• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Powder storage limit?

Franko

Franko

Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
194
Likes
41
Location
North Shore
Feedback: 47 / 0 / 0
I know this is a ridiculous question but I'm going to ask anyway. Yesterday I was showing someone a picture of my reloading room. He noticed roughly twenty 1lb jugs of powder on the top shelf. He says to me "make sure don't show anyone that picture". I said why not??? He said its illegal to store more than 4lbs of powder! What???? I told him he's nuts. I was forced to buy an 8lb jug once just to get a couple pounds of what I needed. So whats the deal here?
I am not second guessing myself and I'm sure he's wrong. Just wondering if anyone else has heard anything so laughable!
 
He's wrong. The limit is 16 lbs without a permit, and 48 lbs with a permit.

If some of those are partially filled, it's pretty likely you have less than 16 lbs.
 
milktree said:
He's wrong. The limit is 16 lbs without a permit, and 48 lbs with a permit.

If some of those are partially filled, it's pretty likely you have less than 16 lbs.
Click to expand...
Good to know. I honestly did not know there was a limit. Just looked it up. Only 2lbs of black powder with permit and up to 5lbs with permit. Theres also a limit on how much ammo you can store. Looks like permits are available from the local fire department. Wonder if getting a permit is more trouble than its worth, as far as drawing attention to myself? Just want to be on the safe side.

Massachusetts Ammo and Component Storage Regulations - MassReloading
 
Last edited:
giphy.gif
 
Franko said:
Wonder if getting a permit is more trouble than its worth, as far as drawing attention to myself? Just want to be on the safe side.
Click to expand...
In my city (Gloucester) it seems to definitely be more trouble than anything. I pursued it a few years ago because my buddies brother is the fire inspector but he hadn’t heard of the regs and eventually reached out to some other city officials and that’s when I said F this! Don’t need to have some moonbat city official with a pole up their ass wanting to turn this into a big deal.

Lots of members here will tell you that your homeowners insurance won’t cover a fire if you don’t have a permit but no one has spoken from experience. I’m willing to take my chances.
 
the only reason i got a permit back in '80 was i had heard that if you had a fire in the house and kept powder without the permit, it could get nasty with the homeowners insurance as far as paying out. i never found out if that was fact or fiction but it was free so i got one. i suppose a simple call to the agent to confirm would have worked too but i wasn't as smart then as i am now. it's still hanging in the same spot i put it when i got it, a little ratty looking, but still there.
 
If there were a substantial fire in the house I seriously doubt they would know if it were 16 lbs that burned or 25 lbs. Although insurance companies are scumbags that will spent thousands in order to prevent hundreds in payouts.
 
when I approached the local chief at a "meet the fire/police" type of town event and asked about it. He said he never issued one and was not even sure what if any penalties there where for being in violation of the regulations? another person with ear shot butted in and was all "OMG gunpowder,explosives and such" He laughed a little and told the women he was more worried about the plastics burning than gun powder or ammunition. He did say black powder was a true danger but more often than not black powder has most likely already touched off before we get there. He went on to say if your house is burning to the point where your worried about the gun powder ( if the source of the fire was not already in that direct area) your house most likely so far gone the powder when ignited will not do much more than "poof" ammo just pops like sap wood in a fire.
theres other codes that apply also NFPA495...have fun
 
andrew1220 said:
In my city (Gloucester) it seems to definitely be more trouble than anything. I pursued it a few years ago because my buddies brother is the fire inspector but he hadn’t heard of the regs and eventually reached out to some other city officials and that’s when I said F this! Don’t need to have some moonbat city official with a pole up their ass wanting to turn this into a big deal.

Lots of members here will tell you that your homeowners insurance won’t cover a fire if you don’t have a permit but no one has spoken from experience. I’m willing to take my chances.
Click to expand...

the best joke was the 1000 primer limit but i think that got changed.... not that anyone ever obeyed it anyways.
 
Getting the permit is a terrible hassle in my town, it means that I have to Email my fire chief and he or his deputy will Email me back with the PDF of the permit and ask me to drop a check off ($5.00) at the FD next time I'm in the area. /s

I've never had a hard time under 4 different fire chiefs by now.

The answer is that if a FD has no clue, that they should call the State Fire Marshal's Office since they generate the regs, not some other town official that would also be clueless. Apparently Gloucester lacks a professional fire department administration.
 
Mine is almost as easy as Len's. They mail me a renewal and tell me to sign it and send in a check. Last year they sent me the letter to renew but forgot the renewal form, so I called and asked them to send that and they just sent me the permit. Didn't ask for the money but I gave them a check for it anyway just to make sure it was legit and on the record. The first time I got the permit they cited the wrong section of the law on it and were essentially giving me a permit for the quantities that didn't require a permit lol. I was like yeah that doesn't really work and showed them the right section so they could fix it. I would much rather have it and not have to worry about the dirtbag insurance adjuster screwing me over if anything ever happened and I needed to make a claim. $25 is cheap peace of mind IMO.
 
if you decide to get a permit bring the table that shows the limits. The fire chief in my town never heard of the reg. However he was more than happy to give me the permut with no end date once I showed him the table.
 
Last edited:
One reason to get a permit is that the "...shall be stored in a locked cabinet..." clause doesn't apply if you have a permit.

That clause is under the "exempt quantities" section.

527 CMR 1.00 1.12.8.39.1.1.4(2) "Permits Not Required" is where the "locked cabinet" is specified.

there is no such requirement outside of that bit.
 
milktree said:
One reason to get a permit is that the "...shall be stored in a locked cabinet..." clause doesn't apply if you have a permit.

That clause is under the "exempt quantities" section.

527 CMR 1.00 1.12.8.39.1.1.4(2) "Permits Not Required" is where the "locked cabinet" is specified.

there is no such requirement outside of that bit.
Click to expand...

“1.12.8.39.1.1.4 Permits Not Required. Permits shall not be required for the following:

(1) For smokeless propellants displayed in commercial establishments intended for sale and not exceeding 25 lbs., and stored in original manufacturer’s containers of one lb. maximum capacity.
(2) Small arms ammunition, primers, smokeless propellants and black powder stored in original containers and stored in a locked cabinet, closet or box when not in use as provided in Section 1.12.8.50.
(3) Small arms ammunition, as used here, shall mean any shotgun, rifle, or pistol cartridge and any cartridge or propellant actuated devices, excluding military ammunition containing bursting charges or incendiary, tracer, spotting, or pyrotechnic projectiles.

I store all of my powder and primers in original containers and inside a locked plywood cabinet. So does that mean I’m covered and don’t need a permit?....Or am I misinterpreting those provisions?
 
Len-2A Training said:
Getting the permit is a terrible hassle in my town, it means that I have to Email my fire chief and he or his deputy will Email me back with the PDF of the permit and ask me to drop a check off ($5.00) at the FD next time I'm in the area. /s

I've never had a hard time under 4 different fire chiefs by now.

The answer is that if a FD has no clue, that they should call the State Fire Marshal's Office since they generate the regs, not some other town official that would also be clueless. Apparently Gloucester lacks a professional fire department administration.
Click to expand...
Wish it was that simple in my city. There have been some changes in the fire department since I last looked into the permit 3+ years ago. Maybe things have changed? Don’t know.
 
andrew1220 said:
Wish it was that simple in my city. There have been some changes in the fire department since I last looked into the permit 3+ years ago. Maybe things have changed? Don’t know.
Click to expand...
Searched through the Gloucester fire department website and found this chart. Maybe things have changed recently.
https://gloucester-ma.gov/DocumentCenter/View/5236

See chapter 69 on pages 6 and 7. Looks like they charge $50 for permit and $50 for an inspection?? Definitely don’t want an inspection.
Also if you have >48lbs of powder you need a license not a permit??
 
andrew1220 said:
Searched through the Gloucester fire department website and found this chart. Maybe things have changed recently.
https://gloucester-ma.gov/DocumentCenter/View/5236

See chapter 69 on pages 6 and 7. Looks like they charge $50 for permit and $50 for an inspection?? Definitely don’t want an inspection.
Also if you have >48lbs of powder you need a license not a permit??
Click to expand...

Just looked at it. It does not state the fee amount or if inspection is required which I highly doubt. Also does not state how long the permit is valid. I believe the fees you were looking at are for LP gas over 42lbs and over 10 gallons.
I'm in Gloucester also. I'll give the chief a call and ask what the deal is.
 
Last edited:
andrew1220 said:
“1.12.8.39.1.1.4 Permits Not Required. Permits shall not be required for the following:

(1) For smokeless propellants displayed in commercial establishments intended for sale and not exceeding 25 lbs., and stored in original manufacturer’s containers of one lb. maximum capacity.
(2) Small arms ammunition, primers, smokeless propellants and black powder stored in original containers and stored in a locked cabinet, closet or box when not in use as provided in Section 1.12.8.50.
(3) Small arms ammunition, as used here, shall mean any shotgun, rifle, or pistol cartridge and any cartridge or propellant actuated devices, excluding military ammunition containing bursting charges or incendiary, tracer, spotting, or pyrotechnic projectiles.

I store all of my powder and primers in original containers and inside a locked plywood cabinet. So does that mean I’m covered and don’t need a permit?....Or am I misinterpreting those provisions?
Click to expand...

Yes, assuming you have less powder and fewer primers than the limits.

If you get a permit, the limits go up and the "locked cabinet" requirement goes away.

andrew1220 said:
Searched through the Gloucester fire department website and found this chart. Maybe things have changed recently.
https://gloucester-ma.gov/DocumentCenter/View/5236

See chapter 69 on pages 6 and 7. Looks like they charge $50 for permit and $50 for an inspection?? Definitely don’t want an inspection.
Also if you have >48lbs of powder you need a license not a permit??
Click to expand...

I don't see any fee at all for powder/primer storage, and no mention of inspection. Pages 6 & 7?
 
Franko said:
If there were a substantial fire in the house I seriously doubt they would know if it were 16 lbs that burned or 25 lbs. Although insurance companies are scumbags that will spent thousands in order to prevent hundreds in payouts.
Click to expand...
I would tend to agree but they way the fire department investigates, i'd bet they could identify individual melted powder containers, but that's neither here or there.

primers, I stocked up during the component shortage. lets just say if I live to my life expectancy, i'll never need to buy another brick of primers again. of course if I do live longer I got a feeling i'll be strapped into my old man chair, drooling, waiting on the home care worker to come along and change my diaper and not really up to reloading any more.
 

Similar threads

Is a "blue card" needed to buy components (shot, powder, primers..) in Rhode Island
Replies
4
Views
146
T-Unit
T
Smokeless Powder / Best Shops In NE...
Replies
25
Views
601
Warm_Garand
W
R16 max limit for 6.5CM
Replies
11
Views
337
Broc
Broc
Dillon powder bar
Replies
8
Views
324
walter62
walter62
Rcbs turret.....anyone know how to mount a uniflow 3 powder drop on the turret?
Replies
0
Views
201
whacko
whacko
Back
Top Bottom