Pre-Ban build

[FalArAk]

I have some questions maybe someone can answer.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Greg,

Since MA has the same AWB in place as the Feds let sunset, the same rules apply here now. YES, I would get a sworn statement that it was a full rifle in so-called AWB configuration prior to 9/13/94 to keep yourself out of legal trouble.

There are numerous instances of LEOs confiscating guns because they believe them to be illegal in civilian hands (the gun laws are terribly confusing and few civilians or LEOs really understand them), even when they are perfectly legal. If you've ever seen the way things are "taken care of" in an evidence room you'd cry! [A former gun club president took a civilian academy program and he told me that he saw beer cans sitting on top of pistols, etc on a shelf in the evidence room. From my days in the PD, I saw a lot worse treatment.] It would probably cost you more than the gun was worth for a good lawyer to spring your gun free from the PD, so you want your bases covered to keep away from any potential conflicts.

 

[JonJ]

Len I agree with all you state including the letter to CYA. But isn't the receiver alone considered a firearm in MA in agreement with the BATFE? I mean if the receiver is pre-ban he should be able to put any legal pre-ban upper or stock on it, no? I do realize that we live in the state of "semantics" and chp140s131m says "assaullt weapon". I guess the case could or would be argued against the owner that it is some of the evil features of the upper which make it an assault weapon not the rec alone. Talk about confusing, my head hurts.

Another part of 141s131m that isn't clear is "The provisions of this section shall not apply to: (i) the possession by a law enforcement officer for purposes of law enforcement......."
Does that mean I'm covered only at work, or could I legally (privately) possess what I normally carry at work civilian banned) for training on my own time?

As for the storage of firearms as evidence, I'll tell you first hand that firearms are basically considered the same as any other evidence. Most guys don't know or care what the firearms are. Dinged, dropped, piled up on each other, stuff stored on top of, it doesn't matter. I've see real purdy, expensive rifles treated like junk.

Jon

 

[KMaurer]

For the federal ban simple receivers didn't count. They actually had to be assembled prior to the cut-off date in order to be considered legally as pre-ban. As a result, almost everybody who was manufacturing receivers had a final stage where they slapped on the necessary parts to make it complete, then stripped it back again. The bottom line is that if it was really a legal pre-ban receiver under the old federal law, then it's legal under the Mass law. Most manufacturers supplied certifying letters for their receivers for the federal law; you still might be able to get one to CYA for Mass.

Ken

 

[Len-2A Training]

Jon,

It seems that you missed Ron Glidden's seminar today. That would have been a perfect question to ask him. I think that the same Fed rule (expired) applies in MA, but I am not 100% certain.

As for owning banned AWBs in MA, the restriction means that you could only own a post-9/13/94 "AWB" for LE uses (if purchase approved by PD) and not for other person usage. To practice, the best bet is to get the OK to take a PD rifle to the range for practice. But no, you can't own one for "personal purposes" (under the current law) even though you are LE.

 

[JonJ]

Jon,

It seems that you missed Ron Glidden's seminar today. That would have been a perfect question to ask him. I think that the same Fed rule (expired) applies in MA, but I am not 100% certain.

As for owning banned AWBs in MA, the restriction means that you could only own a post-9/13/94 "AWB" for LE uses (if purchase approved by PD) and not for other person usage. To practice, the best bet is to get the OK to take a PD rifle to the range for practice. But no, you can't own one for "personal purposes" (under the current law) even though you are LE.

I'm sorry I messed it too Len.

Hey, you can't blame a guy for trying. I don't think that LEO's or anyone else should be able to possess what others can't anyway. Creates a class of ownership that just ins't fair.
As for borrowing one of the Dept's AR's, fat chance, we have a limited number and you can't even get ammo out of them for practice on your own time. They order only what's needed for yearly Qual and duty stuff.

Jon

 

[J_Smith]

Many Colt Sporters and SP1's are preban - check serial numbers though - also Essential Arms was preban.......Olympic Arms, DPMS, and Bushmaster were all big before the ban in 1994.......if building a postban gun for Massachusetts I recommend Stag Arms......they offer a HIGH quality AR15 product at local prices and are local out of Connecticut......same company (CMT) that makes Colt's parts........

 

[Rooster]

Don't forget all PWA (Pac West) recievers were preban. I just traded my PWA preB for a Bushy lower to someone in Long Island.

 

[JonJ]

Don't forget all PWA (Pac West) recievers were preban. I just traded my PWA preB for a Bushy lower to someone in Long Island.

Happy to hear you sent that pre-ban lower to a ban state Rooster.
I think my next "big" purchase will be a pre-ban lower, if I can find a reasonably priced one.
Just shopping around, I see many people advertising AR's as "pre-ban" but what they are selling is new or newer rifles in a "pre-ban configuration". Buyer beware.
Jon

 

[beasler]

I've been told that Essential Arms was absorbed by Olympic. Also, I know that all of Olympic's records were destroyed in 2000. This means that they can only verify date of manufacture, but not whether it was shipped as a complete rifle or just a lower (from their web site).

If this is true, does it mean that Colt, Bushmaster, and DPMS are the only manufacturers that will verify/certify preban rifle status for Mass? I know Bushmaster provides this letter service of SN verification. Does Colt and DPMS?

I'm looking for a preban lower, and I don't want to make any mistakes.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Moderator]

I built a Essential Arms about a month ago. They are back in business. Here is there website.
http://essentialarms.com/

http://essentialarms.com/EA

Company background.htm​

Essential Arms began production of AR-15 lower receivers, aluminum CAR stocks, and AR-15 parts in 1982 with the intent to offer America the best parts available at the best price.

Essential Arms was the first producer of AR-15 lower receivers in aviation alloy through the investment
process. Receivers are anodized mil.spec. 8625 after machining from the finest heat treated T-6 alloy. We produced receivers bearing the Essential Arms Company name until 1994. At that time part of our tooling was purchased by a Minnesota based firm. From 1994 through 2002 Essential Arms did partial machining on lower receivers for other manufacturers. During these years we continued to produce our aluminum CAR stock for retro fit on pre-ban guns and to police departments through various distributors.

We are pleased to again be able to offer our services to the shooting public. Offered to you from the
armory in the swamp, a part guaranteed to be the finest product available at a price that is affordable.
In 2005 we begin producing forged lower receivers that replaced our production of investment cast receivers.

 

[Moderator]

Here is a bit more information I found. Like I said above they are back in business
Here is a pre-ban for sale on gunbroker.com

http://www.gunbroker.net/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=46419315
Essential Arms Pre-Ban Lower Receiver Assembly Model J-15 - Condition New, Manufactured in 1994 before the ban went into effect, this receiver has been in storage for over 10 years. Just before the ban went into effect Essential arms put a small quantity of J-15 receivers in storage and I was lucky enough to talk them into selling me 2 of them and this one is up for auction. Grey not Black Finish. Caliber .223 / 5.56. The 4 position adjustable stock is made of metal not plastic - even the adjustment lever is metal. The pistol grip is made of plastic. This item is Connecticut legal since it was manufactured before the ban went into effect. This receiver my be legal to own in other states that have an assault weapon ban. Please check your local and state laws before bidding. Buyer pays fixed amount of $10.00 for shipping and insurance to lower 48 only. I Must have a Dealer FFL for this one. Visit us on the web at: www.smsguns.com

This is what a Pre-ban receiver should look like. The original models were called J-15. It is what mine looks like (this is not my receiver just a pic of one)

Here is what the new "no-ban" receivers look like.Also It looks like the model had been janched to J-15-F

 

[beasler]

Thanks for the help TYPE01313. Unfortunately, living in MA, this EA receiver won't do the trick as it wasn't stored or shipped as a complete rifle after it was manufactured (it's never been a complete rifle - at least as it's described). I appreciate the heads-up, though. Keep me in mind if you find something.

 

[Moderator]

Major bummer, They are out there just have to look hard. I paid about $300 just for the receiver, no parts kit. I was lucky enough to get a complete parts kit for $415. I suggest you keep checking the classifieds and auction sites.

 

[beasler]

I own an Oly preban lower now, but I have no way to verify complete rifle status when the ban went into effect (because of the fire at Olympic arms). It was one of their TBOR limited run in 1991 (The Bill Of Rights - only 200 manufactured). They were originally produced out of a berrylium alloy, but many were remanufactured in standard aluminum since. Mine is aluminum mil-spec with the original TBOR XXXX serial number and in pristine condition - it was unused when I got it and I've only fired a hundred rounds with it. Do you think folks in CT would be interested in this? I'd sell it to get cash for a MA compliant preban lower if I could get a decent price for it. What do you think?

 

[LoginName]

Thanks for the help TYPE01313. Unfortunately, living in MA, this EA receiver won't do the trick as it wasn't stored or shipped as a complete rifle after it was manufactured (it's never been a complete rifle - at least as it's described). I appreciate the heads-up, though. Keep me in mind if you find something.

Check here...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=98&t=224514

FWIW, if I'm reading Jarret Barrios 'new and improved' MA AWB bill correctly (hasn't been voted on yet), bringing in anymore pre-ban lowers and/or complete rifles would come to an end for us lowly citizens.

 

[JonJ]

I own an Oly preban lower now, but I have no way to verify complete rifle status when the ban went into effect (because of the fire at Olympic arms). It was one of their TBOR limited run in 1991 (The Bill Of Rights - only 200 manufactured). They were originally produced out of a berrylium alloy, but many were remanufactured in standard aluminum since. Mine is aluminum mil-spec with the original TBOR XXXX serial number and in pristine condition - it was unused when I got it and I've only fired a hundred rounds with it. Do you think folks in CT would be interested in this? I'd sell it to get cash for a MA compliant preban lower if I could get a decent price for it. What do you think?

You'd probably find someone in Mass that would want it.

And it kills me to see people in free states buy new lowers for less than $100.