Posession of a firearm within a school zone.

[je25ff]

So I bring and pick up my children at school and always leave all firearms at home but, after reading through the federal law, it says that it can be within the 1000ft zone if it is in a locked container. Is that the case in Massachusetts as well?

As far as I can tell, it says carry not possess in the MGL

Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer and notwithstanding any license obtained by the person pursuant to chapter 140, carries on the person a firearm, loaded or unloaded, or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of the elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than $1,000 or by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or both.

 

[ProGun]

IANAL, but believe the 1000 ft. zone doesn't apply if you have a permit issued by the state the school is located in, i.e., a MA LTC allows you to drive past schools while carrying, etc. Of course, you still can't carry on school property.

 

[tuna]

Not a lawyer either, but I also never took the Tide Pod Challenge - so I'm not that dumb.

I was under the impression that the parking lot was OK for a LTC holder.
**scenario - Get a call to pick up my kid in elementary school, I'm out and about and carrying. I'm legally OK to drive to the school, walk to the trunk, unholster, unload, and lock my pistol away, then go into the school to get my kid. Return to the car, unlock, load and reholster my pistol
Obviously, discretion is your friend in this situation.

 

[CrackPot]

I will pull up the MGL if needed but in summary, not quite right.

You can have your firearm unloaded and locked up in your car on school property. You cannot carry onto school property. You must disarm, unload and lock OFF school grounds and that means the parking lot also. Park on the street on a public way and not on school grounds when you disarm. Doing this in the school parking lot is in fact a violation of the law.

There are states that make pickup/drop-off while armed legal, but MA is not one of them.

Having your gun in a locked container and unloaded in your car while legal, is not proof against getting jammed up/arrested. Many officers believe no firearms on school property under any circumstances and will arrest and let things sort themselves out.

Not a lawyer either, but I also never took the Tide Pod Challenge - so I'm not that dumb.

I was under the impression that the parking lot was OK for a LTC holder.
**scenario - Get a call to pick up my kid in elementary school, I'm out and about and carrying. I'm legally OK to drive to the school, walk to the trunk, unholster, unload, and lock my pistol away, then go into the school to get my kid. Return to the car, unlock, load and reholster my pistol
Obviously, discretion is your friend in this situation.

 

[EMTDAD]

yeah.. this can be a real uncertainty given the school "complexes" that exist now... here in North:

 

[Drix]

I've always wondered how this applies to places like Cambridge. The entire city is practically a school zone.

 

[amm5061]

Not a lawyer either, but I also never took the Tide Pod Challenge - so I'm not that dumb.

I was under the impression that the parking lot was OK for a LTC holder.
**scenario - Get a call to pick up my kid in elementary school, I'm out and about and carrying. I'm legally OK to drive to the school, walk to the trunk, unholster, unload, and lock my pistol away, then go into the school to get my kid. Return to the car, unlock, load and reholster my pistol
Obviously, discretion is your friend in this situation.

IANAL, but this is my understanding as well.

 

[whacko]

To avoid all of this crap......when I pick my son up from school after practice......I park on the side street about a block down from the school and he walks there and gets in my truck. My son knows why!

 

[tuna]

Of course, if you ask the principal and get permission in writing you can just carry in the school like a law abiding citizen.











What? Stop laughing.

 

[whacko]

Of course, if you ask the principal and get permission in writing you can just carry in the school like a law abiding citizen.











What? Stop laughing.

 

[Len-2A Training]

IANAL, but believe the 1000 ft. zone doesn't apply if you have a permit issued by the state the school is located in, i.e., a MA LTC allows you to drive past schools while carrying, etc. Of course, you still can't carry on school property.

I will pull up the MGL if needed but in summary, not quite right.

You can have your firearm unloaded and locked up in your car on school property. You cannot carry onto school property. You must disarm, unload and lock OFF school grounds and that means the parking lot also. Park on the street on a public way and not on school grounds when you disarm. Doing this in the school parking lot is in fact a violation of the law.

There are states that make pickup/drop-off while armed legal, but MA is not one of them.

Having your gun in a locked container and unloaded in your car while legal, is not proof against getting jammed up/arrested. Many officers believe no firearms on school property under any circumstances and will arrest and let things sort themselves out.

You are both correct. And IIRC, Rob Boudrie has stated that he's aware of actual convictions for possession (not carry) in a MV on school grounds. Wouldn't surprise me if true in MA due to "it's guns" doctrine.

 

[CCW]

So I bring and pick up my children at school and always leave all firearms at home but, after reading through the federal law, it says that it can be within the 1000ft zone if it is in a locked container. Is that the case in Massachusetts as well?

As far as I can tell, it says carry not possess in the MGL

Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer and notwithstanding any license obtained by the person pursuant to chapter 140, carries on the person a firearm, loaded or unloaded, or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of the elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than $1,000 or by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or both.

If that 1000 foot buffer zone were enforced it could affect people carrying guns on their own property. My house for example...I don't know the distance exactly but it's close (if not there) to being within 1000 feet of a school.

 

[RImike]

Well apparently 92% of Bridgeport is a "school zone": Reaching too far: How Connecticut's large sentencing enhancement zones miss the mark | Prison Policy Initiative

 

[drgrant]

So I bring and pick up my children at school and always leave all firearms at home but, after reading through the federal law, it says that it can be within the 1000ft zone if it is in a locked container. Is that the case in Massachusetts as well?

GFSZ doesn't matter in MA (it's totally irrelevant) the problem in MA is MGL 269-10J and the fact that I doubt that any typical MA LEO is going to care about whether or not it was "on your person" until after the dust
settles. If you can pick them up on the street I'd do that instead, but most of these bullshit laden public schools probably don't even let the kids walk even that far, hell as it is for the kids that live down the street of
school theres probably an act of congress that has to get passed and the kid needs special permission packet just to be allowed to walk to school.....

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

If that 1000 foot buffer zone were enforced it could affect people carrying guns on their own property. I don't know the distance exactly but it's close (if not there) to being within 1000 feet of a school.

If this involved GFSZ I think there are carve outs for people that actually have their house located within that buffer zone, etc. That said, I must reiterate, at least in MA, none of this matters, because if you have an LTC, you are GFSZ exempt
anyways; and only MGL really matters. (which is worse, lol)

-Mike

 

[je25ff]

You are both correct. And IIRC, Rob Boudrie has stated that he's aware of actual convictions for possession (not carry) in a MV on school grounds. Wouldn't surprise me if true in MA due to "it's guns" doctrine.

How the hell can that be the case when the MGL literally only refers to carrying not possession? I can only imagine that it's legislation from the bench in those cases.

 

[amm5061]

How the hell can that be the case when the MGL literally only refers to carrying not possession? I can only imagine that it's legislation from the bench in those cases.

There's a reason they're called Massachusetts marsupial courts.

 

[AverageJoe]

Where in the Constitution does it allow for states to remove rights while on school grounds? Was at UMass E.R. in Worcester, they now have TSA style harassment of sick and injured people waiting to be checked in.

 

[JayCaliber]

I've always wondered how this applies to places like Cambridge. The entire city is practically a school zone.

I used to ponder this too as I lived around the corner from a school... But then again it's Cambridge so my LTC was restricted anyhow.

 

[TomMontana]

You are both correct. And IIRC, Rob Boudrie has stated that he's aware of actual convictions for possession (not carry) in a MV on school grounds. Wouldn't surprise me if true in MA due to "it's guns" doctrine.

Len or Rob, can you clarify if the person convicted "for possession (not carry) in a MV on school grounds" had a valid MA LTC? Some of the points in this thread state that it's okay to keep locked unloaded firearms in a car on school grounds, which leads me to assume that this is good to go as long if one has a valid LTC.

 

[Al-Jim19]

Of course, if you ask the principal and get permission in writing you can just carry in the school like a law abiding citizen.











What? Stop laughing.

I chuckled, but then...

Let’s say a teacher has a very good ~5 year relationship with the principal who he knows has an LTC. How would you guys go about broaching that topic?

An individual would want to inquire about this without the questionable aftermath in the event of a “no”.

 

[ProGun]

I chuckled, but then...

Let’s say a teacher has a very good ~5 year relationship with the principal who he knows has an LTC. How would you guys go about broaching that topic?

An individual would want to inquire about this without the questionable aftermath in the event of a “no”.

I'd think one would need to get that approved by the Superintendent, not a principal.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

You are both correct. And IIRC, Rob Boudrie has stated that he's aware of actual convictions for possession (not carry) in a MV on school grounds. Wouldn't surprise me if true in MA due to "it's guns" doctrine.

I am not aware of convictions, but I am aware of cases in which prosecution was initiated. In one case, the "school grounds" charge was dropped once competent legal counsel got involved, the LTC returned, the case refiled as a "storage violation" (gun was in passenger compartment, not trunk), and resolved via a two year CWOF.

I believe that police departments willfully refuse to train in the nuances on this one.

When I took the Glidden gun law course, he explained it correctly, but did not pause to mention that carry not on ones person (what MA would call possession in a car trunk) was legal.

This is an example of why gun owners need to know nuances of the law. Tell the cop "I put the gun in the trunk before going into the kids school after parking in the school lot" and you've admitted to a crime. Tell him/her that you pulled off to the side of the road to do so before entering school property and you've laid the foundation for a good defense.

 

[jayhitek]

Not a lawyer either, but I also never took the Tide Pod Challenge - so I'm not that dumb.

I was under the impression that the parking lot was OK for a LTC holder.
**scenario - Get a call to pick up my kid in elementary school, I'm out and about and carrying. I'm legally OK to drive to the school, walk to the trunk, unholster, unload, and lock my pistol away, then go into the school to get my kid. Return to the car, unlock, load and reholster my pistol
Obviously, discretion is your friend in this situation.

Can you imagine the look and reaction of some non gun friendly seeing you at the trunk of your car and taking off your holster and putting a gun in the trunk? Probably a call to the local swat team.

 

[tuna]

Same as open carry. Totally legal, you go first.

 

[Lank]

I am not aware of convictions, but I am aware of cases in which prosecution was initiated. In one case, the "school grounds" charge was dropped once competent legal counsel got involved, the LTC returned, the case refiled as a "storage violation" (gun was in passenger compartment, not trunk), and resolved via a two year CWOF.

I believe that police departments willfully refuse to train in the nuances on this one.

When I took the Glidden gun law course, he explained it correctly, but did not pause to mention that carry not on ones person (what MA would call possession in a car trunk) was legal.

This is an example of why gun owners need to know nuances of the law. Tell the cop "I put the gun in the trunk before going into the kids school after parking in the school lot" and you've admitted to a crime. Tell him/her that you pulled off to the side of the road to do so before entering school property and you've laid the foundation for a good defense.

I suggest that in this situation, not talking to the police period is the best move, right?

I mean if a cop wanted to toss my vehicle, and I lawfully (I don't agree w/the law) unloaded and locked up my pistol off school grounds (of course) before he violated my privacy, and ordered a search warrant to get into my lock box (and he will get it because maybe gunz), that would be the foundation of a good defense?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

ordered a search warrant to get into my lock box

I read the search warrant application to search a car parked on school grounds. The search warrant application was truthful, mentioned clearly visible gun paraphenalia, and the fact that the owner of the car had a valid LTC. The court should have ruled "While the presence of gun related items in the car suggests a gun contained therein, no evidence was presented that the subject carried it on his person on school groounds, therefore you have no evidence suggesting unlawful activity.". Instead, the court ruled "warrant granted".

And, when it got to court, the first thing the judge said was "Counsel, I do not want to hear anything about the validity of the warrant". The 269-10j was dropped, the case refiled as a storage case, and a 2 year CWOF issued.

 

[je25ff]

I can't believe a search warrant was issued because of gun stickers (I suppose an NRA sticker and others) and the warrant was upheld. Hell, the first amendment is even violated here.

 

[firestorm]

I can't believe a search warrant was issued because of gun stickers (I suppose an NRA sticker and others) and the warrant was upheld. Hell, the first amendment is even violated here.

Mass courts have a "But guns" exception to your constitutional protections. But it's ok, the SJC of mass says that your rights weren't violated since the 2nd doesn't apply in mass.

 

[Dennis in MA]

IANAL, but believe the 1000 ft. zone doesn't apply if you have a permit issued by the state the school is located in, i.e., a MA LTC allows you to drive past schools while carrying, etc. Of course, you still can't carry on school property.

At one time, I was on the board, then board chair for my local pvt school. That was nice.

Funnier still - it was a church-sponsored school. Carry to church?????? I'd say NAY on that. Still school property.

I've always wondered how this applies to places like Cambridge. The entire city is practically a school zone.

I'm 100% "No sir, this is my home. No matter what, you cannot drag me away." type of person. But Cambridge is it's own special form of stupid. I'd run, not walk, away from it if I lived there. It isn't JUST the over-liberalization. It's the middle-school "come at me, brah!" attitude of these people. They WANT to argue and fight. Life's too short.