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Question about question 10

jhblaze1

jhblaze1

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I have a question about Q10.

The question asks if you have ever appeared in court for criminal charges. I have appeared in court for possession of a small amount of marijuana when i was a teenager in Maine. That is a Civil offense in Maine. But if it happened in MA it would be criminal.

Should i leave it out?
 
jhblaze1 said:
I have a question about Q10.

The question asks if you have ever appeared in court for criminal charges. I have appeared in court for possession of a small amount of marijuana when i was a teenager in Maine. That is a Civil offense in Maine. But if it happened in MA it would be criminal.

Should i leave it out?
Click to expand...

I strongly suggest that you contact a competent firearms attorney.
 
jhblaze1 said:
I have a question about Q10.

The question asks if you have ever appeared in court for criminal charges. I have appeared in court for possession of a small amount of marijuana when i was a teenager in Maine. That is a Civil offense in Maine. But if it happened in MA it would be criminal.

Should i leave it out?
Click to expand...

That is NOT what Question 10 asks.

Mistake # 1............ [rolleyes]
 
Care to enlighten us on the difference in meaning between 'for criminal charges' and 'as a defendant for any criminal offense'? To me the first sounds like sloppy layman's language and the second precise lawyer's language, but I don't see an obvious difference in meaning.
 
ya, i didnt feel like retyping question ten verbatim. I mean technically what happened in maine was a civil offense and NOT criminal. I just dont know if mASS will see my court record for marijuana 9 years ago and deny me a license because they think i should have put it down even though i technically anwsered question ten perfectly honestly by saying NO.
 
yeah, i would contact a lawyer....it sounds like u should answer "no" but if u get deny'd a lisence its a hugeeeeeee process fighting it..instead of doing it right the first time... i would def call a lawyer on this...
 
jar said:
Care to enlighten us on the difference in meaning between 'for criminal charges' and 'as a defendant for any criminal offense'? To me the first sounds like sloppy layman's language and the second precise lawyer's language, but I don't see an obvious difference in meaning.
Click to expand...

It is indeed a subtle difference.

Let us say the police want to file a criminal complaint, but also want to dot all the i's and cross all the t's. It seeks a complaint via a clerk magistrate's hearing; sort of like presenting evidence to a grand jury, but at the district court level. You appear and the CM decides (amazingly) that there insufficient evidence to bring charges. No complaint issues.

So - there were no criminal charges brought, yet you WERE a named defendant. Besides which, if the PD you apply to for your license knows of this incident, you may not only get denied, but charged w/making a false answer on your application.

The other reason is the gross stupidity of applicants. [rolleyes]

Monthly, people appear before the FLRB to have DISQUALIFYING convictions removed. This means they not only appeared as defendants, they were FOUND GUILTY - yet answer "NO" to Question #10. People like that cannot grasp the obvious, still less comprehend any subtle revisions.

In short, when dealing with those who are TSTL, even as simple a question as #10 can be confusing.

Care to guess how many cretins have told me they didn't think driving drunk was a crime? THOSE idiots are why you have to be very careful about rephrasing any question on the FA 25/26.
 
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Thanks, that clears it up. The rest of your comments raised a question I've been wondering about. What percentage of the clients of the prominent MA firearms lawyers are honest people who run afoul of this crappy state vs idiots who are at least stupid if not downright unquestionably guilty?
 
I'd put it at about 65% - 35%.

At times, there's a thin line between careless and just plain stupid.
 
Get that ME marijuana charge annulled or you will never own a firearm in MA. That is a life long statutory disqualifier in MA and one of the reasons firearm ownership is down 25% since 1998 in MA. The only exception is a first time MA offense which are typically recorded as CWOF (continued without a finding). You CAN NOT annul a charge in MA anymore, but you still can in NH. I don't know about ME, but if you can, do it ASAP.

Weather you make a couple road trips or hire a ME attorney to do it you must get the charge annulled before you apply for your MA LTC. Then have your MA attorney help you answer the "yes or no" questions on the application and word the explinations as to why you had to answer "yes" on certain questions.

Don't ask me how I know all this, GET A LAWYER! You need one. You can not afford to screw this up.
 
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I see your point, and it's why i asked the question. The key is that it was not a criminal charge in ME. The question specifically uses the phrase "any criminal offense". It was a civil offense and therefore after much thought i am comfortable answering NO to question 10.

When the LE wrote me up for the offense, i was unfamiliar with Maine law so i thought i was going to be arrested. I asked the LE if i was being placed under arrest and he looked at me like i had two heads and said, "no why would i arrest you. This isnt a crime, its a civil offense like a traffic ticket." I went to court and paid my fine right then and there.

Now, if this hypothetically was a crime in Maine and i appeared in court before a magistrate or whatever even without being arrested, i would obviously answer yes to 10, but since it is a civil and not criminal offense I'm going with NO.



Xak said:
Get that ME marijuana charge annulled or you will never own a firearm in MA. That is a life long statutory disqualifier in MA and one of the reasons firearm ownership is down 25% since 1998 in MA. The only exception is a first time MA offense which are typically recorded as CWOF (continued without a finding). You CAN NOT annul a charge in MA anymore, but you still can in NH. I don't know about ME, but if you can, do it ASAP.

Weather you make a couple road trips or hire a ME attorney to do it you must get the charge annulled before you apply for your MA LTC. Then have your MA attorney help you answer the "yes or no" questions on the application and word the explinations as to why you had to answer "yes" on certain questions.

Don't ask me how I know all this, GET A LAWYER! You need one. You can not afford to screw this up.
Click to expand...
 
I love when people come to forums and ask a question, then ignore the advice they've been giving and do what they planned to all along.
 
jar said:
I love when people come to forums and ask a question, then ignore the advice they've been giving and do what they planned to all along.
Click to expand...

Well, i dont think people understand the difference between a civil offense and a criminal offense. Sorry for opening a can of worms but i am comfortable with No on 10.

I just looked up the Maine statute and it is indeed a civil offense. Growing a couple plants in Maine is a misdemeanor (criminal offense) a difference. So since Q10 specifically uses the term criminal the answer has to be no. It wouldnt make sense to me to say Yes i have appeared in court as a defendant for a criminal offense if in fact i never have.

I have contacted a lawyer to get an opinion just to cross all my t's but I dont think i need one.
 
Ah... OK. It may not be a crime in ME, but in MA it is a life long statutory disqualifier for owning firearms. If it shows up on your background check your application will be denied. If you are renewing your LTC and it wasn't an issue in the past and ME decides to finally update their computer files before you renew and it shows up in your background check you will be denied renewal, AND any firearms you own will be confiscated.

I'm not trying to make you paranoid, I am trying to help you. This is part of the reason there is a 25% decline in firearm ownership in MA since 1998 (when this marijuana law among others were enacted). These things DO happen and they happen often.

Again, don't ask me how I know this. Take the advise so you don't need to find this out for yourself the hard way.

I 100% guarantee if the ME marijuana charge shows up in your background check you will be denied. This is not discretionary, it is statutory. Even if the licensing officer and chief are your best buds you will be denied.

Take my advice, or not... You could always bring a sling shot or bow to the range I guess.
 
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This looks like a real good reason to contact an attorney.

Take a gander at MGL Ch140 S131 Paragraph d, which reads, in part:

(d) Any person residing or having a place of business within the jurisdiction of the licensing authority or any person residing in an area of exclusive federal jurisdiction located within a city or town may submit to such licensing authority or the colonel of state police, an application for a Class A or Class B license to carry firearms, or renewal of the same, which such licensing authority or said colonel may issue if it appears that the applicant is a suitable person to be issued such license, and that the applicant has good reason to fear injury to his person or property, or for any other reason, including the carrying of firearms for use in sport or target practice only, subject to such restrictions expressed or authorized under this section, unless the applicant:

(i) has, in any state or federal jurisdiction, been convicted or adjudicated a youthful offender or delinquent child for the commission of (a) a felony; (b) a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for more than two years; (c) a violent crime as defined in section 121; (d) a violation of any law regulating the use, possession, ownership, transfer, purchase, sale, lease, rental, receipt or transportation of weapons or ammunition for which a term of imprisonment may be imposed; or (e) a violation of any law regulating the use, possession or sale of controlled substances as defined in section 1 of chapter 94C;
Click to expand...

Full text is here: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131.htm

It appears to me that any drug conviction is a disqualifier for an LTC. IANAL, but I sure think you need one.
 
M1911 said:
This looks like a real good reason to contact an attorney.

Take a gander at MGL Ch140 S131 Paragraph d, which reads, in part:



Full text is here: http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131.htm

It appears to me that any drug conviction is a disqualifier for an LTC. IANAL, but I sure think you need one.
Click to expand...

I actually looked up what it means to be "adjuticated a youthful offender" It has to be a pretty serious crime that in most cases would be a felony if committed by an adult. I was worried about Q7 but that's definately a NO for me. Here is what the law says a "youthful offender" is:

From MGL Chapter 119 sec 52:

“Youthful offender”, a person who is subject to an adult or juvenile sentence for having committed, while between the ages of fourteen and seventeen, an offense against a law of the commonwealth which, if he were an adult, would be punishable by imprisonment in the state prison, and (a) has previously been committed to the department of youth services, or (b) has committed an offense which involves the infliction or threat of serious bodily harm in violation of law, or (c) has committed a violation of paragraph (a), (c) or (d) of section ten or section ten E of chapter two hundred and sixty-nine; provided that, nothing in this clause shall allow for less than the imposition of the mandatory commitment periods provided in section fifty-eight of chapter one hundred and nineteen.

Section 10 and 10e of chapter 269 specify previous gun/weapons charges.

I'm not sweating Q7 at all.
 
I believe that you are misreading the law. You don't have to have been adjudicated as a youthful offender. The licensing authority may issue an LTC unless the applicant:

has, in any state or federal jurisdiction, been convicted or adjudicated a youthful offender or delinquent child for the commission of...
Click to expand...

Notice the "or". The phrase applies if you were convicted or if you were adjudicated a youthful offender.

You paid the fine, correct? Therefore, you were convicted, correct?

And this is what you were convicted of:

(e) a violation of any law regulating the use, possession or sale of controlled substances as defined in section 1 of chapter 94C;
Click to expand...

I can not understand why you would not be sweating this. The law prohibits issuing LTCs to anyone who has been convicted of a drug charge. You were convicted of a drug charge. Therefore, you are prohibited from being issued an LTC.

Well, I won't be the one facing the licensing officer when he finds the conviction in your background check. Best of luck to you. I think you may need it.

That said, I'm not a lawyer and I've learned that interpreting laws is often far more difficult than it appears.

And with that, I'm out of this thread...
 
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I 100% guarantee if the ME marijuana charge shows up in your background check you will be denied. This is not discretionary, it is statutory.
Click to expand...
The "non criminal/civil offense" issue is one it will take a decent MA attorney to figure out.

The statute says "convicted". In MA one cannot be "convicted" of a civil violation but "found responsible" (at least for traffic civil violations, I assume for others as well). It's all a matter of what the word "conviction" means. The time to get that figured out is not when you get the denial.

I can not understand why you would not be sweating this. The law prohibits issuing LTCs to anyone who has been convicted of a drug charge. You were convicted of a drug charge. Therefore, you are prohibited from being issued an LTC.
Click to expand...

Therein lies the subtle and tricky part. Supposing he was not "convicted of a criminal offense" but merely "found responsible for a civil violation"? Is that a "conviction" for the purpose of MA law? For example, would be it be considered a "Prior conviction" under state or federal sentencing guidelines? If not, would gun licensing be any different?

Scriv? Darius? Can you enlighten us?
 
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I second what M1911 suggests. If you are applying for an MA LTC
and you have complicated blems on your record (a drug charge would
definitely qualify!) a gun lawyer is a "must have" because there are
all kinds of hidden land mines. I'd strongly recommend
contacting one of the 3 aforementioned individuals. This is not a
case to screw around, because if you answer one of the questions
incorrectly, you might end up getting yourself in more trouble.

-Mike
 
A couple last things...

Rob: I agree that the interpretation could hinge on very specific definitions that we may not be aware of. As an example (which I'm sure you are aware of), many people misinterpret MA gun laws because they are not aware that the word "firearm" has a very unusual meaning in MGL.

jhblaze1:

LTCs are discretionary. The licensing officer can decide to issue or not, as he pleases. Even if you are not statutorily disqualified, the licensing officer may decide you are not "suitable" due to 1) the conviction 2) what you tell him, 3) what you don't tell him, and/or 4) how you tell him.

If I were in your shoes, I really would not want to go into that interview without a plan that had been vetted by someone who has been through these issues before. And btw, I suspect that doing the jail-house lawyer thing and telling the officer that you didn't have to say "yes" to 10 if he thinks you did is unlikely to help convince him to issue you a discretionary license.

This is not a case to screw around, because if you answer one of the questions incorrectly, you might end up getting yourself in more trouble.
Click to expand...
+100

The application form has this warning on it:

ANY PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY FILES AN APPLICATION CONTAINING FALSE
INFORMATION SHALL BE PUNISHED BY A FINE OF NOT LESS THAN $500 NOR
MORE THAN $1,000 OR BY IMPRISONMENT FOR NOT LESS THAN 6 MONTHS
NOR MORE THAN 2 YEARS IN A HOUSE OF CORRECTION, OR BY BOTH SUCH
FINE AND IMPRISONMENT (M.G.L. c.140, § 131).
Click to expand...
 
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So can anyone recommend a good attorney that specializes in this?


I have contacted a couple lawyers in my area, but I dont know if they specialize in MA gun laws.

Thanks.
 
Xak said:
Ah... OK. It may not be a crime in ME, but in MA it is a life long statutory disqualifier for owning firearms. If it shows up on your background check your application will be denied. If you are renewing your LTC and it wasn't an issue in the past and ME decides to finally update their computer files before you renew and it shows up in your background check you will be denied renewal, AND any firearms you own will be confiscated.

I'm not trying to make you paranoid, I am trying to help you. This is part of the reason there is a 25% decline in firearm ownership in MA since 1998 (when this marijuana law among others were enacted). These things DO happen and they happen often.

Again, don't ask me how I know this. Take the advise so you don't need to find this out for yourself the hard way.

I 100% guarantee if the ME marijuana charge shows up in your background check you will be denied. This is not discretionary, it is statutory. Even if the licensing officer and chief are your best buds you will be denied.

Take my advice, or not... You could always bring a sling shot or bow to the range I guess.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna take everyone's advice and consult a lawyer. I know for a fact it wont show up in any criminal background check since it wasnt a crime, but how deep they look and whether or not non criminal offenses show up is something i just dont know. So thanks for the advice everyone, i'm going to take it.

Ya, i smoked a little pot back in the day (dont anymore). Would really suck if that screwed me!

Thanks again.
 

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