There is a reason that the widely used FBI protocal for ammunition testing uses ballistic gel. No, it isn't a human body, but we can't test ammunition on human subjects.I'll keep that in mind the next time a naked blob of jello attacks me.
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Questions on defense v. over penetration
- Thread starter ridleyman
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Sounds like āgood enough for the troopsā mind set run wild in the civ world where uhhh the backstop matters and you are fully accountable
walter62
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I'm plenty familiar with it. It's so 1990s. If you want to see
This I would believe in if they apply an additional 4" layer of fat.
Full Bodies
The most Advanced Ballistic Target testing. Models are used to accurately represent blunt force trauma, stabbing wounds, ballistics wounds. Great for Military testing, Court Cases, Law enforcement, Television and Film.
ballisticdummylab.com
Have you seen what birdshot does at close range?
What do you mean "Get an AR" if penetration is a concern. The article on Jose Guerrera mentioned that 55gr. FMJ went through the front of his house and lodged in the back cinderblock wall.
Nah, you need Paul Harrell's "Meat Target"!
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Says who? Just call yourself Al Capone on February 14th.
Hey, I represent that remark!
Anything that is worth using for SD will potentially overpenetrate. It's literally that simple. The amount of overthinking people do about this is f****** maddening to the point where it makes my face melt a little bit every time I hear it. People who get hung up on this are basically just punching themselves in the dick in the long game.
View: https://youtu.be/OANob2HpS4o?t=7
View: https://youtu.be/OANob2HpS4o?t=7
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Odd choice? 223/556 will go through walls.
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Penetration discussion will go on for infinity, it even shows has more longevity than snow tires.
fencer
NES Member
Not worried at all about over penetration, and not worried about the neighbors because they are far enough away.
My house is 40' long and 30' wide. Any shooting will almost definitely be inside 25 feet. I'm pretty confident in my ability at that range, and I wouldn't pull the trigger if I wasn't.
45 JHP through a meat popsicle and two layers of sheet rock will have very little energy left.
The most effective counter measure to over penetration, is to make sure the projectile passes through a bad guy before it encounters walls, doors or windows.
My house is 40' long and 30' wide. Any shooting will almost definitely be inside 25 feet. I'm pretty confident in my ability at that range, and I wouldn't pull the trigger if I wasn't.
45 JHP through a meat popsicle and two layers of sheet rock will have very little energy left.
The most effective counter measure to over penetration, is to make sure the projectile passes through a bad guy before it encounters walls, doors or windows.
I was trying to search for the words to respond to OP but then realized this is what I wanted to say! Most people will be chitinā a brick during a home invasion and all those plans will go way different. Know your gun. Know your target. Use good ammo. And leave it at that.
Dennis in MA
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Oh I'm not saying I agree.
His issue was that with clothed individuals, a JHP may not penetrate enough to get the job done. And over penetration, in his expert opinion, was not a huge factor.
I've never carried ball ammo in a carry gun. Ever. I'll take a 2" hole 1.5x wider than the caliber versus a 20" hole the same width as the caliber every time.
Maybe that made sense 20 years ago, but JHP design has improved greatly. And the FBI protocol tests include layers of clothing in front of the gel.
Dennis in MA
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I don't think JHP tech has come THAT far in 20 years. He was the only one that had that opinion in my class. I think even the "junior" instructor - gosh, teh rifle guy. . . . . older. . . . . he quietly did not agree.
I think it has. There has been a big improvement from Hydrashok to HST.
In God We Trust
NES Member
Do they still make those Glazer safety slugs? Were those just a gimmick? I knew a guy many years ago that carried them in his 10mm, but he was kind of a tool so I will let the experts weigh in.
I do recall they were designed to fragment when they hit something hard so as not to go through walls or whatever.
I do recall they were designed to fragment when they hit something hard so as not to go through walls or whatever.
MaverickNH
NES Member
If youāre beneath the nuclear reactor cooling system, better switch to flamethrowers only. Otherwise, JHP.
Security personnel in areas with critical equipment often use frangible ammunition, not to prevent accidental killing of others by over penetration or ricocheting bullets, but to not shoot up the critical equipment.
Security personnel in areas with critical equipment often use frangible ammunition, not to prevent accidental killing of others by over penetration or ricocheting bullets, but to not shoot up the critical equipment.
Buy a couple cases of CCI 22LR Stingers. Practice a LOT. Wear GoPro and shoot perps in nads. Make bank on YouTube.
Jokes aside, it's good that this discussion comes up every blue moon. Hadn't heard a good recommendation for 00 buckshot.
![[thumbsup]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/044.gif "Thumbs Up [thumbsup]")
Jokes aside, it's good that this discussion comes up every blue moon. Hadn't heard a good recommendation for 00 buckshot.
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For inside the house, I don't see any benefit. Outside all bets are off and just maybe use slugs
Buckshot Patterning in a Short-Barreled Shotgun
Written by: Greg Ellifritz There are a lot of myths when it comes to using a shotgun for home defense. Most of those myths center on the idea that the buckshot pattern is a
www.activeresponsetraining.net
strangenh
NES Member
True, but still shown to go through 4 layers of drywall, so 2 home walls, basically, at least.
The Box O' Truth #14 - Rifles, Shotguns, and Walls
In our last tests shooting walls, we tried to line up 4 walls that were 2 feet by 2 feet. It turned out that the 5.56 deviated so much from its course after the first wall, that it was almost impossible to hit the other walls to test penetration. So, we built bigger walls. These are 4 feet by...
www.theboxotruth.com
Good ol' Box o' Truth back up on forum - rather than blog - software.
Load in sequence from the perceived least lethal to the perceived most lethal and keep pumping and pulling till the job is done. Sure, Itāll be messy. But the information will be valuable.
Kind of like āhow many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?āā¦
If your only concern is over penetration, might I suggest .25?
You almost certainly won't stop your target with grandmas ole purse-shooter, however.
Knowing your target and what lies beyond it, is probably a better option, IMHO.
You almost certainly won't stop your target with grandmas ole purse-shooter, however.
Knowing your target and what lies beyond it, is probably a better option, IMHO.
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What's the advantage of flight control in the house at 10 to 15 feet in the house?
