Posession of a firearm within a school zone.

[seanc]

I read the search warrant application to search a car parked on school grounds. The search warrant application was truthful, mentioned clearly visible gun paraphenalia, and the fact that the owner of the car had a valid LTC. The court should have ruled "While the presence of gun related items in the car suggests a gun contained therein, no evidence was presented that the subject carried it on his person on school groounds, therefore you have no evidence suggesting unlawful activity.". Instead, the court ruled "warrant granted".

And, when it got to court, the first thing the judge said was "Counsel, I do not want to hear anything about the validity of the warrant". The 269-10j was dropped, the case refiled as a storage case, and a 2 year CWOF issued.

So... that “Glock” sticker on the back window.. or a guns and ammo from 2 years ago you forgot about on the back seat/ floor is enough to justify a warrant? Ug.

But, what about this situation?

Lets say you drive through a school zone, where the road goes through the school property ( school bldg on either side of road) you are doing 20.25 mph and are pulled over in the zone. Are you screwed then? Is the road exempt?


Could be Tufts in grafton, all of Allston with BU.. large high schools...

 

[MisterHappy]

The road is not school property. It's a road.

 

[Lank]

I read the search warrant application to search a car parked on school grounds. The search warrant application was truthful, mentioned clearly visible gun paraphenalia, and the fact that the owner of the car had a valid LTC. The court should have ruled "While the presence of gun related items in the car suggests a gun contained therein, no evidence was presented that the subject carried it on his person on school groounds, therefore you have no evidence suggesting unlawful activity.". Instead, the court ruled "warrant granted".

And, when it got to court, the first thing the judge said was "Counsel, I do not want to hear anything about the validity of the warrant". The 269-10j was dropped, the case refiled as a storage case, and a 2 year CWOF issued.

Outrageous but not shocked. I would love to see what the paraphernalia was. Can search warrants be FOIA'd? I know that is not the right term but does this stuff ever see the light of day?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I would love to see what the paraphernalia was.

Empty shell casing (singular) on floor of car. Subject declined voluntary search.

 

[Lank]

I am not aware of convictions, but I am aware of cases in which prosecution was initiated. In one case, the "school grounds" charge was dropped once competent legal counsel got involved, the LTC returned, the case refiled as a "storage violation" (gun was in passenger compartment, not trunk), and resolved via a two year CWOF.

I believe that police departments willfully refuse to train in the nuances on this one.

When I took the Glidden gun law course, he explained it correctly, but did not pause to mention that carry not on ones person (what MA would call possession in a car trunk) was legal.

This is an example of why gun owners need to know nuances of the law. Tell the cop "I put the gun in the trunk before going into the kids school after parking in the school lot" and you've admitted to a crime. Tell him/her that you pulled off to the side of the road to do so before entering school property and you've laid the foundation for a good defense.

So does 2 year CWOF result in PP and no more LTC?

 

[seanc]

The road is not school property. It's a road.

So... where does the school start and the road stop?
Pull onto a grass shoulder?
A sidewalk?

Not trying to be difficult. Just trying to understand in a “school zone” where the school actually legally ends.

 

[CrackPot]

So... where does the school start and the road stop?
Pull onto a grass shoulder?
A sidewalk?

Not trying to be difficult. Just trying to understand in a “school zone” where the school actually legally ends.

The road a school is on wont be less than a 75ft right of way and possibly wider. So figure 37.5 feet from the center line minimum is not school property but town/state right of way.

 

[MAGA99]

I read the search warrant application to search a car parked on school grounds. The search warrant application was truthful, mentioned clearly visible gun paraphenalia, and the fact that the owner of the car had a valid LTC. The court should have ruled "While the presence of gun related items in the car suggests a gun contained therein, no evidence was presented that the subject carried it on his person on school groounds, therefore you have no evidence suggesting unlawful activity.". Instead, the court ruled "warrant granted".

And, when it got to court, the first thing the judge said was "Counsel, I do not want to hear anything about the validity of the warrant". The 269-10j was dropped, the case refiled as a storage case, and a 2 year CWOF issued.

The transgressions of that evil judge are the reason that the founders wrote the 2nd amendment.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The transgressions of that evil judge are the reason that the founders wrote the 2nd amendment.

I think it's more ignorance than evil. The ignorance would appear intentional, and based on "what they wish the law was".

Judges rarely deal with this nuance directly (it's generally sorted out in negotiation between defense counsel and prosecution), and there has never really been a case that brings this issue to the forefront at trial. The charge is generally dismissed, CWOFed, or dealt with as part of a different offense.

Even the SMC (supreme marsupial court) is not immune, mentioning in one of its decisions that possession of ammo on school property is illegal. Since this was not one of the charges in the case, it has the status of dicta rather than precedent (often seen as guiding, but not binding on lower courts)

 

[je25ff]

Well, I certainly think my original question has been answered...

 

[roccoracer]

What about if you have a pistol safe that can not be removed with a pistol in it, in the cab. (behind pasengers seat unloaded)
You get the call that you have to pick up your kid a.s.a.p. Where do you stand legally in this case if an l.e.o recognizes you as a gun owner and somehow gets a warrent and finds said pistol while parked at the school?
Do I need another safe for the magazines too?

 

[jayhitek]

What about if you have a pistol safe that can not be removed with a pistol in it, in the cab. (behind pasengers seat unloaded)
You get the call that you have to pick up your kid a.s.a.p. Where do you stand legally in this case if an l.e.o recognizes you as a gun owner and somehow gets a warrent and finds said pistol while parked at the school?
Do I need another safe for the magazines too?

Serious question. How long does it take to get a warrant? In the tv and movies it takes hours. But in the case above it happened within minutes it would seem..

 

[MAGA99]

I think it's more ignorance than evil. The ignorance would appear intentional, and based on "what they wish the law was".

Judges rarely deal with this nuance directly (it's generally sorted out in negotiation between defense counsel and prosecution), and there has never really been a case that brings this issue to the forefront at trial. The charge is generally dismissed, CWOFed, or dealt with as part of a different offense.

Even the SMC (supreme marsupial court) is not immune, mentioning in one of its decisions that possession of ammo on school property is illegal. Since this was not one of the charges in the case, it has the status of dicta rather than precedent (often seen as guiding, but not binding on lower courts)

I disagree. A judge should know the law, period. If they f*** up, there should be dire consequences as their f*** up affects people’s lives. Don’t want the responsibility? Don’t take the job. This is why I’m not a dr (well, among other reasons).

If you agree to take money to perform a job, do it wrong (due to incompetence/in other words willful negligence), and affect others lives in a negative way as a result, that makes you a bad person. When I’m president, these people will all be hung.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

So does 2 year CWOF result in PP and no more LTC?

Only during the time the CWOF is in effect. After that, it's in the realm of suitability (and not an issue at all in free states).

A CWOF offer, because of the expiring nature of the PP status, provides a powerful incentive for even the innocent to cop a plea. I was recently speaking to an attorney who advises OUI defendents concerned about gun rights to take the CWOF+24D even if they are clearly not guilty, as there is always a risk in going to trial.

But in the case above it happened within minutes it would seem..

In the case I am familiar with, the PD towed and impounded the car while they got a warrant.