Polish Tokarev pistols C&R?

[SKS Ray]

The Polish Tokarev pistols that are out there now are being offered by a few dealers as C&R.
I always heard that because they have an added safety that they're not C&R. Whats the deal with these?

 

[vellnueve]

Who offers em? PM me. I've seen the Romanians that have the added safety I think, but not Polish.

 

[kingson]

They should be C&R if they are over 50 years old. I got one that is dated 1948 and I bought it C&R (I did get it from a gun shop).

 

[SKS Ray]

I know the Romanian ones aren't because they had safeties added to them which altered the original state of the gun. The Polish ones I see have a safety too, thats why I'm confused.
I'd hate to buy something labeled as C&R and get it only to find out later that its not. I don't know what the deal is with a situation like that, I'm guessing loss of the buyer's FFL at least.

 

[kingson]

I have seen Romanian one sold as C&R because they are over 50 years old. I believe that original configuration of the gun applies to guns that are C&R that are under 50 years old. If you alter one of those then it wouldn't be original anymore and so it wouldn't qualifiy as C&R. The regs say that if it is over 50 years old than it is C&R.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/curios/intro.htm

"As set out in the regulations (27 CFR 178.11), curios or relics include firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1.) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;
2.) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
3.) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less."

 

[Wildweasel]

I would think the dealer is going to have a lot more problems with the atf then the buyer.
if they are willing to ship them as a c+r then I wouldn't worry about it. if you are and want one of them call the atf and ask.

 

[vellnueve]

I don't agree. A FFL, even a C&R FFL, is responsible for making sure they stay within the law and within the limits set for them.

 

[Len-2A Training]

BATFE previously ruled on "what if a gun sold as C&R is determined NOT to be". I do not have a cite (check the Q&As?), but here's what I recall (fuzzy memory: caution may not be correct).

They wanted you (C&R FFL) to take the gun to an 01 FFL and do a transfer to clear the situation up.

PROBLEM is that with MA EOPS List, the gun would NOT be able to be transfered by an FFL to the C&R holder without some "creative thinking". [Hint for casual observer: NO C&Rs are on EOPS List as it requires mfr to have 4 or 5 NEW samples destroyed for testing.]

To answer the more immediate question of "whether adding a safety changes the C&R status", I have to plead ignorance. I really don't know and the only way to find out for certain is send a query with detailed question to BATFE Technical Branch in DC for a ruling.

 

[SKS Ray]

To answer the more immediate question of "whether adding a safety changes the C&R status", I have to plead ignorance. I really don't know and the only way to find out for certain is send a query with detailed question to BATFE Technical Branch in DC for a ruling.

Thanks Len. Now the question is do I want one bad enough to contact the BATFE and ask if I can get one. Feels like I'm asking Mom and Dad all over again for something.

 

[madmarc0]

Don't ask, don't tell. It works for the army!!

 

[Carguy]

How about just removing the saftey, then it is in it's original form again. Can that be done? If so then it doesn't matter whether or not you remove it as it can be removed to "restore" the weapon in question to it's original C&R status.

OR

Buythe darn thing. Just like the Bass Pro Shop recently selling non-eops handguns all the state can do is ask the purchaser to return them...the seller is the party in trouble. If indeed the ATF were to ever audit your bound book then the date in the doc would continue to be over 50 years old anyways. And the worse case scenario would be that the ATF would ask you to go through an FFL, as stated, and I'm sure you could find a friend in NH that would buy it from you through a Mass FFL and "fix" the problem.

I love everything made at the Radom plant and would love to grab one if I had the spare cash...don't forget the holidays are coming and I just had my first heating oil fill up...$715...thank goodness I have plenty of ammo as I won't be buying too much of anything until after the first of the year.