RANT: Let me shoot your gun.

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So this may be a gross overreaction as I am still trying to figure out the etiquette on FTF gun sales, but I have a gun for sale and I got a PM from someone asking to shoot the gun beforehand. Now I would have no problem if it was a green memeber or someone with a lot of posts as I am all for keeping it in the community and sharing the love of the shooting sport, but this person had 0 posts and joined in May. I mentioned as such and then I get a snarky response about going to a dealer. Am I in the wrong here that allowing someone who has 0 posts to test a gun before buying it?

The gun goes bang when you pull the trigger and bullets go where you aim it. Unless you are a member of this community there is no way in hell I am letting you test out my gun.
 
Yep I'm definitely with you on this one. If it's someone you know personally I would be more flexible, but you never know. As the previous post says it's your gun and your rules.

ETA: Only about [angry] out of [angry] [angry] [angry] [angry] [angry]
 
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Like JRyan said, your gun, your rules. Does the 0 poster think he's going to go to a dealer and the dealer is going to let him test out guns? I might ask to try a used gun first if it was something I was unsure about and had never fired one before, but I would make that clear to the seller up front and I certainly wouldn't expect the seller to let me.
 
I'd be wary about it as well, and I would have also said no for the same reasons. It's one thing if it's a group shoot with green members and their guests, or somebody who's well known here and has been around for a while. You gotta play it safe, though. This is the internet, after all.
 
I feel ya - I wouldn't be comfortable letting someone unknown/without references shoot my gun before buying it. Certainly someone who just joined, with 0 posts, sorry. I'd happily sell you the gun, but I won't hand it over to you.

And yes, your gun, your rules. No shooting prior to sale is reasonable, I've seen that a bunch. No place for his snarky remark, clearly HE (not you) is clueless re sales etiquette.

He can go [crying]
 
So this may be a gross overreaction as I am still trying to figure out the etiquette on FTF gun sales, but I have a gun for sale and I got a PM from someone asking to shoot the gun beforehand. Now I would have no problem if it was a green memeber or someone with a lot of posts as I am all for keeping it in the community and sharing the love of the shooting sport, but this person had 0 posts and joined in May. I mentioned as such and then I get a snarky response about going to a dealer. Am I in the wrong here that allowing someone who has 0 posts to test a gun before buying it?

The gun goes bang when you pull the trigger and bullets go where you aim it. Unless you are a member of this community there is no way in hell I am letting you test out my gun.

It's up to you, the seller, to decide. If you get a lot of these you might want to modify your ad. EG: "You either want it or you don't. at this price it is what it is".

The biggest part of FTF etiquette is laying out all your cards on the table up front WRT your expectations, etc. Tire kicking chuckleheads, people trying to rig illegal sales, etc, will all avoid you if you write your ad correctly, and you'll still sell your gun(s) to decent people with minimal hassle.

FWIW I've done test firings with people on a few occasions without issue, but I never explicitly state that up front. I only allow it if I get a good vibe from the buyer, or its someone I already know.

-Mike
 
One possible compromise would be to take the gun to the range and have a buddy take some video of you shooting the gun. At the very least that will show the potential buyer that the gun is fully functional without you having to take the risk of handing a complete stranger a loaded gun.
 
this is kind of a case-by-case thing for me. if i know you? bring your own damn ammo and fire away! if i don't know you i'll do the sniff tests described above, if you're cool then fire away.

again once more: your gun, your rules.
 
^this is a pretty cool idea

Yeah, but then you'll get some guy that wants to know how it feels, wants to field strip it (but doesn't know how), wants to oil it up like a jello wrestler, spend the night with it or some god-damn thing or another. I'm exaggerating, obviously, because all of my FTF deals have gone great. But I also don't think I've done one with a non-green member.
 
And if he is insisting on firing it and you are not comfortable with it (and you are meeting at a range) you just shoot it to show him it is in working order and he can buy it or not. He saw you use it and knows it works so the only other reason he would "need" to shoot it is to see how it feels and if he likes it or not, but that should have been done BEFORE he decided he was going to buy one.
 
I don't know... I agree your gun, your rules.

BUT you are assuming just because the guy doesn't post here he is a dork. There are LOTS of pretty cool people that don't post here. I would tend to cautiously think he's ok and have him prove himself a dork. I wouldn't be against talking with him on the phone, and if no bad vibes, then set up a range meeting.
 
Why would you buy a gun without firing it?

I can understand wanting to discourage 'tire kickers' but why would you expect a relative stranger to hand over $ without the opportunity to verify that the gun works?

Would you buy a used car in a private sale without taking it out for a test drive? If the answer is no I've got a few cars I'd like to sell 'as-is'.

In Regards to 'handing a stranger a loaded gun': How long do you think it would take him to load it after you sold it to him? What are you going to do? Take his money and then throw the gun into the bushes while you make a dash for your car? What makes you think he isn't carrying another gun?

All terms should be discussed prior to the exchange. Proving that the gun works is something that should be discussed along with Time, place, attendees, who supplies the test ammo, etc.
 
Your gun and sale, so obviously it's up to you the parameters.

One thing I would mention is that post count or green membership doesn't necessarily make someone okay. Sure, you might have a sense of their online personality and their willingness to pay $21 for a membership, but that doesn't amount to much. As has been mentioned a bunch, the AGs office has people snooping around the site.
 
let him go to the dealer.....pay more and still not get to test drive it. When I meet someone at a range for a sale unless its a unfired gun I will shoot it for their pleasure of seeing it function
 
You are not in the wrong. Also, your gun, your rules.

The old man that lived down the street wanted to try out another neighbors shotgun before he bought it. Great guy, stopped to talk to everyone when he was doing his walks around the block and stuff. They took a walk down the high tension lines at the end of the road to try it out. Turns out the old man was very depressed and wasn't really looking to buy the gun. Just use it, once.
Never going to forget that, happened when I was a kid.
 
Handing a stranger a loaded gun is always a worrisome thing. As a Pistol Instructor and Coach, I do this a lot. Here are some thoughts on how I do it with a newbie. And I treat everyone like a newbie unless they give me very good reason to believe otherwise.

I hand them the gun by grasping the barrel/action from above, so the grip is available to them. I hold it in front of them, with the barrel pointed down-range, and let them get a comfortable grip. Before I let go, we have an explicit verbal communication where they confirm that they have it. And I stand ready to instantly take it back, if necessary.

Keep in mind that taking a gun in hand for the first time can be a very emotional experience for some folks. I've worked with women who have been battered/abused/raped/etc. The act of holding a gun can be a huge emotional step in someone empowering themselves to protect themselves. It can open emotional floodgates. So be prepared for them to shake, sob, collapse, etc. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Just take the gun back, support them, and pick up where you left off once they collect themselves. But be prepared.

Firing the first shot can have similar emotional impact. It's not hard to cope with this if you're prepared for the possibility. Just take control of the gun while they pull themselves together.

First, have them dry-fire. Use a snap cap if your gun can't be dry-fired without damage. During this stage, you're checking their grip, stance, finger outside trigger guard, and most important of all, their muzzle awareness. You're also getting them accustomed to the fact that you will be standing at their elbow whenever they're holding a gun. I usually start with a gun-shaped non-gun, but an empty gun can serve if you don't have non-guns available.

Second, load one round and have them fire that. Some people freak out after the gun goes off. Freaking out can range from dropping the gun, to throwing the gun, to emotional collapse, to pointing the gun at your navel while saying "That was so cool!!" with their finger on the trigger. I've seen all these things happen. If they're going to freak out, better they do it with an empty gun. So I load one round and let them fire that.

I stand at their elbow like an IPSC RO, but without the timer. My focus is on the muzzle first, and I stand ready to grab the gun if the muzzle looks like it might wander. If necessary, I grab the gun by putting my left hand over the top of the barrel/action. Their hands will be on the grip, so the top of the gun is available for you to grab. My left hand grabs the top of the gun, and that is nearly always enough. If I encounter resistance to my taking control of the gun, my right arm comes under their left arm, followed by my shoulder and I step between them and the gun, boxing them out while I control the gun with both hands. I've never had to use that maneuver, but I've practiced it.

After they've fired one round without incident, we move on to loading more rounds. We might do one round several times. At this stage, I trust them not to freak out. It takes a long time for me to trust someone's muzzle awareness. They get used to me at their elbow.

When I buy a gun, I ask permission to dry-fire and field strip it. If I were the seller, I'd include a field-stripping and lubrication lesson in the transaction. As a buyer, I expect to be able to return it within a few days if shooting it reveals functional problems. All of this presumes the buyer has demonstrated they have the proper paperwork to legally buy the gun. (LTC in Mass.)

FWIW,
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So just a dumb question - say I bought your gun, and when I pulled the trigger it didn't go boom. Then what? You prepared to fix it? (Not you directly, but figuratively.)

That could be what is going on in the potential buyer's mind.

Personally, this is why I don't like the idea of FTF here in MA. (I don't know enough shooters that I can buy from.) Someone will think I'm an ahole for wanting to kick the tires before making the transaction.
 
Keep in mind that taking a gun in hand for the first time can be a very emotional experience for some folks. I've worked with women who have been battered/abused/raped/etc. The act of holding a gun can be a huge emotional step in someone empowering themselves to protect themselves. It can open emotional floodgates. So be prepared for them to shake, sob, collapse, etc. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Just take the gun back, support them, and pick up where you left off once they collect themselves. But be prepared.

If someone I'm selling a gun to, breaks down and starts Sobbing and shaking. I'll tell them to get back in their Subaru and go back to starbuck
 
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