Question and observations on the M44

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Rusty Barrels

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I'm going to copy an e-mail I just got from my brother. He picked up an M44 yesterday after having shot mine a while back. After cleaning it we took it to the range where we destroyed a few pumpkins!

Quote:
After I cleaned all my guns, I put the M44 in it's
sock. Within minutes, I just had to take it out and
look at it. I love this thing. I went to that site
www.7.62X54r.net and looked it up. It was Soviet made
at the Izhevsk armory.

There was some shit on the site about "corrosive"
ammo. They advise you clean the bore with an ammonia
solution before you actually clean it. I'm going to
take good care of it, but I'm not going to bother with
that.

The question I can't find an answer to is: Why the
hell are there so many of them out there? I don't see
how so many rifles could be made that never see
service. Especially WW2 era ones. The cold war lead to
a huge stockpile of AKs, but that's because they were
made for a war that never happened. You'd think the
Russians would have been sending these guns to the
front as fast as the factories could crank them out. I
should find some old M44 buff I can email about it.

I really love this rifle though. It's so cool to hold
something in your hands that was built specifically to
exterminate nazis. This rifle is so manly, I'm
expecting it to just suddenly grow a beard. It's so
Russian, I bet if I dipped the muzzle in vodka it
would start drinking it.
-End Quote

So why are there so many M44s in really good shape out there? Do any of you have one with a thirst for potato spirits?
 
Rusty Barrels said:
There was some shit on the site about "corrosive"
ammo. They advise you clean the bore with an ammonia
solution before you actually clean it. I'm going to
take good care of it, but I'm not going to bother with
that.
Click to expand...

Well then good luck to him. The corrosive salts that deposit in the bore of a gun used to shoot corrosive ammo can NOT be sufficiently removed with modern gun cleaning solvents. When that beautiful M44 has a bore that starts to look like a sewer pipe, he might change his tune!
 
There is not a "new" Mosin Nagant 91, 91/30, M-38,44,53,59 out there. They were all made and used in wars. Most of the M-38s & M-44s were re-arsenaled after the war and put into storage for the next conflict. The trick is to find one that is not re-arsenaled, in good shape and a bring back so it has no import mark on it. Now that is more valuable not just as a collectible but representing military history.

Definitely tell ytou brother to use the ammonia or just alot of plane water but use something other than just bore cleaner if he shoots corrosive surplus ammo. It will turn his bore to $hit.
 
Rusty Barrels said:
There was some shit on the site about "corrosive" ammo. They advise you clean the bore with an ammonia solution before you actually clean it. I'm going to
take good care of it, but I'm not going to bother with
that.
Click to expand...

This from a guy named Rusty Barrels... [smile]
 
crak said:
This from a guy named Rusty Barrels... [smile]
Click to expand...

I just noticed that.[laugh]

As for why there are so many M44s in good shape out there... Being made in 1944 some saw very little use, especially later production ones, and most if not all the ones you see have been sent to the arsenals for work so any damaged or bad parts could be replaced. Once they were reworked and returned to like new military issue condition, they (along with the ones that didn't need any work) were put away for a war that never came.
That and the fact that Russia has imported thousands of Mosins recently is why there are so many around that are nice.
As for the cleaning I too urge you to send him some links on corrosive amm clean up. SurplusRifle.com has all you need to know.
 
Just to change the subject slightly...I took my 870 and Chinese T53 out today to "reformat" a couple of old hard drives...talk about just plain fun!
They advise you clean the bore with an ammonia
solution before you actually clean it. I'm going to
take good care of it, but I'm not going to bother with
that.
Click to expand...
Back on topic, it takes all of 45 seconds to run a patch or 3 of Windex or the like down the barrel to give it a quick soaking before packing up for the day, and then just do a proper cleaning when you get home. If the guy says he's going to take good care of it but not take simple steps to preserve the bore, then I guess he isn't going to take good care of it.
 
I keep a small squeeze bottle of Windex in my range bag when I venture out with corrosive ammo. A few squirts down the chamber end and I'm good until I get home.
 
no one seemed to mention it here but i use the presoaked water based patches for my black powder after i shoot corrosive and it seems to work very well.
 
I'm just as interested in this this topic as my brother since we both own M44's. So is it only the old ammo that usually comes in cans that has corrosive properties? I only shoot the stuff that comes in 20 round boxes (Silver Bear). I ought to make an effort to learn more about this stuff since my C&R license arrived in the mail today and I'll probably be watching my milsurp collection grow soon!
 
I am the originator of the Email in question. I had no idea my brother would be posting on a forum where it would be torn to pieces. I didn't take the "corrosive" ammo thing very seriously but perhaps I should have. I'm taking the scolding recieved by you guys to heart, and I will pre-clean my bore with windex from now on. But I don't feel my original question has been answered. I hear stories of Soviet troops being sent out onto the battlefield with one rifle for every two men, due to massive shortages. So how could so many of them sit in crates when they should have been out making nazis into fertilizer? One poster suggested they were repair jobs. That's the closest thing to an answer I've seen, but it still doesn't add up to me.
 
The one rifle for 2 men would have been dead on at the time of Stalingrad and Leningrad - say '42 to '43. By 1944 the Russians should have had the factories putting out full production for all uses. Also remember that the Russians also equipped whole battalions with PPSH-41's subguns. That would take some of the pressure off of having to give a rifle to everybody.

The Russian's learned a lot of stuff during the Great Patriotic War:

1) The US would be the #1 enemy in some future conflict in the making of the world safe for communism. They learned that we had reserves and the ability to produce material if we desired to do so.

2) Never throw away anything. Even an old Mosin in the hands of a soldier is better than nothing at all or waiting for an AK-47. They had/have warehouses full of WW2 cannons, rifles, MG's, etc. that were to be used by reserves or homeland defense to pass out to repel the invaders. Again, they learned from the war as to why.

3) Quantity will win over quality - given enough time and effort. Problem was how much quality do you need to make your quantity the most effective? Figure that the average peasent wasn't the smartest person and things had to be designed with that in mind.

4) In a slight contradiction to #2 - don't be afraid to give your socialist brothers equipment to help the revolution - just don't give them the real good stuff. You have some rifles to spare... they may be Mosins but you can afford to lose a few since the warehouse is full!

Joe R>
 
Everybody, this my brother. My brother, this is everybody. Now that you've been introduced let me apologize if he seems a tad bit sensitive. He sure is fun to shoot with! He split our largest pumpkin clean in half the other day with his Mosin. That was bitchin!

Thanks for that post, Joe! I went to public school where I believe they mentioned WWII but I don't think they said anything about the Russians being involved. I probably got more of the feel for how things were in Russia during the war from your summary than from any history class I ever passed through!
 
Morphine and Rusty Barrel,

This forum is populated with a bunch of firearms enthusiasts, we take our hobby seriously enough that we'd hate to see anyone ruin a weapon out of ignorance (not meant as an insult just a word meaning lack of knowledge) and we express it with cander and humor. Take advice as it is intended simply advice, you can paddle a canoe with your 44 is you so desire but be prepared we will use and abuse you for it. Take all the abuse/criticism with a grain of salt we participate here for fun and everyone is fair game...tongue in cheek.
 
Understood. I at first just found it hard to believe that such a rugged rifle made by such rugged people would need special treatment. But I love my M44 so much, I guesss I'd click my heels together 3 times after shooting it if that's what it took to keep it pretty. You folks have filled me in on proper care and the history I was so curious about, and I'm appreciative. glad the soviets did go overboard with production and end up with stockpiles. Otherwise, I could have never added this piece of history to my collection for a paltry $130.
 
Morphine said:
Understood. I at first just found it hard to believe that such a rugged rifle made by such rugged people would need special treatment. But I love my M44 so much, I guesss I'd click my heels together 3 times after shooting it if that's what it took to keep it pretty. You folks have filled me in on proper care and the history I was so curious about, and I'm appreciative. glad the soviets did go overboard with production and end up with stockpiles. Otherwise, I could have never added this piece of history to my collection for a paltry $130.
Click to expand...

Welcome aboard. Do yourself a favor and get a C&R license (03FFL); you'll be able to buy 2 M44s for a little more than you paid for the one.
 
Just be thankful there are millions of M44's out there, keeping the price reasonable. If they only made 5,000 of them (like the Egyptian Rasheed), you'd be looking at $500 - $700 a copy (like the Egyptian Rasheed).

Go out and shoot that thing, and stop asking questions!
 
Just to interject on the corrosive ammo thing. My understanding is that if you are able to clean the rifle immediately after shooting it, you don't need to do the ammonia thing. The problem is that if you are going to take it home and let it sit for a few days or weeks before cleaning it's going to get rusty or pitted in the chamber and barrel.

Personally, I enjoy cleaning my weapons (even the ones that fire non corrosive ammo) at the range as it gives me a chance to smoke a cigar while cleaning and pondering the great mysteries of life. :)

Gary
 
You mean you guys actually CLEAN those rifles???? I thought you just bought a case and used them up until you were finished and then bought another case!![rofl]

Those cases are cool! I love seeing the 15 rifles stacked in there, it looks like they are ready for the troops to come in and grab them as they run out the door!!!!

The M44 is a cool rifle and as such deserves to be cleaned as any one of your other guns.
P.S. If you are using Silver Bear in the blue box it is NOT corrsive so there is no need to use windex when you clean.
 
ammo

You really need to use the "windex" treatment even if you clean your rifle immediately after you fire corrosive ammo. The oil based solutions will not remove the nasty stuff left behind from corrosive ammo.

I clean my rifle at the range when I can and have starting using Butches Bore Shine. I love the stuff. I have tried just about everything on the market and this stuff sure makes your barrel shine. It actually shortens cleaning time if you use it regularly. Which we all know means less time cleaning and more time Shooting[wink]
 
Bore Shine is good stuff. Cleans out both carbon and copper deposits in one step. No need to use the Sweets 7.62 unless the deposits are REALLY heavy. Just doesn't have that "Hoppe's Smell" though.
 

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