, (of course that first stage was hosed for him) - and that's fine IN COMPETITION.

My carry guns are pretty much stock, and they've been tested with the carry ammo that's in them. Sights, polished triggers, extended slide releases - I make those changes - but the fundamentals are left alone because I NEED my carry guns to function. My competition guns are a little more tweaked, because if they fail - I'm not going to die.

147 grain bullets are nice for IDPA/USPSA , (in 9mm), because you can drop the gunpowder and reduce recoil while still making power factor. On the other hand, until you get to a certain level, it really isn't going to make much difference. You have to move to the target quickly and shoot it accurately and quickly. Focusing on minutiae before you can do that is kinda pointless.

 

[dcmdon]

Yup.

My competition glocks just have a Glock 3.5/4.5 lb connector and a fluff and buff. I combine this with 3 or 3.5 lb striker spring (stock is 5.5 lb) and the trigger is great for a practical shooting gun with federal primers. You really don't need anything fancier.

A lot of the gain from these $150 trigger kits is from a lighter striker spring. You can get that for $25 with a spring from Wolffe springs ($5) and a reduced weight glock connector that comes standard in a G34.

 

[Broc]

My gunsmith was advising on reducing my Gen4 G17/34 recoil springs to 11lbs for competition, and he said to also use 147gr ammunition along with the lower powered spring. That has to do with making the minimums for USPSA, which I planning to start shooting in the near future. I'd just be using 124gr ball ammo for competition for now, so if 13-15lbs would make more sense let me know.

Other question I have is this: would it be wise to reduce down the recoil spring strength on my SHTF/end of the world kit Glock 17's? It is smarter to keep the factory 17lbs spring in there? Will something like a 13-15lbs cause issues with cycling and reliability, especially using more commonly available loads like varying JHP/FMJ 115gr/124gr factory ammo loads? Figure that's what I own/shoot and that's what is most prevalent out there.

Only one way to know. Test fire it with the primers you will use in competition.

Keep the old spring, if you get light strikes, replace it. It is pretty simple.

As far as a SHTF gun, I wouldn't recommend altering something that your life will depend on. You dont know which ammo you will be using and how hard the primers will be. There is a reason why a lot of spring kits come with "carry" and "competition" springs.

 

[beaker]

For an SHTF Glock, only stock internals with the exception of Overwatch triggers which I have in most of my Glocks. I have two custom Glock slides, but they both have Glock factory internals with the exception of the barrel.

 

[ToddDubya]

Just don't. It's f***ing stupid, and nearly every glock iv e ever seen f*** up on a line had either underpowered firing pin or recoil springs. The gains you're going to get out of the trigger being 1-2 lbs better (vs say a factory minus connector with a polished or upgraded trigger bar) in production are negligible. If you're going to shoot production in USPSA you're going to f*** up enough when you start to the point where 80% of your errors are going to have little or nothing to do with how heavy your trigger is.

On the plus side, it'll let you miss faster in the meantime.

 

[E.Stoner]

Lol there is no reason to f*** with glock springs. I run a Gen 5 G34 MOS with an apex trigger and only had started having problems with failure to feeds and going into battery after well over 9K of ammo. I thought it was the recoil spring spring getting weaker, but then I (fully) cleaned it and it ran like a champ again. No problems since. My Gen 4 G34 has 15k+ with no problems.
My carry glock 19 is bone stock on the inside.

 

[Deleted member 12999]

Every tactic is a trade off... you want a gun to be on bleeding edge of performance? Expect problems. I prefer reliability.

 

[drgrant]

I shot a match yesterday, and one of the guys on my squad was having light primer strikes, (so light they weren't igniting). He was running a Zev-Tech trigger and a lightened zev-tech firing pin, using bullets he'd loaded himself with CCI primers.

I lent him a stock G17 firing pin and spring assembly and his comp gun ran fine after that. After the match he put his firing pin back in, and tried some other ammo he had which were loaded with Federal primers. (CCI are hard, Win are middle, and Federal are soft - as a rule of thumb). His gun ran that ammo just fine.

He had some frustration, which went away when we swapped out the firing pin, (of course that first stage was hosed for him) - and that's fine IN COMPETITION.

I'm going to be that guy. "No, it's not". Getting hosed during a match because your gun broke, sucks. Yeah, it's not life or death, but even in simp games like bowling pins, having a f***ed up gun sucks. At least in pins if you bring a backup you can ditch the broken gun and try again on the next relay. On any kind of multi stage match , it will ruin your day, unless its one of those formats where they take all the stages and toss the worst time on every shooter. There's no bigger punch in the dick, so to speak, in competition, than being "that guy" whose gun dies in the middle of a match. I lost track of the number of "ringer" guys who I beat in bowling pins, for example, that would have easily beaten me if their gun didn't choke/die.

 

[drgrant]

Every tactic is a trade off... you want a gun to be on bleeding edge of performance? Expect problems. I prefer reliability.

IMHO there are a certain amount of gains that are "free" but the line in the sand is hard, and cruel, and when you cross it (changing out firing pin springs crosses it on a glock) you're pretty much going from being "perfectly fine" to "smoking a cigarette while filling gasoline cans" It's only a matter of when, not if, things will go to shit on you.

 

[EddieZoom]

Lol there is no reason to f*** with glock springs. I run a Gen 5 G34 MOS with an apex trigger and only had started having problems with failure to feeds and going into battery after well over 9K of ammo. I thought it was the recoil spring spring getting weaker, but then I (fully) cleaned it and it ran like a champ again. No problems since. My Gen 4 G34 has 15k+ with no problems.
My carry glock 19 is bone stock on the inside.

Every single problem I have ever had with a glock (17/21/23) has been because I swapped out springs looking to make the Glock trigger "un-glock" like.

If chasing competition mods, check out Vanek drop in triggers. If personal protection, leave it alone....it is after all....Perfection ;-)

 

[TrashcanDan]

, using bullets he'd loaded himself with CCI primers.

Boy did I learn that the hard way!

Took one of my revolvers down to about 8 pounds d.a., never bought cci after that.

 

[dcmdon]

I'm going to be that guy. "No, it's not". Getting hosed during a match because your gun broke, sucks. Yeah, it's not life or death, but even in simp games like bowling pins, having a f***ed up gun sucks. At least in pins if you bring a backup you can ditch the broken gun and try again on the next relay. On any kind of multi stage match , it will ruin your day, unless its one of those formats where they take all the stages and toss the worst time on every shooter. There's no bigger punch in the dick, so to speak, in competition, than being "that guy" whose gun dies in the middle of a match. I lost track of the number of "ringer" guys who I beat in bowling pins, for example, that would have easily beaten me if their gun didn't choke/die.

This is called being prepared. Develop a load that will run in a particular gun configured the way you intend to shoot it.
Its very rare for Glocks to actually break during a match. Most of the time when people are having trouble its some factor of their ammo not working with the gun.

Both my wife and I run essentially stock Glock 34s with just a fluff and buff and ~3lb striker springs.

I use Federal primers. I clean the striker channel before any matches. I plunk test my match ammo in an EGW chamber checker and also check the primers to make sure they are recessed just a bit. My guns run ABSOLUTELY 100% in matches. I can't remember the last time my wife or I had any kind of malfunction in a match. To that end, when she first got her 34, I found that because she doesn't grip the gun as firmly as I do, I need to run .2 gr more powder in her loads for the gun to lock back on an empty mag.

Now that I know this, I don't change anything. Her gun hasn't been touched other than to clean it in 5 years.

 

[dcmdon]

Lol there is no reason to f*** with glock springs.

My IDPA gun's trigger great with nothing more than a fluff and buff and a reduced power striker spring. For a game gun, there is plenty of reason to play with springs. Just do it smartly and only shoot matches with proven combinations.

I agree with you 100% about keeping carry Glocks stock. The only thing I do is polish some bearing surfaces and install a Glock brand G34 "-" connector.

 

[dcmdon]

Every single problem I have ever had with a glock (17/21/23) has been because I swapped out springs looking to make the Glock trigger "un-glock" like.

If chasing competition mods, check out Vanek drop in triggers. If personal protection, leave it alone....it is after all....Perfection ;-)

The funny thing is that there is nothing wrong with the Glock mushiness when you are trying to shoot quickly. The old standards of minimal creep, no overtravel, crisp break don't apply when you are trying to shoot fast with practical accuracy. Smoothness is the key here. Smooth and mushy can be very fast.

 

[Deleted member 12999]

Put OC trigger on it. Adjust pretravel. Add dawsons and framework. Thats enough to keep up with masters in both sports if you are good.

 

[Len-2A Training]

My Wife owns a G17 and due to hand problems she had trouble racking the slide. So I called Glock tech support for some advice and on their advice, I changed out the recoil spring and rod to a poundage that was recommended (long time ago, don't recall the #). It now sports a solid SS rod and the separate spring (non-captive). We've never had a failure with it and I use it in training plus a few non-MA folks ran it thru NRA PPIH and PPOH without a hitch. We don't compete, so I can't say that it would or wouldn't work under that kind of stress. For us it is strictly a range gun.

 

[drgrant]

This is called being prepared. Develop a load that will run in a particular gun configured the way you intend to shoot it.
Its very rare for Glocks to actually break during a match. Most of the time when people are having trouble its some factor of their ammo not working with the gun.

Both my wife and I run essentially stock Glock 34s with just a fluff and buff and ~3lb striker springs.

I use Federal primers. I clean the striker channel before any matches. I plunk test my match ammo in an EGW chamber checker and also check the primers to make sure they are recessed just a bit. My guns run ABSOLUTELY 100% in matches. I can't remember the last time my wife or I had any kind of malfunction in a match. To that end, when she first got her 34, I found that because she doesn't grip the gun as firmly as I do, I need to run .2 gr more powder in her loads for the gun to lock back on an empty mag.

Now that I know this, I don't change anything. Her gun hasn't been touched other than to clean it in 5 years.

Too much of a pain in the ass for far too little benefit. I prefer that my guns will touch off anything at any time and stay reliable. Even my CZ Shadow with the reduced power springs in it is still capable of setting off all commercial ammunition, cci primers, wolf, etc, you name it. A gun that requires special primers is a broken gun.

 

[oldguy47]

Stock Glock. Never a problem. Ain't brpke, don't fix it. my $.02.

 

[dcmdon]

Too much of a pain in the ass for far too little benefit. I prefer that my guns will touch off anything at any time and stay reliable. Even my CZ Shadow with the reduced power springs in it is still capable of setting off all commercial ammunition, cci primers, wolf, etc, you name it. A gun that requires special primers is a broken gun.

And that's fine. I like fiddling. Reloading has become a hobby unto itself for me.

I've also got plenty of "tool" glocks that are stock except for a fluff and buff and a "-" Glock connector.

One piece of info that not everyone may know. Some aftermarket connectors release the striker before it is pulled as far to the rear as a stock connector will pull it. So some aftermarket connectors can result in light strikes even with a stock striker spring. This is why any glock you will be defending yourself with should have a stock connector or one that is expressly marketed by a reputable company as appropriate for defensive use.

I've found that a polished stock "-" connector is all I need.