Preban AR 15

[Glockster30]

Massachusetts government's mission has been accomplished!

Exactly what I was thinking while reading through the thread.

 

[DarthRevan]

I don't care about the collapsible stock, but would like a "birdcage" flash hider. I find it odd that the "pre-ban" has collapsible stock ability, even though those are a newer addition.

Silencers would also be cool. Are silencers banned/allowed state by state, or is that a federal thing?

Silencers are a federal NFA item. And you have to clear it by your CoP. But I think the odds of that are minute at best.

 

[RDG]

Silencers are a federal NFA item. And you have to clear it by your CoP. But I think the odds of that are minute at best.

I thought silencers are illegal in MA, period. I don't think you can have one even with a tax stamp.

 

[Coyote33]

I thought silencers are illegal in MA, period. I don't think you can have one even with a tax stamp.

The other side wants compromise legislation. I think I'm going to ask my rep to put in a bill to fix the above problem, as a compromise.

 

[Dench]

Hi guys.
Open question. Why would you, or would not pay extra for a preban AR-15 or a preban lower in Mass.

I would , all my ar rifles are built on preban colt lowers. As Mass resident I already take enough from our lovely Commonwealth on gun related issues, so the only way to stick it back by building another rifle with all evil features possible.

What are you think?

Thank you for your input.

Preban colts can suck. I have one thats a large pin and it's nothing but a pain in the ass.

 

[rkwjunior]

I thought silencers are illegal in MA, period. I don't think you can have one even with a tax stamp.

Silencers are a No Go in Mass

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

I absolutely understand why people would want all the extra stuff, and I know it should be protected under our rights and everything, but I just don't really need or want any of the banned features.

Now, in my carry gun, I want high-cap magazines, but that's about it.

I want Hi-Cap magazines for ANY gun I own. I dont care about the Flash hider, I just buy ACE Skeleton stocks to get my stock length where I want it.

 

[dcmdon]

It's a very real possibility and i'm not going to ignore it just because i don't agree with the stupid laws as a whole. Whether it's legal or not someone could find themselves in front of a judge cause of a d-bag cop. So i'm not going to tell someone it's 100% legal when it's could easily happen to someone trying to interpret convoluted laws. I feel people should know it's not necessarily clear cut. I never said it was illegal or legal, i just gave an example of a real possibility when it comes to interpreting laws.

Ive done that configuration many times with a pre ban lower and i prefer other features and billet lowers more than i care about John law being a d-bag.

You are complying with a law that doesn't exist. Sorry You lose.

Its certainly your right to not exercise your rights within the law. But lets call it what it is.

 

[dcmdon]

Case in point: I'm a new shooter and I'm terrified of breaking a gun law, partly because of these forums and partly because my gun instructor, while very good, spent about half of the class talking about how to not get in trouble. Makes me think that if I so much as look at a gun the wrong way, I'll get in trouble.

My first suggestion is to figure out who to listen to.

I'll start you out with a list.

Don't listen to:
1) RKW Junior

Do listen to:
1) LenS
2) RobBoudrie
3) Cekim
4) Knuckledragger
5) Terraformer.

Here are some other general tips.
1) If someone ever says "show me the law that says you can do . . . " Ignore them. They are ignorant of the very fundamentals on which all laws are built, which is that laws TAKE AWAY rights. They don't grant them. Anything that is not prohibited, is allowed.

2) if someone quotes or references a law, they should be willing to provide a citation to either the text of the actual law, or a scholarly defense of that position in some kind of law review journal.


PRE-BANS
If you own a pre-ban rifle, you can dress it up as you like. I don't care about collapsible stocks, flash hiders, and bayonet lugs.

What I do care about is a threaded muzzle. I like to experiment with brakes. I (lawfully) own silencers. A threaded barrel is a Must Have.

SILENCERS

With respect to my comment on getting an 07 and being able to own silencers, here is a citation. Its right in the first sentence:

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter269/Section10A

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

I thought silencers are illegal in MA, period. I don't think you can have one even with a tax stamp.

Government, LE agency, or FFL manufacturing license.

Not available to the average transferee like other NFA items.

The one device that would stop all the noise complaints in the state and they're prohibited from ownership by John Q. Public.

 

[RDG]

SILENCERS

With respect to my comment on getting an 07 and being able to own silencers, here is a citation. Its right in the first sentence:

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter269/Section10A

Does an 07 FFL still need a tax stamp for a silencer?

 

[rkwjunior]

My first suggestion is to figure out who to listen to.

I'll start you out with a list.

Don't listen to:
1) RKW Junior

Do listen to:
1) LenS
2) RobBoudrie
3) Cekim
4) Knuckledragger
5) Terraformer.

Here are some other general tips.
1) If someone ever says "show me the law that says you can do . . . " Ignore them. They are ignorant of the very fundamentals on which all laws are built, which is that laws TAKE AWAY rights. They don't grant them. Anything that is not prohibited, is allowed.

2) if someone quotes or references a law, they should be willing to provide a citation to either the text of the actual law, or a scholarly defense of that position in some kind of law review journal.


PRE-BANS
If you own a pre-ban rifle, you can dress it up as you like. I don't care about collapsible stocks, flash hiders, and bayonet lugs.

What I do care about is a threaded muzzle. I like to experiment with brakes. I (lawfully) own silencers. A threaded barrel is a Must Have.

SILENCERS

With respect to my comment on getting an 07 and being able to own silencers, here is a citation. Its right in the first sentence:

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter269/Section10A

I don't see your name on the list??

I never said it couldn't be legally done, as far as dressing up a Pre-ban lower, just making someone aware that you don't want to be proving it in court, not trying to scare anyone or keep them from expressing their right, just food for thought, no more no less.

Calling me out is not necessary, i've learned that it's the NES way. Thanx

 

[Coyote33]

Just some guy having a little legal fun. $200 stamp, plus $75 part, plus $3.30 filter:

 

[dcmdon]

I don't see your name on the list??

I never said it couldn't be legally done, as far as dressing up a Pre-ban lower, just making someone aware that you don't want to be proving it in court, not trying to scare anyone or keep them from expressing their right, just food for thought, no more no less.

Calling me out is not necessary, i've learned that it's the NES way. Thanx

I didn't put my name on the list because while I know more than most about MA law, I've only been parsing MA law for the last two years and I screw up sometimes. I am not in the same league as the people I put on that list. I'd put myself on the CT list if I can be immodest for a moment.

Either way. Your fearmongering doesn't help anything or anyone. The reality is that MA cops don't just arrest you for no reason. There has to be a reason you catch their attention. Most don't know the law. Like you said. If you are legal things will work themselves out. If you are afraid to get arrested by a cop who doesn't know the law, you should stick to revolvers and bolt action guns.

Calling you out IS necessary because it is because of people like you that many MA gun owners are scared of their own shadow. You do no good advocating that people not exercise their rights within the law when the risks are nearly zero.

- - - Updated - - -

Does an 07 FFL still need a tax stamp for a silencer?

An 07 still needs a stamp if he has not paid the Class 2 Special Occupancy Tax (SOT). If an O7 has a SOT, he can manufatcture and transfer NFA firearms (a silencer is legally a firearm) without paying a tax. The SOT starts at $500 /year. So at 10x the cost of an 07 FFL its not nickles and dimes.

Don

 

[dcmdon]

The crazy thing is this company sells the same item without the need for a stamp and advertises it as a gun cleaning accessory that catches the splattering oil from the cleaning brush when it comes out of the barrel. Simply affix it to your barrel, then screw on an oil filter an clean your gun.

Don

p.s. If you don't want the hassle of waiting 6 months for a transfer but want to be legal, buy the cleaning accessory. Then register it yourself via a form 1 and make it into a silencer. I'd suggest you not actually buy any oil filters for it until you have the form 1 firmly in hand. Also realize that the oil filter will need to be serialized and if you destroy the filter, you should technically get another stamp for $200.

 

[Lank]

Case in point: I'm a new shooter and I'm terrified of breaking a gun law, partly because of these forums and partly because my gun instructor, while very good, spent about half of the class talking about how to not get in trouble. Makes me think that if I so much as look at a gun the wrong way, I'll get in trouble.

sucks being in ma doesnt it. only gun owners and sex offenders have to notifity the "autorities" when they move. that is the democrat plan- make so many rules the average joe will eventaully be pdq'd

 

[rkwjunior]

I didn't put my name on the list because while I know more than most about MA law, I've only been parsing MA law for the last two years and I screw up sometimes. I am not in the same league as the people I put on that list. I'd put myself on the CT list if I can be immodest for a moment.

Either way. Your fearmongering doesn't help anything or anyone. The reality is that MA cops don't just arrest you for no reason. There has to be a reason you catch their attention. Most don't know the law. Like you said. If you are legal things will work themselves out. If you are afraid to get arrested by a cop who doesn't know the law, you should stick to revolvers and bolt action guns.

Calling you out IS necessary because it is because of people like you that many MA gun owners are scared of their own shadow. You do no good advocating that people not exercise their rights within the law when the risks are nearly zero.

HAHA, Fear-mongering, WOW!!! Stop being so dramatic, why don't you twist my words a little more?? There have been plenty of threads on this topic and plenty of respectable people have conveyed this possible risk and situation. And if you read all of my posts i said that if you find yourself in this situation you probably have bigger issues. While the risk is very slim, these loser cops do exist and one should know that the risk exists, and i'm not saying you should not drive a car in fear of getting in a car accident, lets not act like it's paranoia here either, this has been blown out of proportion, as usual.

There are many other reasons a $500 premium for a pre ban lower isn't worth it IMHO, a loser LEO isn't my top concern nor should it be anyone else's top concern, just sayin.

 

[RDG]

thanks Don, good info.

 

[dcmdon]

RKW - Find me one instance of a person arrested and prosecuted for having evil features on a pre-ban gun and I'll send you a 6 pack of your favorite beer.

The only constraint is that the person has to have been acting lawfully when he was "noticed". I'm trying to exclude criminals swept up in drug busts and things like that.

Thanks,

Don

p.s. As you can see, I'm less sure of myself than I was a couple of months ago when I offered $50 to anyone who could find a single instance of a child being killed by ammunition absent the presence of a firearm. I've still got that fifty in my pocket.

 

[Varmint]

p.s. As you can see, I'm less sure of myself than I was a couple of months ago when I offered $50 to anyone who could find a single instance of a child being killed by ammunition absent the presence of a firearm. I've still got that fifty in my pocket.

Physics right? Without a heavy metal gun to push off against, the bullet isn't going to go anywhere fast even if the powder somehow lights off. Maybe if it were sitting face up on a hard surface.

 

[rkwjunior]

RKW - Find me one instance of a person arrested and prosecuted for having evil features on a pre-ban gun and I'll send you a 6 pack of your favorite beer.

The only constraint is that the person has to have been acting lawfully when he was "noticed". I'm trying to exclude criminals swept up in drug busts and things like that.

Thanks,

Don

p.s. As you can see, I'm less sure of myself than I was a couple of months ago when I offered $50 to anyone who could find a single instance of a child being killed by ammunition absent the presence of a firearm. I've still got that fifty in my pocket.

There may not be any instance of this happening, but it's a real possibility. For the most part it's innocent till proven guilty these days.

One comment that got blown out of proportion...

 

[Ducttape4all]

Hi guys.
Open question. Why would you, or would not pay extra for a preban AR-15 or a preban lower in Mass.

I would , all my ar rifles are built on preban colt lowers. As Mass resident I already take enough from our lovely Commonwealth on gun related issues, so the only way to stick it back by building another rifle with all evil features possible.

What are you think?

Thank you for your input.

To try to sell it post 7/20 for just under $4000,00 to some sap.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/317088-Preban-(pre-09-1994)-Ar-15-Rifle

 

[bill o]

Not sure what's so funny. Dude looks pretty smart from where I'm sitting.

Why not save money by buying a Bridgeport and milling your own?

 

[Ducttape4all]

Not sure what's so funny. Dude looks pretty smart from where I'm sitting.

"Hi guys.
Open question. Why would you, or would not pay extra for a preban AR-15 or a preban lower in Mass"

Starting with this question and now selling one for that money was funny to me. It does not have to amuse you.... If he can find someone to pay that price more power to him but it is still funny to ME. I was not attacking him, hey if he finds the sap it was a great investment!!!

 

[TheGreekFreak]

Am I pissed that we don't have the option to slap on "evil" features? Yes.

Does it piss me off enough to drop crazy money on a preban lower? No.

Tbh my rifle in a free state would be identical to what it is now. Comp instead of flash hider, I prefer the stability of fixed stocks to collapsible ones, and don't want a bayo lug even if I could have one.

The AWB was a joke to begin with. The mag restriction is the only thing that really stings me hard. Guess we have to live with crappy old pre bans until maura closes the "pre ban loophole" for the good of the kids and adds to our rap sheets.

 

[mac1911]

I don't care for this mentality. Fear perpetuates myth.

Ok so yes I'm trying to just forget the AG and her abuse of power BUT IIRC her stance is any "AW" on the list transfered after the MA 1998 adoption of the federal ban is in fact done Illegally?

I was also under the impression from her new insight on the old law that even pre 1994"AWs" can not be transfered in....

Am I reading into this wrong. It's a moot point right now anyway , unless something changed. no AW or its clone or copy can be transfered in MA anyway?

 

[TLB]

Ok so yes I'm trying to just forget the AG and her abuse of power BUT IIRC her stance is any "AW" on the list transfered after the MA 1998 adoption of the federal ban is in fact done Illegally?

I was also under the impression from her new insight on the old law that even pre 1994"AWs" can not be transfered in....

Am I reading into this wrong. It's a moot point right now anyway , unless something changed. no AW or its clone or copy can be transfered in MA anyway?

True pre-bans are still transferable.

 

[JAD]

...

An 07 still needs a stamp if he has not paid the Class 2 Special Occupancy Tax (SOT). If an O7 has a SOT, he can manufatcture and transfer NFA firearms (a silencer is legally a firearm) without paying a tax. The SOT starts at $500 /year. So at 10x the cost of an 07 FFL its not nickles and dimes.

Don

An 07 would also need a stamp IF they acquired a silencer (or other NFA regulated firearm) in transaction which does not qualify for a form 5/ tax exempt transfer from a person that does not have an SOT of some sort

 

[bill o]

True pre-bans are still transferable.

Any lower is still transferable per the actual law. Just because most dealers are scared of legal costs doesn't mean it's illegal.

 

[JackO]

"Hi guys.
Open question. Why would you, or would not pay extra for a preban AR-15 or a preban lower in Mass"

Starting with this question and now selling one for that money was funny to me. It does not have to amuse you.... If he can find someone to pay that price more power to him but it is still funny to ME. I was not attacking him, hey if he finds the sap it was a great investment!!!

It won't be funny to you if you would pay attention to the date of the OP: 08-01-2014.