Question for NRA instructors about the "W" word

[Chris]

 

[daceman63]

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[7.62x39]

You make it worse by suggesting our right to own "toys" is greater than what they perceive as the lives of others. We own weapons so we can defend ourselves. Period. All other things guns are used for is not why they are a protected item of ownership. Our ability to protect ourselves with weapons is the reason we accept the perceived side effects of an armed society. Not so we can poke holes in paper.

You are contributing to weapons having a negative connotation by furthering this rediculous guns are not weaoons BS. How about teaching the positives of a good guy having a WEAPON at their disposal?

Mike



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First off, You will never, ever hear me use the word toy to describe a firearm, I dislike that word far worse than weapon. They are NOT toys, they are tools, no more, no less.
Secondly, This threads original subject matter was why instructors in particular dislike "weapon" so much. I explained the why, as it was explained to Me by Jon Green, the head of GOAL training.

 

[crazymjb]

I dont go out of my way to call all guns weapons, but I do use the term interchangeably with some guns in various contexts. The NRA treating it as a bad word is inaccurate, counterproductive, and a joke.

Eta. I see the logic they are trying to use, it is just flawed-logic. As far as toys... some of my guns are toys. I have other dangerous toys that aren't firearms.

Mike

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[PeterGV]

I'm no fan of NRA dogma... In fact, I'm really no fan of the NRA. But that's a whole other discussion.

I used to think this prohibition against the "w" word in Basic Pistol was silly. However, thinking it through, I think their policy about not using the word "weapon" in Basic Pistol is probably correct.

When I took Handgun 101 at Sig Academy, there were definitely a significant number of people in the class who were not there for self defense. A number were there for pure curiosity. Some where there just to get over their fear of handguns. Some were there for self defense purposes, sure. But my wife was interested in handguns from the perspective of shooting bulls-eye (she's a former skeet shooter... gave up due to her bad back).

In this particular environment, I think referring to a handgun as a weapon isn't accurate and isn't a "best practice." Just like I wouldn't advocate referring to handguns in this class as "sporting arms", or "sports equipment." It depends on the pistol, and the user's intent.

Having said that, the word I most frequently use for my pistol (or that of another shooter) is "weapon" -- As in "Please holster that weapon when going down range." This reflects my particular focus and intent.

But for students in Basic Pistol? The "w word", while not intrinsically evil, just doesn't seem to be the most accurate term to me.

 

[Quiet]

I was trained by friends and relatives never to call a firearm, rifle or pistol or revolver or anything that goes "bang" a gun.

I got so damn tired of marines telling me this I relented.

Lately I've been writing "gun" more often and everytime I do I hear it from them in my own head.

Damn Marine Training.

 

[Johnnycakes]

gun
a weapon consisting of a metal tube, with mechanical attachments, from which projectiles are shot by the force of an explosive; a piece of ordnance.
any portable firearm, as a rifle, shotgun, or revolver.
a long-barreled cannon having a relatively flat trajectory.


weapon

any instrument or device for use in attack or defense in combat, fighting, or war, as a sword, rifle, or cannon.

 

[MisterHappy]

If you're old enough to own a firearm, you're welcome to call it what you like.

If you teach the NRA course, your are agreeing to follow their rules. If you don't want to, don't teach the course.

I do a lot of teaching new people, and many are nervous enough to not make them more twitchy by making the .22 Ruger or 870 seem more scary.

As stated above, it's semantics, but it's important semantics, IMO. The Antis frame the debate (Saturday night special; Assault weapon; large-capacity clip [intended]; military-grade weapon.....etc.) If you present guns as a matter-of-fact item, as opposed to a scary, loaded [pun intended] word, you disarm the Antis, to a certain extent.

 

[Quiet]

The Antis frame the debate (Saturday night special; Assault weapon; large-capacity clip [intended]; military-grade weapon.....etc.) If you present guns as a matter-of-fact item, as opposed to a scary, loaded [pun intended] word, you disarm the Antis, to a certain extent.

The Antis already own all of the terminology;
GUN control
Assault WEAPONS
ARMS control

We need to stop using these terms and fight back by naming things after adjectives and adverbs

Peacekeepers
Protectors
Shields
Rape Repeller
Pre-Police defense device

 

[crazymjb]

That's crap. Try telling an anti or someone on the fence that the gun on your hip isn't a weapon and you look like a fool.

Mike

 

[MisterHappy]

I disagree; when talking to someone that's already nervous, calling the gun on your hip your weapon will make you look like a Bernie Goetz/ Zimmerman wannabe. Hell, people refer to my 3" blade pocket knife as a "weapon" ....when all I use it for is cutting a piece of pizza, or the odd cardboard box (but the box did give me 'tude, so I was justified.)

Quiet's list of options is preferable.

Even the PRM doesn't call an LTC a "Weapons" license...and this is a state where shoes and dishes are routinely called "weapons" when used in a crime.

As I said, call you sidearm whatever you like; but extend the same courtesy to others.

 

[crazymjb]

Not a wannabe at all, but I don't do random other activities with the gun I carry. I carry it to shoot somebody or something if my life is in danger. As a statement of fact, it is a weapon. You look like a fool if you are insistent to someone that it is not a weapon. "Oh no, that gun on my hip is a tool. I'm carrying it in case I decide to go to the range, or need to use it as a hammer, or need to break a window."

If your primary purpose is to use it against another person with dangerous or deadly consequence, it's a weapon and you insult someone else's intelligence by insisting on anything different.

Mike

 

[Quiet]

Sidearm works for me I guess.


But really... Pre-Police Defense Device seems like it hits some of the right notes for a cynical renaming. Why is it always the left that gets away with crap like this**, why can't we co-opt their approach and come up with a great cynical term?



**(Although Reagan's Peacekeeper nuclear missile system was a goodie. :-D )

 

[Picton]

I work with a lot of antis, and married into a family with more. Every one of them is more afraid of the word "gun" than they are of the word "weapon." As a matter of fact, they're more afraid of the word "gun" than they are of almost anything else. I haven't tried "firearm," but I doubt they'd feel any better about it. Their fear is irrational, so why are we even trying to come up with a more palatable word? A word isn't going to make their fear magically go away.

Call it whatever you want. Unless you accept money to teach an NRA course; at that point, call it whatever they tell you to call it.

 

[ochmude]

Even the PRM doesn't call an LTC a "Weapons" license...and this is a state where shoes and dishes are routinely called "weapons" when used in a crime.

But Arizona, which is the complete polar opposite of MA, does call it a Concealed Weapons Permit...which was the basis for the original thread being started. So that isn't really a good argument.

 

[MisterHappy]

My point was not whether it was a weapon, or not, or could be.

My point was in the context of dealing with non-shooters and or Anits. The old Flies/Vinegar/Sugar theory, and all that.

If you'll notice, I said that people should be able to call their gun whatever they like.